Ohio Football Topic
Topic: It's Not Frank
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/21/2013 12:05 AM
The Situation wrote:expand_more

Situation--do you read my posts at all?  Above you write as if someone's asking Coach to change what has happened.  No, it's about doing some different stuff on offense and defense in upcoming games--in situatons which one can control.

How often do I have to write hurry up offense, two back sets, screen passes, blitzes, etc, etc. before you get that I'm making simple, reasonable suggestions on how to change?  Your absolute unwillingness to get that point...well, it parallels our play in the last three games.

I come here significantly for interesting, vigorous intellectual debate.  Why don't you try being at that level instead of 100%, absolute, never changing apologist support of the coaching despite the recent poor play.

Monroe, I read your posts. The overwhelming majority make my skin crawl.  

Lets break down the logic of this issue:

1. Do you believe this team is capable of beating Kent State based on Frank Solich's average coaching approach?
a. Yes (Continue to 2)

b. No (Fire Frank Solich)

2. Do you believe Frank Solich's game plan was representative of his average approach throughout his career?

a. Yes (Continue to 3)
b. No (Blame Coach)

3. Do you believe Frank Solich's average approach is enough to win a MAC Championship?

a. Yes (Continue to 4)
b. No (Fire Frank Solich)

4. Do you believe there is a faster way to win a MAC Championship other than altering the methodology of a 69 year old man after a lifetime's worth of on the job training (which cannot be changed as a result of genetic and environmental factors)?

a. Yes (Fire Frank Solich)
b. No (Seek alternate explanation to loss other than Frank Solich)

Monroe I'm not an apologist. It's not even humane to be a proponent of someone's work and then chastise them when they do EXACTLY what you would expect of them. (Is that not the gameplan we all watched?)

I would have no problem with you wanting to fire Frank. We could discuss. But if you want to keep Frank, your complaints about Frank Solich being Frank Solich are just nails on my chalkboard.

For you to continue offer solutions that would require the total renaissance of a 69 year old man reveals just how feeble your mind is.

You offer solutions but none of them are realistic. Frank's not the guy to question/ take over the control of other coaches jobs once he's entrusted them with the duties. That's because he TRUSTS them.

I cherish consistency because you can plan accordingly. And Frank Solich is about as consistent as them come. He performs exactly as advertised. 

Like I said, Frank game-plans as if his pawns are pawns, rooks are rooks, and kings are kings. When your king suddenly refuses to move, it makes the game incredibly difficult to play. 
 

 

P.S. Monroe,


As for your comments about vigorous intellectual debate, I wouldn't even mop my floor with the dirty rag you call logic.



That your skin crawls only indicates that you are rigid, cling to your point of view and are unable to consider other points of view or reality.  You obviously have a difficult time distinguishing between my arguments and me.

Your either/or scenario is silly.  Things are not always black and white, on or off.  I like Coach generally but think there need to be some changes.  I'm not for firing him at this point...I'm more willing to axe his offensive braintrust.

Why can't a 69 year old man change.  Coach did it after Troy whupped us--he came back with more emph on the pass and a wider open offense. Way to be prejudiced against the elderly.

Sure, running two back sets or the hurry up, etc, etc would be a "total renaissance."  That's how you meet my very easy,, logical suggestions?  You must think that going two back set would require medical and mental health professionals to be on stand by.  It's soooooooooooooo extreme. 

Consistency is fine  Consistency leading to 116-16 and 44-13 against a team that only beat Liberty and redhawk is silly.

When your king isn't working, you try something else.

Also, why do you hide behind a pseudonym.  Tells us your real name.  Or if you work for the University, at least admit that and give us some general idea of what capacity you work in.

See--I can see both sides, the good and bad of Coach.  You are one-way only...easy pickings for me.
Last Edited: 11/21/2013 12:07:17 AM by Monroe Slavin
The Situation
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Posted: 11/21/2013 7:49 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

That your skin crawls only indicates that you are rigid, cling to your point of view and are unable to consider other points of view or reality.  You obviously have a difficult time distinguishing between my arguments and me.


 

My skin crawls because every time you post a thread I picture Stuart from Mad TV.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

Your either/or scenario is silly.  Things are not always black and white, on or off.  I like Coach generally but think there need to be some changes.  I'm not for firing him at this point...I'm more willing to axe his offensive braintrust.



I gave you five (5) resolutions: Three (3) involved firing Frank Solich, one (1) involved blaming Frank Solich, and one (1) was left open ended to seek an alternate explanation other than Frank.
 
You can make a grey scale picture with black and white pixels. 
 
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Why can't a 69 year old man change.  Coach did it after Troy whupped us--he came back with more emph on the pass and a wider open offense. Way to be prejudiced against the elderly.


Who has been holding your hand this whole time? Prejudiced against the elderly?? How many 69 year olds pick up skate boarding, or snow boarding? To a lesser extreme what percentage of them pioneered social media? Or the smart phone? Or the internet?

How can you expect a man to go against his career training and the very fiber of his being?

He's wired to take the slow and steady. He's wired to establish the run. He's wired to trust himself to make decisions, and to trust people he hires who make decisions for him.

He will never be a hype man, a highly charismatic coach. That's not prejudice, I'd say that against Frank if I knew him when he was 25. 

He will have a very hard time letting go of Albin. You're missing this whole concept of trust. If he does fire Albin I do believe the offense will get better. But that would take a lot for him to can a friend like that.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Sure, running two back sets or the hurry up, etc, etc would be a "total renaissance."  That's how you meet my very easy,, logical suggestions?  You must think that going two back set would require medical and mental health professionals to be on stand by.  It's soooooooooooooo extreme. 


That's an Albin issue. What I'm saying would be a Frank renaissance is if he suddenly became the guy who intervenes. The perfectionist that has to have it exactly his way. There's no trust in that life.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more


When your king isn't working you try something else.
 



First off you air balled on that analogy.

Again that's Ablin.

"Just fire Albin"

That's not a Frank Solich characteristic decision.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Also, why do you hide behind a pseudonym.  Tells us your real name.  Or if you work for the University, at least admit that and give us some general idea of what capacity you work in.

I don't hide behind a pseudonym you dolt. It's a message board not a phone book. My real name has been listed underneath screen name for years, as well as my profession. Heck, there's even a link to my blog if you'd like to know a little more about me, maybe check out a picture.

Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/21/2013 10:00 AM
Congratulations.  You must be very happy.  You value consistency.  You've got it; we've pretty consistently been bad this season.

I value playing well.

Solich isn't responsible for Albin?  Then what is he responsible for?


For so much of this year we have been absolutely dominated...our o-line allowing free for all and no one on our d-line beating their man...no one at any position making plays.  A team can change this via physical play or mental approach (trying different stuff).  We don't at all.  There's your consistency...ineffectiveness so consistent total blowouts once the heart of the season started.


Again I ask, point to an important moment where our play--either by physical dominance or by conception/mental approach--made our opponent have to call a timeout to rethink how to stop us.  Heck, name a moment in the recent blowouts when we took a timeout and made a nice adjustment to slow the oppo down.  But, of course, the head coach should not be held responsible for any of that.

Excuse me if I don't drill down to find your alleged name...which functionally makes it hidden.







dude stop bringing water hose to nuclear bomb fight....me: calm, rational.  you: emotional shipwreck...this easy, fun




 
The Situation
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Posted: 11/21/2013 10:18 AM
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/21/2013 10:25 AM
In related news today, House Republicans recanted; Obama not responsible for results of Affordable Care Act.




if you can't respond with with, go for half-wit




 
The Situation
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Posted: 11/21/2013 10:38 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
In related news today, House Republicans recanted; Obama not responsible for results of Affordable Care Act.

Actually a strong analogy would be "House Dems love Obama, hate Obamacare".

You approved of him. You knew what you were going to get. He didn't just all of a sudden intellectually disintegrate.

My issue is not that anyone wants to fire Frank. It's that anyone would expect Frank to do make decisions that are uncharacteristic of his life's work and complain when he oversaw a game in the exact manner that he ususally does.

You approve of him. You know what you're going to get. You know the kind of program he is going to build.

There's a time to blame head coaches, assistants, players, and refs. That time is when they deviate significantly from their standard product. If you want Frank to still be your head coach then Frank is in the clear right now.

You're complaining to complain Monroe. Nothing short of a binky can soothe your pain.

P.S.

Monroe,

You know not the tone or inflection of my voice. You can assess no certainty to your claim that I'm being emotional. Everything you have perceived my text to be, was put together between your ears little guy.

Last Edited: 11/21/2013 10:44:54 AM by The Situation
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 11/21/2013 10:51 AM
Gentlemen, many thanks for my daily dose of entertainment...
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Posted: 11/21/2013 12:07 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
In related news today, House Republicans recanted; Obama not responsible for results of Affordable Care Act.

My issue is not that anyone wants to fire Frank. It's that anyone would expect Frank to do make decisions that are uncharacteristic of his life's work and complain when he oversaw a game in the exact manner that he ususally does.



This is the only thing I have an issue with. We should expect Frank to make decisions, uncharateristic of his life's work or not. He's the head coach and unfortunately that means making decisions you don't necessarily want to make. And while I love what Frank has done and continues to do for this program, if he's unwilling to make changes (i.e. philosophy, coaches, lineups, etc.) even though he knows it's the right thing to do (which it is in this case) then maybe it is time to look elsewhere.

Now, to be fair, you can't do it (fire Frank) after a 7-5 or 6-6 season. Especially after knowing where this program came from and where it has been before. But, the questions need to be asked by someone, whether it's fans, administration, players, what have you. At this point I think that's all some people want is an honest answer rather than the usual coach speak like "we just didn't have it today" or "we'll continue to work harder." That's paraphrasing, but you get the point.

If Frank is unwilling to look in the mirror and make a hard decision, well then, how can Ohio continue with that kind of thinking? Regardless of how old he is, he's in a tough job and is paid to make tough decisions.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 1:04 PM
Once again I stress.. FRANK IS A HERO TO US. the fact that we even throw the word fire in with franks name is laughable. We will be in tears when he leaves. If he somehow gets fired I will never attend an Ohio football game again. We are lucky to have a coach of franks caliber at a MAC school. Solich was named BIG 12 coach of the year and took Nebraska to a NATIONAL TITLE and yet he is somehow not good enough for us??
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Posted: 11/21/2013 1:08 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
Once again I stress.. FRANK IS A HERO TO US. the fact that we even throw the word fire in with franks name is laughable. We will be in tears when he leaves. If he somehow gets fired I will never attend an Ohio football game again. We are lucky to have a coach of franks caliber at a MAC school. Solich was named BIG 12 coach of the year and took Nebraska to a NATIONAL TITLE and yet he is somehow not good enough for us??


And yet, he's 1-4 in his last 5 games vs. Kent. He's built quite a powerhouse.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/21/2013 1:32 PM
Mike J--you get it...I'm entertaind by the repartee with Situation.  (who takes a monicker from the jersey shore show, anyway---eek!).

Siuation--if you'd just admit that Coach is not 100% infallible and shares at least some minimal amount of responsib for the recent collapse, then we' not be having this discussion.


And, don't take all this personally in any way.  In business I like to think that I have pretty good antennae/instinct.  In fact, one of my main functions is to provide an Anti Stupidity Service.  Many think that I'm quite good at this.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 1:47 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
...."Just fire Albin"


That's not a Frank Solich characteristic decision.



That's not necessarily true. Frank is loyal, but Frank is also willing to make changes. He fired his defensive coordinator, Craig Bohl in 2002 (and he's gone on to quite the success at North Dakota State, after righting his ship). He has changed his offensive philosophy over the years.

I'm not saying Frank will make changes, just that I think you underestimate him if you think he will never change things. He will do whatever he thinks is best for the team.

The Situation
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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:09 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Siuation--if you'd just admit that Coach is not 100% infallible and shares at least some minimal amount of responsib for the recent collapse, then we' not be having this discussion.


And, don't take all this personally in any way.  In business I like to think that I have pretty good antennae/instinct.  In fact, one of my main functions is to provide an Anti Stupidity Service.  Many think that I'm quite good at this.

Monroe did your employer qualify for a work opportunity tax credit by hiring someone with special needs?

The Situation wrote:expand_more

There's a time to blame head coaches, assistants, players, and refs. That time is when they deviate significantly from their standard product.

I've stated my case. Frank Solich did not handle the Kent State game differently than just about every other game I've seen him coach at OHIO.

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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:19 PM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
Once again I stress.. FRANK IS A HERO TO US. the fact that we even throw the word fire in with franks name is laughable. We will be in tears when he leaves. If he somehow gets fired I will never attend an Ohio football game again. We are lucky to have a coach of franks caliber at a MAC school. Solich was named BIG 12 coach of the year and took Nebraska to a NATIONAL TITLE and yet he is somehow not good enough for us??


And yet, he's 1-4 in his last 5 games vs. Kent. He's built quite a powerhouse.


First who expects OHIO to be a power house. We have NO history, zero, zip, nil, nothing, not one shred of history of being a powerhouse. We don't even have a history of being good. Our history is being a BAD MAC school. and Frank has put us to, on a off year, an average school. and for most of his career here a good MAC team that competes for the title and goes to bowls.

Let's look at what Frank has done for us.

1.Beat big named schools such as Pitt and Penn State- Who would have ever dreamed us beating the great Penn State.

2. Made us ranked- 1st time since 68

3. 10 win season - 1st since 68

4. Won two bowl games- before Frank we had never even won a bowl game let alone gone to them on a consistent basis. We had only been to two bowl games before Frank came.... and now that we go 6-6 or 7-5 and might make one we're flipping out??? why??????? we should be happy we are going to finish the year 500. maybe better

5.had an overall record here of 65-49 - the two coaches before him had a combined record of 44-71....... To find a coach with a better winning % than Frank you have to go back to 1941 when Don Peden was the coach.. 1941!!!!!!!

6. Has put Ohio Football on the map. - We're building a new weight room/Fieldhouse. Have had record numbers in attendance. and have just been rated the #1 underrated atmosphere in college football. Why are we unhappy?

None of that would have been done Without Frank and you people are ignorant if you even think about the thought of him being fired. Educate yourself on what Frank has done before you criticize him for a 6-6 season.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:21 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...."Just fire Albin"


That's not a Frank Solich characteristic decision.



That's not necessarily true. Frank is loyal, but Frank is also willing to make changes. He fired his defensive coordinator, Craig Bohl in 2002 (and he's gone on to quite the success at North Dakota State, after righting his ship)...


L.C.,

Frank fired his defensive coordinator in 2002 after the worst loss in Nebraska history (36-62 in 2001 to Colorado), followed by a 14-37 point loss to Miami in the National Championship game, followed by a 7-7 season. Again, that was at Nebraska. It's apparent his hand was forced. You might even say it was necessary to save his own job, which he would later lose the following year anyways.

The same could be the case here. I would not be surprised to see Frank fire Albin to save his own job.

Offensively things are bad right now.

The reason I brought up that whole bit on the illegitimacy of "what-if" scenarios in sports arguments is because you can't cherry pick the characteristics you like and don't like about Frank Solich to create a better coach. Part of what makes him strong is his trust in the people he depends on. It also makes him weak. But it's counterproductive to arbtrairly assign when Frank should trust people and when he shouldn't.

Ultimately, I think he does possess that over-ride to cut off the arm to save the body so to speak. He's willing to line up in the pistol, or fire a man he can no longer depend on when it becomes detrimental to his own position. But that's not a renaissance, that's survival.

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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:22 PM
People also complain about his handling of TT. We wouldn't have anywhere near the quality of TT and the rest of the team if it wasn't for Frank. The talent we would bring in would be so poor even if you had a football mastermind at the helm we wouldn't be able to win.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:27 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
I would not be surprised to see Frank fire Albin to save his own job.


We're not going to fire Frank. He doesn't need to "save" his job. If he was fired Ohio would be the laughing stock of the NCAA. Ohio football has had no tradition before frank. Even on a 6-6 year we are still better than we were before Frank
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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:42 PM
Talent?  I think it is safe to say that this year we are, at best, 7th in the league with our talent level (with one more game to go).  Another thing I continue to believe is there is something structurally wrong with OHIO football.  This is an experiences coach who has been in the National Championship game, he has a stable and experienced staff, he has had some success here.  Yet, here we are in Year 9 and still no MACC.  If this coach cannot get it done, is there another one out there that can?  To make things worse, while this staff has been at OHIO, Akron, Buffalo and Miami have all won MACC games.

I am like most on this board, I want this staff to succeed but right now all we have is frustration and disappointment. 
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Posted: 11/21/2013 2:53 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Talent? I think it is safe to say that this year we are, at best, 7th in the league with our talent level (with one more game to go). Another thing I continue to believe is there is something structurally wrong with OHIO football. This is an experiences coach who has been in the National Championship game, he has a stable and experienced staff, he has had some success here. Yet, here we are in Year 9 and still no MACC. If this coach cannot get it done, is there another one out there that can? To make things worse, while this staff has been at OHIO, Akron, Buffalo and Miami have all won MACC games.

I am like most on this board, I want this staff to succeed but right now all we have is frustration and disappointment.
How is bowl wins disappointing??? How are MAC east titles disappointing. before Frank we were what eastern is now. The worst of the worst. I don't know what you people don't understand about what i'm saying. Without Frank we are one of the worst teams in the country. Once we added Frank we became a competitive team who made major accomplishments. If we take away Frank we will once again be the worst of the worst and will average 4 wins a season. Mark my words. This is the Golden age of OHIO football. and the reason for it is Frank. Take away Frank and we will fall back to the bottom where historically where we are suppose to be.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 3:56 PM

GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
This is the only thing I have an issue with. We should expect Frank to make decisions, uncharateristic of his life's work or not.

Why?

What evidence do you have you that we should expect coaches to make uncharacteristic decisions?

Where is there evidence of other coaches stopping on a dime and switching gears after decades in the business?

(I do not consider a coach establishing the run under center and later establishing the run from the shotgun as changing gears.)

I understand that I come off as over-aggressive but I assure you this is not a rhetorical question.

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Posted: 11/21/2013 4:11 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Talent? I think it is safe to say that this year we are, at best, 7th in the league with our talent level (with one more game to go). Another thing I continue to believe is there is something structurally wrong with OHIO football. This is an experiences coach who has been in the National Championship game, he has a stable and experienced staff, he has had some success here. Yet, here we are in Year 9 and still no MACC. If this coach cannot get it done, is there another one out there that can? To make things worse, while this staff has been at OHIO, Akron, Buffalo and Miami have all won MACC games.

I am like most on this board, I want this staff to succeed but right now all we have is frustration and disappointment.
Casper71. Scroll four posts up. Ohio has experienced unprecedented success. If you can have what The Bobcat Bandit lists and only feel frustration and disappointment the rest of your life must be pretty awesome. While Ohio has been learning about winning there has been a succession of MAC Champions. Some striking like lightning and some from winning programs. Ohio is still learning about winning. Some folks think it is easy, just a matter of different plays. Sorry, it is picking a scheme that you can build to a level of strength that even when the opponent knows what you will do they have little hope against you, see NIU. I can not begrudge NIU's success, they have earned it. Ohio and the rest can only hope they don't have yet another winner at QB. Some Ohio fans thought Ohio would be the next Boise State, well, NIU got there first and they deserve everyone's respect. Since Solich has been at Ohio the highs have been higher and the lows have been higher too. This is important to understand. If you expected there would only be highs, well then, you had another think coming.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 4:17 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
Siuation--if you'd just admit that Coach is not 100% infallible and shares at least some minimal amount of responsib for the recent collapse, then we' not be having this discussion.


And, don't take all this personally in any way.  In business I like to think that I have pretty good antennae/instinct.  In fact, one of my main functions is to provide an Anti Stupidity Service.  Many think that I'm quite good at this.

Monroe did your employer qualify for a work opportunity tax credit by hiring someone with special needs?

There's a time to blame head coaches, assistants, players, and refs. That time is when they deviate significantly from their standard product.

I've stated my case. Frank Solich did not handle the Kent State game differently than just about every other game I've seen him coach at OHIO.



The highlighted is funny.

That's the prob; approaching kent state required a somewhat different approach.  And, as L.C. wrote, Coach is eminently capable of that.

To those who point to Coach's past success here:  We all acknowledge that.  It's been very good.  But you must likewise acknowledge the present:  no MACC and the program has experienced three REALLY, REALLY DREADFUL losses in a row along with poor performance vs. Louisville and CMU.  The latter two would be acceptable, perhaps, if the rest of the season had been up to reasonable expections.

Yeah, reasonable expectations in Coach's 9th year.  Fall off cliff after some success is not what most of us expect, not too much to ask for..
Last Edited: 11/21/2013 4:23:36 PM by Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/21/2013 4:23 PM
IMO Albin and possibly Burrow have peaked..Coach Frank should really look at his staff but then the question is does he really want to rebuild his staff at this point in his career? He might very well retire out of the blue.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 4:26 PM
Huh??--If guys aren't getting the job done, then Coach's age or career status are absolutely not an excuse for not making needed changes.

I just don't get the view of those who a) can't get a reasonably objective view of reality and/or b) not make decisions based on the proper criteria/with the proper goal in mind..


No one likes to see people fired.  But the criteria is success, not keeping people employed despite their subpar performance.
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Posted: 11/21/2013 4:29 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
.... Yet, here we are in Year 9 and still no MACC.  If this coach cannot get it done, is there another one out there that can?  To make things worse, while this staff has been at OHIO, Akron, Buffalo and Miami have all won MACC games.....

While Akron, Buffalo, and Miami have won the MACC each one time, that doesn't mean they don't suck.

MAC Records since 2005 (Conference games only, including MACC)

                W   L   Pct      Division wins    MACC Wins
NIU          54  20  74.0%          4             2  
CMU          46  26  63.9%          3             3
Temple       25  15  62.5%          0             0
Ball St      43  28  60.6%          1             0
Toledo       42  29  59.2%          0             0
Ohio         43  31  58.1%          3             0
BG           39  31  55.7%          0             0
WMU          37  33  52.9%          0             0
Kent         32  41  43.8%          1             0
Buffalo      28  44  38.9%          1             1
Miami        28  44  38.9%          2             1
Akron        21  51  29.2%          1             1
EMU          17  52  24.6%          0             0
U.Mass        2  12  14.3%          0             0

Last Edited: 11/21/2013 4:38:10 PM by L.C.
Showing Messages: 76 - 100 of 178
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