Ohio Football Topic
Topic: That Safety
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Mike Coleman
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Posted: 11/5/2013 11:52 PM
Actually, the WUSS was looking at the play.

Mike Coleman
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Posted: 11/5/2013 11:55 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Guys, I hated the call and the 9 points it gave Buffs.  But, they beat the shit out of us.  We completely lost focus after that.  Needed to come out the second half and score immediately.  that sure didnt' happen.  End of story.

 


it soon becomes obvious you aren't getting a chance. I am not one for conspiracy theories, but this one smells funny.

In baseball and basketball, managers and coaches will get tossed to turn things around. I am wondering if that didn't cross Frank's mind.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/5/2013 11:58 PM
The other thing not even being discussed: there was a receiver in the vicinity of that pass.
C Money
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Posted: 11/6/2013 12:46 AM
From Arkley's twitter:
McCabe "I had looked down and the (QB) was about eight yards deep in the (EZ), and so I thought he had thrown the ball from the end zone."

1000 words wrote:expand_more
 





He looks down, after the play, and T^2 is 8 yards deep in the end zone. Yet the picture above shows him LOOKING RIGHT AT THE QUARTERBACK AS THE BALL IS THROWN AND THE QUARTERBACK IS 4 YARDS OUTSIDE THE END ZONE, AND HE HIMSELF IS 2 YARDS OUTSIDE THE END ZONE.

MAC Refs: We really do just make this stuff up as we go along!
DallasCat
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Posted: 11/6/2013 3:12 AM
He watches TT release then turns to make sure he doesn't get hit. Horrible. If this guy doesn't get fired or at least fined the MAC sucks.

Last Edited: 11/6/2013 3:16:03 AM by DallasCat
GoCats105
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:10 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
I've considered it and -- aside from Colorado's 5th Down -- It truly is the worst call I've ever seen.


I said the same thing during the game.

The entire game was poorly officiated. This was the cherry on top, and it was a big frickin' cherry.
GoCats105
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:11 AM
This is one of those times where Frank should complain about the officiating and should get fined by the MAC office. But the MAC office should also look into making a formal apology and suspending the crew.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:24 AM
In the paper this morning, the official admits that he blew the call, but stood by the fact that straight from the NCAA case book the play was not reviewable, citing the exact rule I placed on the board last night.  At least the guy made a standup statement and took accountability.
Bobcat110
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:37 AM
It was horrible call and wrong that there's no room in a rule book to correct a horrible call.

But,even if the call was corrected, we still would've been punting from deep in our endzone and giving Buffalo awesome field position.  We didn't come close to holding them in second half or close to our offense scoring.  I am far more disappointed we've taken ourselves out of the MAC race with 3 games remaining.
 
OUVan
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Posted: 11/6/2013 8:59 AM
JSCOTT wrote:expand_more
I've watched the replay a dozen times. The Ref was looking right at Tettleton. How could he blow it that bad. We aren't talking about the one foot or one yard line. He threw the ball at the 3 or 4 yard line. Wow!


I think he probably wasn't thinking about intentional grounding at the time. He is probably looking to make sure he's not roughed.    If we had lost by a touchdown I'd be more upset but we essentially quit playing after that.  That's why we lost.  The Beefs punched us in the mouth (while we were pouting about the refs) and we just stood there and took it.

That being said, those refs should be suspended and not just for those two calls. There were horrible offensive pass interference calls on both sides.  There was one ref who kept marking the ball a full half yard shorter than the guy on the other side. 

Again, we didn't lose because of the refs (we lost because of the Beefs and ourselves) but they shouldn't be doing any more games.
C Money
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Posted: 11/6/2013 9:32 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
In the paper this morning, the official admits that he blew the call, but stood by the fact that straight from the NCAA case book the play was not reviewable, citing the exact rule I placed on the board last night.  At least the guy made a standup statement and took accountability.


(a) The only way it isn't reviewable is if it is determined not to be egregious. That is the point of Rule 12, Section 3, Article 6. That it involved a penalty is not material; no one is saying challenge the penalty, they're saying challenge the spot of the throw. That is part of the play. See here, "Play Situations" ## 62, 70, which state that intentional grounding isn't reviewable (in accordance with the general rule you and the ref cite), and then compare with "Play Situations" #113, which states that replay can review a play under 12-3-6 to correct an egregious error even when a penalty is involved. You aren't challenging whether there is a penalty. You're challenging the egregious ruling on the play--the spot of the throw.

If that wasn't an egregious error, I don't know what is.

(b) Even after the original bad call, it doesn't take replay to correct the error. It takes the crew huddling up and saying, "He wasn't in the end zone when the ball left his hand." I have a very difficult time believing that not a single one of the other members of the ref crew couldn't see where the throw happened, even at the field level. And even if they couldn't, you huddle up (to see if anyone saw it), then go talk to the replay booth (who tells you that you botched the call), then go huddle up again (and confess you really screwed up and ask again if anyone on the field saw the play), and then get on the mic and say, "After conferring with each other, the crew has determined that the foul occurred on the 4 yard line. 4th Down, Ohio."

(c) It wasn't just this one really really really bad call. It was bad all night. The Waters non-fumble is the obvious one, but some of the really ticky-tack PI calls (both ways) stuck out as well. The entire point of midweek MACtion is to get the conference some national exposure. Ridiculous crap like the refereeing kinda defeats that purpose and makes the MAC look like a clown conference.
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Posted: 11/6/2013 9:48 AM
C Money wrote:expand_more
In the paper this morning, the official admits that he blew the call, but stood by the fact that straight from the NCAA case book the play was not reviewable, citing the exact rule I placed on the board last night.  At least the guy made a standup statement and took accountability.


(a) The only way it isn't reviewable is if it is determined not to be egregious. That is the point of Rule 12, Section 3, Article 6. That it involved a penalty is not material; no one is saying challenge the penalty, they're saying challenge the spot of the throw. That is part of the play. See here, "Play Situations" ## 62, 70, which state that intentional grounding isn't reviewable (in accordance with the general rule you and the ref cite), and then compare with "Play Situations" #113, which states that replay can review a play under 12-3-6 to correct an egregious error even when a penalty is involved. You aren't challenging whether there is a penalty. You're challenging the egregious ruling on the play--the spot of the throw.

If that wasn't an egregious error, I don't know what is.

(b) Even after the original bad call, it doesn't take replay to correct the error. It takes the crew huddling up and saying, "He wasn't in the end zone when the ball left his hand." I have a very difficult time believing that not a single one of the other members of the ref crew couldn't see where the throw happened, even at the field level. And even if they couldn't, you huddle up (to see if anyone saw it), then go talk to the replay booth (who tells you that you botched the call), then go huddle up again (and confess you really screwed up and ask again if anyone on the field saw the play), and then get on the mic and say, "After conferring with each other, the crew has determined that the foul occurred on the 4 yard line. 4th Down, Ohio."

(c) It wasn't just this one really really really bad call. It was bad all night. The Waters non-fumble is the obvious one, but some of the really ticky-tack PI calls (both ways) stuck out as well. The entire point of midweek MACtion is to get the conference some national exposure. Ridiculous crap like the refereeing kinda defeats that purpose and makes the MAC look like a clown conference.


Each member of a 7 member crew has things they are responsible to watch for.  The R has the backfield and the QB.  In this particlular play when TT went running backwards 20+ yards the R is on an island.  The HL and LJ are watching the LOS and the play immediately in front of them.  In fact the penalty of grounding is thrown by the R after conferences with the LJ (in this situation) that there were no recievers in the area or in this case an attempt to get rid of the ball did not reach the LOS.  Only the R in this case has the spot of the foul, none of the other 6 should be looking in there.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 11/6/2013 9:56 AM
Most replays only show where TT was when he released the ball. However, one shows an Ohio receiver in the vicinity of where the pass ended up landing. Is it possible TT shouldn't have been called for intentional grounding in the first place?

I'm sure BillyTheCat (Wayne H.?) will shoot down this theory as well.
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 9:56:32 AM by bobcatsquared
C Money
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Posted: 11/6/2013 10:06 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Each member of a 7 member crew has things they are responsible to watch for.  The R has the backfield and the QB.  In this particlular play when TT went running backwards 20+ yards the R is on an island.  The HL and LJ are watching the LOS and the play immediately in front of them.  In fact the penalty of grounding is thrown by the R after conferences with the LJ (in this situation) that there were no recievers in the area or in this case an attempt to get rid of the ball did not reach the LOS.  Only the R in this case has the spot of the foul, none of the other 6 should be looking in there.


I think here the R threw the flag and ruled safety before conferencing with the others (if the video shows otherwise, I'll stand corrected). And besides, what you're basically saying is that of the 12,000 people in the stadium, the only people who didn't see where the ball was thrown from was the ref crew. And the one ref who undeniably had an unobstructed view of action happening 8 feet in front of him was apparently too distracted by thinking about his Christmas shopping list during the play to actually follow what was happening on the field decided after the play was over that, hey, the QB is 8 yards deep now that the play is over, musta been a safety NOPE CAN'T REVIEW AWW MY BAD SHUCKS RULE BOOK RULE BOOK RULE BOOK SHUT UP I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT ONE RULE I JUST CARE ABOUT THIS OTHER RULE LALALALALALALA.

And we put this clown show in front of a national TV audience.
PalmerFest
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Posted: 11/6/2013 10:27 AM
Currently highlighted on Yahoo! home page under the title:

"Worst Football Call Ever?"
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/6/2013 10:31 AM
Read the article in today's paper, the Referee clearly and undoubtedly takes 100% blame for the call, as the spot of that foul was his and only his to make.  He also explains how he missed it.  As for when the flag comes out, you can see the LJ hustling back to the R to inform him the throw did not make the LOS, and then the flag came down. 

Please do not take me wrong, I am not making excuses, just trying to explain the mechanics and who was responsible.  And you cannot play the what if game, because we may have had a punt blocked from deep in our own endzone.  Buffalo almost got the 1st one of the day and would have undoubtedly brought the house in a 7-3 game punting out of a short formation.
mf279801
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Posted: 11/6/2013 10:44 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Read the article in today's paper, the Referee clearly and undoubtedly takes 100% blame for the call, as the spot of that foul was his and only his to make.  He also explains how he missed it.  As for when the flag comes out, you can see the LJ hustling back to the R to inform him the throw did not make the LOS, and then the flag came down. 


Big of him to take the blame for blowing the call, after he royally screwed the pooch. Now he should think about finding an alternative occupation. Like ditch digger, or fluffer, or the guy who puts the apple on his head for trick shot competitions (I'd suggest he start out as an apple holder for the real amateurs, let him try to work his way up to the people who are actually good shots)

That play didn't cost us the game in and of itself, but it sure didn't help (either on the actual game situation or the momentum/spirit/moral/effort for our team)

Edited to include and additional alternative occupation
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 10:46:33 AM by mf279801
PhiTau74
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Posted: 11/6/2013 11:23 AM
The answer is don't run backwards 23 yards. Bad call by the ref and a worse decision by the QB. When was the last time you saw a college QB run backwards 23 yards, I have not even seen that in Peewee league.

So its 4th down and we punt from the back line of the end zone, Buffalo probably starts on our 30 if were lucky.
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 11:25:24 AM by PhiTau74
cbarber357
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Posted: 11/6/2013 11:28 AM
Page #5 of the NCAA rule book: Any call that is egregious in nature is reviewable and can be overturned after a review.

This WAS reviewable and should have been overturned. Lets not forget the clear knee down on the Matt Waters "fumble"


 
cbarber357
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Posted: 11/6/2013 11:36 AM
to clarify, the penalty is not reviewable, but the spot is
Maryland Bobcat
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Posted: 11/6/2013 11:52 AM
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
The other thing not even being discussed: there was a receiver in the vicinity of that pass.


I wondered about this, as well.  When they first tossed the flag I was upset because there was a receiver clearly within a couple yards of that pass.  Isn't that the first filter for whether it is intentional grounding or not?

All-around a horribly-officiated game both ways.  The MAC should be embarrassed that was on national tv.  
 
Pataskala
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Posted: 11/6/2013 12:05 PM
Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
The other thing not even being discussed: there was a receiver in the vicinity of that pass.


I wondered about this, as well.  When they first tossed the flag I was upset because there was a receiver clearly within a couple yards of that pass.  Isn't that the first filter for whether it is intentional grounding or not?

All-around a horribly-officiated game both ways.  The MAC should be embarrassed that was on national tv.  
 


If you look at the replay on ESPN (you'll have to scroll down the playlist to get it), the ball went out of bounds around the 20 and Dovell is at the same sideline around the 25.  That is usually enough for "vicinity" and that part of it at least should've been reviewable.
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 12:06:52 PM by Pataskala
Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/6/2013 1:22 PM
I wonder who tipped them off about this play :-)

http://deadspin.com/this-is-one-of-the-worst-blown-calls-... 
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 1:22:20 PM by Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/6/2013 3:03 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Guys, I hated the call and the 9 points it gave Buffs.  But, they beat the shit out of us.  We completely lost focus after that.  Needed to come out the second half and score immediately.  that sure didnt' happen.  End of story.

It was a hard fought game, by both teams, but on the whole, Buffalo was winning in the trenches, which was why they were leading 7-3, and why they probably would have won anyway. That doesn't change things that this was one of the worst calls I have ever seen. I thought it was a joke, and when they went to review it, I thought, "well, that one will get overturned instantly".  There is something seriously wrong if a call this bad can't be fixed by replay, because there can't be one person looking at the replay that thinks the call was correct.
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Posted: 11/6/2013 3:26 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Guys, I hated the call and the 9 points it gave Buffs.  But, they beat the shit out of us.  We completely lost focus after that.  Needed to come out the second half and score immediately.  that sure didnt' happen.  End of story.

It was a hard fought game, by both teams, but on the whole, Buffalo was winning in the trenches, which was why they were leading 7-3, and why they probably would have won anyway. That doesn't change things that this was one of the worst calls I have ever seen. I thought it was a joke, and when they went to review it, I thought, "well, that one will get overturned instantly".  There is something seriously wrong if a call this bad can't be fixed by replay, because there can't be one person looking at the replay that thinks the call was correct.


Hey they were only leading 7-3 because of a bogus fumble call while we were deep in their territory.  I don't think people understand how big that call was, especially combined with the safety.  The momentum in that drive we had probably gets us 7 if not at least 3 points.  Let's say they respond well and score a TD on their next drive, we followed that with our own FG.  So the game should have been 7-6 Buff or 10-7 OHIO.  Let's guess best case scenario for both teams is that its 10-7 OHIO at half, in the 2nd half say we punt (no safety) and they score.  It's only 14-10 Buff then and in no way are our guy's heads in the wrong place due to the officiating (not saying its a good excuse but it probably made an impact).  Plus you could argue we should have had another 3 or 7 points earlier in the game on the ticky tack pass interference on Waters.  Again there was a similar call against Buff so mabye that evens out, maybe.  In any case we don't lose 30-3 without the mistakes made in this game by the officials.
Last Edited: 11/6/2013 3:27:31 PM by sargentfan
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