Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Miami Wins!
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Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/5/2013 10:29 AM
I think, historically, there has been something structural at Ohio that has held back the sports teams. For example, I don't think Cleve Bryant or Tom Lichtenberg were as bad as their results would indicate. As a student during Cleve's time, I always suspected he did not get anywhere near the proper support from the administration. I think Charles Ping was either anti athletics, or was content with diminishing athletic support from the university.

A great coach in a poor athletics environment can only do so much. Jim Grobe at Wake Forest is a good example. There is an institutional glass ceiling, and Grobe may have bumped up against it.

That seems to be changing at Ohio today, but that kind of institutional change will take time. I think Ohio has the right coach. I'm thrilled to have him.

Monroe, whether he intends to or not, is building an anti-Solich fervor. Yes, we went 123-16 recently (or whatever the actual number is), but "what difference, at this point, does it make?"  You get up, dust off, and move on. In my opinion, you move on with Solich, with his staff or his changes in staff, and his very much improving recruiting classes.

And you see what tomorrow brings.

Monroe seems to revel in our dismal showing of late (even though he says he doesn't). He suggests that if you're not with him, than your utterly against him. He seems to want all of us to continually acknowledge our dismal play against the MAC's top teams. That if we're not 100% with Monroe, then we are "apologists" and give "trophies to everyone."

In his world, there is no room for any other outcome. You are either completely dissatisfied, or you are accepting of our mediocrity. Nothing else.

So, again, what does Monroe ultimately want? I contend his campaign is a thinly veiled anti-Solich march.

And if I'm right about that, then I completely disagree with Monroe.
bobcat695
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Posted: 12/5/2013 12:27 PM
I don't think Monroe is anti-Solich at all.  I'm not either.  I think the point he is trying to make is that Lichtenberg was almost 25 years ago.  Let's stop using that as our barometer.  It is not the total number of wins this Senior class had, or Solich's career record that should be the only things we use to measure success.  I am more concerned that we have hit a wall.  A largr percentage of our fan base is thrilled to be 7-5 because "At least we aren't 0-12 like Miami" or "We got invited to another bowl game" or "Don't you guys remember the Knorr years?". 

I'm not a rabid fan, nor do I have unrealistic expectations about watching Ohio win the National Championship.  I do think it's OK to believe we should not be presented blowout losses to Buffalo, BG and Kent from this Senior class.  Forget the record.  I'm bothered by the lack of effort, loss of leadership and the inability to win any meaningful games in the second half of the last two seasons.  Ohio football is trending downward.  Being one of 70 teams to attend a bowl does not negate that.  

I think Solich is capable of leading the turnaround.  I'm appreciative of the overall growth in the program.  I will always be there to Stand Up and Cheer.  It's just more fun when the team performs at the level they are capable of.   
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/5/2013 1:18 PM
I agree. And I would suspect most readers of this site also agree. But the question is what to do about it. What does referencing 123-16, ad infinitum, accomplish? It's as though we all must lace all our posts with some rant in order to prove that we too do not like the losses to BG, Buffalo and CMU, either.

It seems to me, that's a given. There's nothing to be gained from rehashing what we all know was disappointment. It's time to turn the page and see what improvements are in store.
L.C.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 2:00 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
.....2) that there was very, very little positive about our performance this year.  Big stats against EMU, redhawk, UMass.  That's meaningful, that gets it...really?  Really?

Yes, it's meaningful, but not the way you take it. You take it when someone says that Ohio played well in those games to mean that "playing well in those games was enough". Actually, playing well in those games was significant in exactly the opposite direction. Playing well against EMU, NTSU, and Marshall shows that this was not a pathetic, talentless team that had no hope of beating big, bad, BG and Buffalo. To the contrary, playing well in those games shows that this team did have talent, and that they could have played better in those games. Why they didn't play better is something that must be resolved and fixed. No one disagrees about that. It isn't just you, everyone wants to know the answer to that - coaches, players, administration, and fans.

Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
..I'm done trying to convince anyone.  I'll remain astounded by the ability of so many to watch games and miss the clear message, to have missed how poorly we performed at most of the key moments. 

That's just it, Monroe. We all see that Ohio did not play well. There is no need to convince us of the obvious. The question is, what should we do now?

Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
.... But the question is what to do about it. What does referencing 123-16, ad infinitum, accomplish? It's as though we all must lace all our posts with some rant in order to prove that we too do not like the losses to BG, Buffalo and CMU, either.

It seems to me, that's a given. There's nothing to be gained from rehashing what we all know was disappointment. It's time to turn the page and see what improvements are in store.

Exactly, Robert. That's the question. What do we do now?

Do we?
1. Revel in self-pity
2. Rant repeatedly
3. Fire the coach
4. Try to understand the problem
5. Look for possible other solutions
6. Expect the coaches to solve the problem
7. Expect  the players to solve the problem
8. Expect the administration to solve the problem
9. Hope the problem goes away on its own
10. Forget about it, and think about basketball
11. Think about next year
12. Something else

My personal opinion is that the "problem" we saw is not the "problem" at all, but a symptom. What the underlying problem actually was, I know I personally have no way of knowing with any certainty, but it seems clear that there was some kind of underlying issue that significantly damaged the teamwork, and the internal chemistry of this team.  One example of what the underlying problem could be is a coach that isn't performing, and who has lost the confidence of his players. Another example is a player, or group of players, stirring dis-content. Yet another possible problem is a group of players reading their own press releases and believing them, and not working hard anymore.  The solution for each of these would be very different, but all might show up with the same symptom - a team that isn't performing to its ability and which appears to give up.  In the end, since I don't think I can know exactly what the problem was, I have concluded that I will not be the one who finds a solution.

That leaves me with #6-8, and #11. I think the administration should be taking this up with the coaches, and the coaches should be taking it up with the players, and the players should be taking it up with each other.  I do think that if teams that give up become a recurring problem, that is a sure sign that a coaching change is needed.  On the other hand, having watched Ohio football for a number of other years, I don't remember that ever being a problem before, so I end up believing it is a problem that can and will be solved.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/5/2013 4:45 PM
{This is dedicated to our splendid Yellow Lab, Duke.  You may not like it when he blasts--but you must deal with the reality and respond leave-the-room-innahurry appropriately.  I'm sure you get the analogy.}

This isn't written to convince...'cause that won't happen.  It's written to explain viewpoints and to ask questions that those who don't share my view have yet to answer.

First, lets get the right stats.  it's basically only the final scores in light of our potential.  So, 9-9 in the last 18 with 6 of those 9 wins being against REALLY BAD teams.  Since that takes in the last 6 games of last year, perhaps, the problem is not just 123-16, though those games mark that the problem is big.

Re-watch such as first half of BG last year and 2nd half of Beefs this year, etc, etc.  Long running dreadful (as 695 is telling us)--yet there's a strong contingent here who don't acknolwedge.  L.C.--they think nothing notable is going on.

So, out of fascinated curiosity, I ask them:  What, then, do you have to see in order to agree that it's seriously bad?

I wasn't the first to use the k-word about this year.  That others have could be indicative.

The 'eyeballs' test, the ability to get the message from what one sees is critical.   That's what I've been beating the drum about.  Quick eyeballs test:  In hoops last year if you think we had any real chance of beating 'kron then you need to take off the green eyeglasses.

MACC--that's the goal.  MACC.  Focus; MAC Championship.

By the way, I've suggested changes consistently (hurry up, two back sets, etc,) so I'm not just a complainer, I'm a fixer.  But when no reasonable effort to fix is made, I make the noise.

I'm not against any of the coaches, so long as they are decent people.  I'm pretty good about keeping eyes on the right goal--ridding this stench of the last 18 games.  Hopefully, that doesn't mean firing.  But if firing is justified...


Why does almost everyone here ignore Volleyball.  It's a terrific sport and it's our best team.  If you're not watching the vidcast tomorrow at 5pm, then I need to have Duke come visit your particular residence.
Last Edited: 12/5/2013 4:50:06 PM by Monroe Slavin
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