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Topic: Off Topic Jersey Numbers.
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/18/2013 1:25 PM
hawaiian bobcat wrote:expand_more
I thought you check the facts and said 105 now it is 115?  Strange.  Yes I do tell a recruit 7 is taken and he can wait for it.  The fact he is part of Ohio football is privilege enough.  If you want number 7 earn it through hard work.  The purpose of numbers is to distinguish players from one another.  Having a number 7 on both offense and defense can be confusing for an observer not close to the team.  


I told you to check the facts and that in August the team brought in 105 players, and when school began they added even more.  Here is my exact statement. 

"You had better check your facts, in August you bring 105 players, and you only have 99 numbers, and I believe OHIO only has 98 numbers. Then when school begins your roster expands even more. As for dressing, you have travel limits for league games only and can dress as many as you want at home"
Last Edited: 9/18/2013 1:28:09 PM by BillyTheCat
L.C.
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Posted: 9/18/2013 2:55 PM
Billy is right here. You can have 85 players on scholarship at any one time. You can have 105 players in fall camp. You can have as many players as you want when school is in session, but note, however, that if you have 150 players on the football team, there must be an offsetting 150 women's players on various women's teams, per Title IX. Thus, the two real upside limits on the size of the team when school is in session are the number of qualified walkons, and the number of women in women's sports. Thus the Ohio team tends to cap out at about 110-120 players.

When you are on the road, there is a separate limit, established by the league for the number of players that can go to league games, which may be about 60, I'm not sure. The league may or may not establish road limits for OOC games, too, usually a bit higher, say 75.
Last Edited: 9/18/2013 2:56:39 PM by L.C.
Hawaiian Bobcat
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Posted: 9/18/2013 3:29 PM
LC,
How many players does Ohio usually dress for home football games?

Billy,
You certainly are feisty.  I started this post as an observation and opinion about irregular and duplicate numbers.  I am not a fan.  I think it can and should be avoided in most cases.  A regular football game should not have a team that consistently fields the same number on both sides of the ball.  It can confuse the casual fan.  Case in point last season Notre Dame's starting quarterback (Golson) and starting linebacker (Teo) both wore number #5.  I constantly heard casual fans following local boy Teo's career question what the hell he was doing playing quarterback.  Someone with more knowledge informed the confused fan.  9 times out of 10 the response to the explanation was something along the lines of being stupid. Other sports do not have this problem.  I understand that there are not enough numbers to go around.  If the 7th string DB wants number 7 that is shared by the 1st string quarterback so be it.  The chances of both players consistently being on the field  through out of  the game are slim to none.  You disagree with my opinion so be it. Red bold face type is so unnecessary.  I don't have time with my career, family, and working on my horrendous golf game to look up facts about numbers and roster size with the NCAA.  Thanks for the informative information.  I stand by my opinion that it can and should be avoided.  I also understand everyone has an opinion and something else.  Thanks again for you insight.  Aloha.
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 9/18/2013 3:56 PM
Just to blow your minds on the whole number thing.  In my lifetime, it was routine for basketball teams to assign even numbers to home jerseys and odd numbers to road jerseys for the same guy.  For example, I'm 22 at home and 23 on the road.  Imagine the royalties if Jordan could sell jerseys numbered 22, 23, 6 and 7 (and 44 and 45?).  What a marketing opportunity lost.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/18/2013 4:29 PM
hawaiian bobcat wrote:expand_more
LC,
How many players does Ohio usually dress for home football games?

Billy,
You certainly are feisty.  I started this post as an observation and opinion about irregular and duplicate numbers.  I am not a fan.  I think it can and should be avoided in most cases.  A regular football game should not have a team that consistently fields the same number on both sides of the ball.  It can confuse the casual fan.  Case in point last season Notre Dame's starting quarterback (Golson) and starting linebacker (Teo) both wore number #5.  I constantly heard casual fans following local boy Teo's career question what the hell he was doing playing quarterback.  Someone with more knowledge informed the confused fan.  9 times out of 10 the response to the explanation was something along the lines of being stupid. Other sports do not have this problem.  I understand that there are not enough numbers to go around.  If the 7th string DB wants number 7 that is shared by the 1st string quarterback so be it.  The chances of both players consistently being on the field  through out of  the game are slim to none.  You disagree with my opinion so be it. Red bold face type is so unnecessary.  I don't have time with my career, family, and working on my horrendous golf game to look up facts about numbers and roster size with the NCAA.  Thanks for the informative information.  I stand by my opinion that it can and should be avoided.  I also understand everyone has an opinion and something else.  Thanks again for you insight.  Aloha.


I do not have issue with your opinion, but you incorrectly stated my original post, the Red was simply pointing out what I specifically stated.  The entire issue comes down to coaching philosophy, Kent State a few years ago had three kids wearing the same number and two of them were starters, Coach Peas was a firm believer in allowing kids to wear whatever number they wanted, same with coach Kelly at ND.  Some I am sure have the same philosophy as you, but the logistics of such would be a nightmare when you have injuries and replace players on the travel roster.  And then you have real confusion as the media people would have to make number changes to the roster and update information on media releases, parents would not know what jersey to order of their kid and so forth.  Then you have the issue of the names being on the jersey's swapping them out on a moments notice could not be easy, especially if they are placed directly on the jersey, which I am not sure how OHIO does their names.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/18/2013 4:49 PM
hawaiian bobcat, I would guess that they normally dress about 110 players for home games. Of those, probably 15-20 are redshirting, though, so in theory you might be able to largely avoid duplicate numbers, however the numbers that are assigned may not work out that way. Also, regarding a place like Notre Dame, they may have a complicating factor - Some schools have a ill-guided practice of 'retiring the number' of things like Heisman Trophy winners, and never using it again. Some schools may have 5-10 numbers that have been retired, and thus have only ~90 numbers available.

You get a penalty for having two players on the field at the same time, so they try to assign numbers in a way that minimizes the chance of that happening, as in, they use one for an offensive player, and one for a defensive player, usually both reserve players. Current duplicates and unused numbers on the Ohio Roster:

1 - unused number
2 - Jamil Shaw CB (SR), Skyler Schwarzel WR (Freshman walkon, redshirting)
3 - Donte Foster WR (Sr), Leon Alexander S (Freshman, redshirting)
5 - Jarid Brown CB (Freshman, redshirting), Malik Rodriguez WR (Freshman)
7 - Shawn Harris CB (Freshman, redshirting), Daz Patterson RB (So)
9 - Kristoff S (Jr), Leffingwell QB (freshman, redshirting)
11 - Troy Hill TE (Sr), Cedric Brown WR (freshman, redshirting)
12 - Calvin Holloway S (FR), Jordan Reid Wr (Fr)
18 - Travis Carrie CB (Sr), J.D. Sprague QB (Fr)
20 - Ryan Boykin RB (Sr), Dyquan Stewart (Fr)
23 - Xavier Hughes S (Sr), Jake Johnson WR (Freshman, redshirting)
25 - Max Corcoran WR (Freshman, redshirting), Thad Ingol S (Jr)
28 - Dorian Brown RB (Freshman, redshirting), Randy Stites WR (So)
31 - Matt Amicone K (Fr), Tim Edmond RB (Jr)
39 - Cody Grillot LB (Fr redshirting), Jos Yazdani K (So)
42 - James Ray S (Jr), Blake Scipio DB (So)
46 - Matt Green K (Sr), Chad Moore LB (Freshman, redshirting)
48 - Zane Summers LB (Jr), Grant Venham P (So)
49 - Alex Asher TE (Sr), Davon Donovon LB (Fr)
54 - Tony Porter DT (Fr, redshirting), Lucas Powell C (So)
58 - Seth Everhart LG (So), Jerry WIlliams DL (Freshman, redshirting)
61 - unused
62 - unused
76 - unused
77 - unused
88 - usused

There are 20 duplicate pairs, and 6 unused numbers, which implies 113 numbers in use. It looks to me like there are enough linemen numbers to avoid re-using those, but not enough numbers for backs, so those get re-used a lot. They have tried to assign one to a freshmen who is redshirting, and one to an active player to reduce the numbers actually in duplicate use. Beyond that, they try to have one on offense, one on defense. Once you drop out the pairs that include someone redshirting, these are really the only potential conflicts:

2 - Calvin Holloway S (FR), Jordan Reid Wr (Fr)
Reid plays regularly on offense, Holloway is a reserve, and hasn't played yet. Even if he did, the chance of a conflict is very low

18 - Travis Carrie CB (Sr), J.D. Sprague QB (Fr)
Carrie is a starter, Sprague is the 3rd string QB. Both may play against Peay, but not at the same time.

20 - Ryan Boykin RB (Sr), Dyquan Stewart (Fr)
Both of these play. Since one is on offense, one on defense, it should be ok.

31 - Matt Amicone K (Fr), Tim Edmond RB (Jr)
Edmond has played on the placekicking team (remember, he caught a pass on a fake). If Amicone gets used as the kicker, there is a high chance of a problem here.

42 - James Ray S (Jr), Blake Scipio DB (So)
Ray did play some last year, and Scipio normally plays. With both of these being DBs, I can see a potential for a problem here. Since Scipio is out with an injury, it may not be a problem for now, but could be later.

48 - Zane Summers LB (Jr), Grant Venham P (So)
Summers has never played. This should not be a problem as he wouldn't be on the punting team, anyway.

49 - Alex Asher TE (Sr), Davon Donovon LB (Fr)
Neither have ever played. Also, one is offense, one is defense, so little chance of a problem.
Last Edited: 9/18/2013 4:55:19 PM by L.C.
The Pessimist
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Posted: 9/18/2013 7:42 PM
In related news...

Cal vs OhSU

Cal sent their QB out with the punt squad in punt formation.  The QB and the punter both wear the same number.

He threw a strike and converted for first down.

They were strategerizing that one since the preseason.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/18/2013 9:11 PM
An easy solution to this vexing problem: Allow three digits numbers.  Might have to change the font size just a little on the three digit numbers, but they could still be made quite readable.   The three digit numbers could be used primarily for third and fourth stringers.  Some might object to making the pecking order quite so easy to identify, but overall it would seem like a good idea to me.  
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/18/2013 10:15 PM
Would be too hard on officials on the catching and reporting numbers. Also have to retool the rule book on what eligible numbers would be.
Hawaiian Bobcat
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:03 AM
The Pessimist wrote:expand_more
In related news...

Cal vs OhSU

Cal sent their QB out with the punt squad in punt formation.  The QB and the punter both wear the same number.

He threw a strike and converted for first down.

They were strategerizing that one since the preseason.


This is exactly why I think duplicate numbers are a problem.  This was not gamesmanship by CAL, it was a bush league trick.  Could you imagine if Ohio got burned on a play like this and if that play directly effected the outcome of the game.  People would be up in arms.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:48 AM
Cal's play was perfectly legal and is a part of the game. Every staff has a coach who is in charge of watching the personnel of the opponent, not to mention this tidbit should have been on the scouting report.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 1:07 AM
Yes, it's legal. Yes it's bush league.

Note that Ohio has a better option, a player that is both a QB and a punter, Derrius Vick. Marshall learned first hand that he can do both when he led a drive, then quick-kicked.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/19/2013 2:04 AM
This discussion bores me...numbers--really?

But LC's list of 13 freshmen who are redshirting intrigues.  I bet there's some talent there that'll make a definite mark starting next year.
L.C.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 8:30 AM
There are more freshmen than that redshirting. Those are just the ones with duplicate numbers. When there are duplicates, but one is redshirting, there is no chance of having both players on the field at the same time.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 9/20/2013 2:55 AM
I think this year is gonn' be fun.

With the crowd of redshirts and the way that this year's recruit class is shaping up, fun should continue next year..and subsequent.
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