Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Is this Frank's last game.
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/27/2013 10:19 AM
Yes, it's necessary to list what has to go....'cause I'd love for Coach and staff to stay and be successful.  But if we keep the following same old stuff one more year to the same old non-effect then you'll hear me leading the 'got to go' train:

So, to start

No hurry up offense.
No two back sets.
No jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps.
No attempt to use edge speed in the run game.
No use of big fullback.
Still doing BUTM when it's not working.
No traditional screen passes.
About zero emotion from our players.
Not enough blitzing in obvious passing situations.
No imagination at all, espec on offense (you've seen us once, then you've seen all we have).

 
 
 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/27/2013 10:34 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Yes, it's necessary to list what has to go....'cause I'd love for Coach and staff to stay and be successful.  But if we keep the following same old stuff one more year to the same old non-effect then you'll hear me leading the 'got to go' train:

So, to start

No hurry up offense.
No two back sets.
No jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps.
No attempt to use edge speed in the run game.
No use of big fullback.
Still doing BUTM when it's not working.
No traditional screen passes.
About zero emotion from our players.
Not enough blitzing in obvious passing situations.
No imagination at all, espec on offense (you've seen us once, then you've seen all we have).



I predict that Monroe will sing a different tune come next fall.  This ain't Frank's first rodeo.  He knows better than anyone on this board what needs to be done to right the ship and  I am sure he's very busy doing it.  This man's whole life is football.  Every moment of his waking day (a probably in his dreams) he's working to make OHIO better.  He'll do what it takes.  The incoming recruiting class looks to be his best yet . . . so more talent is on the way.  If I were UK, I would be leery of that meeting in Lexington in the early fall of 2014!
Last Edited: 12/27/2013 10:36:27 AM by OhioCatFan
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 12/27/2013 10:50 AM
We specifically brought back the jet sweep in the bowl game and I was wondering where the hell it had been much of the season. The screen pass still seems to be MIA. The jet sweep wasn't doing much in the second half however.

We either figure out how to make the power running game successful next year or the offense will stagnate again.
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/27/2013 10:53 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Yes, it's necessary to list what has to go....'cause I'd love for Coach and staff to stay and be successful. But if we keep the following same old stuff one more year to the same old non-effect then you'll hear me leading the 'got to go' train:

So, to start

No hurry up offense.
No two back sets.
No jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps.
No attempt to use edge speed in the run game.
No use of big fullback.
Still doing BUTM when it's not working.
No traditional screen passes.
About zero emotion from our players.
Not enough blitzing in obvious passing situations.
No imagination at all, espec on offense (you've seen us once, then you've seen all we have).
For a guy who said he does not know the Xs and Os you have quite a list of demands. It seems everything you have ever seen work you want. However, I am not sure there are enough practice reps to prepare and execute well the entire Encyclopedia of football offense. Also I believe there is an evolution of Ohio's offense in play that fans will be pleased with in time. Emotion, I saw emotion in this last game, though, it might have not been visible to you. When Moore made his great tackle, there was emotion involved believe me. When Daz went Solich on their CB, there was emotion involved believe me. I saw many more such emotion filled plays, just the Ohio players tend to show it between the snap and the whistle. Not sure you get it.
Last Edited: 12/29/2013 9:10:11 AM by Bcat2
Casper71
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Posted: 12/27/2013 11:12 AM
Anybody else notice the number of BIG Running Backs in the Bowl games so far this year?  Pitt, NIU and others...
L.C.
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Posted: 12/27/2013 2:28 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
....
No hurry up offense.
No two back sets.
No jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps.
No attempt to use edge speed in the run game.
No use of big fullback.
Still doing BUTM when it's not working.
No traditional screen passes.
About zero emotion from our players.
Not enough blitzing in obvious passing situations.
No imagination at all, espec on offense (you've seen us once, then you've seen all we have).
I thought I'd comment on a couple of these. First is on the "hurry up". I've noticed that when Ohio does go full hurry-up, the offense is significantly less effective than when they don't. That doesn't surprise me, since once of the strengths of the Ohio QB's, historically, has been in their use of audibles, and if you go at first sound, there is no time for an audible. It also hurt in a second way, by giving the D less time to rest. I thought it was an excellent choice to use it less often.

Secondly, I liked your comment about "Not enough blitzing in obvious passing situations." That's a good sign that the defense is mixing things up. It would be a disaster if they D consistently blitzed in obvious passing situations. Blitzes are more effective, and less likely to get burned badly, if they come at unpredictable times, and from unpredictable directions.

As for the comments on 2 back sets, sweeps, fullbacks, screens, etc, I really don't care how the offense gets yards and points - so long as they get them. Two back sets, fullbacks, I-Formation, option, pistol, Run-and-Shoot, West Coast Offense, Spread - it's all OK with me, so long as they make it work. Offensive productivity was off this year, so I presume there will be some changes. 

Here's the Ohio Offensive and Defense output, by year (Bolded years are MAC-East Championships):
       O Pts/Gm  MAC Rnk  Tot Off  Rnk    D Pts/Gm  Rnk   Tot Def    Rnk
2006    19.7        6     276.6     10      18.1     1      302.9     3
2007    30.5        4     362.8      8      29.9     8      407.5     5
2008    24.1       10     361.4      8      27.2     6      348.6     3
2009    24.8        6     310.1     10      21.3     2      348.5     5
2010    27.5        4     326.1      8      23.8     5      353.4     6
2011    30.5        5     446.4      4      22.1     2      361.4     4
2012    31.7        4     444.8      4      24.8     4      388.8     4
2013    27.4        6     379.4      6      27.5     6      405.8     5

One thing jumps out at me. With the exception of 2008 where the offense was bad at putting points on the board, the offense has typically been ranked about 4th though 6th in the MAC. The Years when Ohio won the MAC East were not the best offensive years, in fact, far from it. The stat that IS related to success? Ohio has always won the MAC East in years when they have been ranked 1 or 2 in Defense Points/game, and never won the MAC East in years when they are not.

So, does that mean forget the offense, and fix the defense? Maybe.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/27/2013 2:30 PM
My list hardly encompasses anything out of the mainstream and is not in any way an encyclopedia.

Some guys showed emotion at points?  Gee, ya think that might happen occasionally?  But there was very little joy of the game to be seen from our guys this year.  I think back to such as Chris Garrett and the fine, fun relationship that he seemed to have with Coach.  Saw about zero team joy this year beyond that which is normal/inevitable.

My points may be tiresome..but I think that I can make a good case that they are factually true.
Your constant, 100%, absolute, always defense of the team is not fact-based and is annoying.  We're about 9-9 (9-10?) over the last season and a half, with most of our wins coming against really, really bad teams.  Yet, you find everything to be perfect.

At some point, you must acknowledge reality.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/27/2013 2:34 PM
L.C.--Could you re-do your data by grouping it (for at least this year) as to how we did against good teams vs. the dregs.

I, too, don't care how we get it done.  But to keep doing BUTM when it was obviously, laughably not working is an interesting concept.
L.C.
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Posted: 12/27/2013 2:47 PM
While I'm at it, what wins the MAC? Offense, or Defense? Here are the ranks in offense and defense points/game for the winners and losers of the MAC Championship Game, by year:
           MACC Winner      MACC Loser
           Off    Def       Off    Def
2006        1      5         6      1 
2007        1     12        11      1 
2008        2      7         1      2
2009        1      1         6      2
2010        8      4         1      1 
2011        2      9         5      2
2012        1      2         3      3
2013        3      1         1      4

Here the Picture looks different. MACC winners have normally been rank 1 or 2 in offense. The team with the higher ranked offense has won 5 of 8 games. The team with the higher ranked defense is 3-5. So, I guess that leaves us with "Fix the defense to win the East", and "improve the offense to win the MACC". In four of the 8 cases there where games (2008, 2009, 2010, 2012)  where one team was higher ranked in both offense and defense, and the outcome for those was 2-2, oddly enough. In the other four games it was a predominantly offensive team versus a predominantly defensive team, and in 2006, 2007, and 2011 the offensive team won, while in 2013 the defensive team won. So much for the old saw "Defense wins Championships", I guess.

Monroe, regrouping the data that way would be possible, but not easy as I'd have to sort through and recompile all the data from the entire MAC season. It only takes a few minutes to pull data from normally collected stats, but to compile all the stats in the first place would be a major chore.

Last Edited: 12/27/2013 2:57:09 PM by L.C.
Steve
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Posted: 12/27/2013 3:55 PM
We have overrated our talent. Most fan bases do. And any intelligent evaluation of strategy and play-calling is warranted. But our problems go beyond that. We were outscored 116-13 in a three-game stretch against conference teams. There are probably a lot of factors that led to this, but that's just not even showing up more than anything else. What kind of disconnect is there between the coaches and players or players and players? And can this be corrected? Or will this hang over the program?         
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/27/2013 6:28 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
My list hardly encompasses anything out of the mainstream and is not in any way an encyclopedia.

Some guys showed emotion at points? Gee, ya think that might happen occasionally? But there was very little joy of the game to be seen from our guys this year. I think back to such as Chris Garrett and the fine, fun relationship that he seemed to have with Coach. Saw about zero team joy this year beyond that which is normal/inevitable.

My points may be tiresome..but I think that I can make a good case that they are factually true.
Your constant, 100%, absolute, always defense of the team is not fact-based and is annoying. We're about 9-9 (9-10?) over the last season and a half, with most of our wins coming against really, really bad teams. Yet, you find everything to be perfect.

At some point, you must acknowledge reality.
Have you sent your demands and warning to coach Solich? He should know don't you think?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/27/2013 11:25 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Now, I am starting to agree with Monroe. I don't think we have near the talent some on this board seem to think we have.

I would agree and The results would support this way of thinking.
Business_Cat
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Posted: 12/28/2013 10:01 AM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
We should follow the JC mold. Go get another guy that kicked butt outside the BCS, got a crap BCS gig and got canned.
Jim Tressel?

But in all seriousness, I could see him as our next head coach. It really wouldn't surprise me.
ytownbobcat
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Posted: 12/28/2013 2:27 PM
I don't think Tressel would be interested. He seems very happy with the work he is doing at Akron. Athens can be a tough gig for wives that have never lived in a remote college town.
He is now 61 years old. I really don't know how that will affect his career but he is not a young man.
TheBobcatBandit
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Posted: 12/28/2013 5:37 PM
When Jim comes back he'll face suspension because of this I don't see him ever returning anywhere
Bert Presley
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Posted: 12/29/2013 11:03 PM
When Frank wins the MAC, it will be the first time since 1968, that will not soon be forgotten. We have to hire a coach to replace him when he retires, Frank has earned the right to finish this the way he wants. Look at what Grobe did and how highly he is regarded and Frank has surpassed that. That isn't to say he can do no wrong, but he should be able to finish it how he wants barring the really insane.

Next we have to look at what we want as a football program, the Goals are simple: 
1) Beat Oxford Prep
2) Beat Huntington College
3) Win 8 games every season
4) Win the MAC at least once every 4 years

If that happens then we would be bowling every year, and everyone would be happy. I realize that #3 is difficult but with our conference is possible. I would hope that we would hire a coach that has the following:

1) a Dedication to Ohio University and it's success on and off the field
2) Integrity
3) Innovative in ways to get the message out about the University and innovative in their way at looking at football both on offense and defense.

 
Beat Michigan
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Posted: 1/1/2014 4:46 PM
Probably should just enjoy having a coach like Frank. Anyone remember Ohio football before Frank?
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/1/2014 5:40 PM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
Athens can be a tough gig for wives that have never lived in a remote college town.
.


Really?  For those spouses who have come to Athens and embrace it, their time her in Athens has been very rewarding.  Just call Allison Groce and Marcie Ford.  Just give Kara DeRuyter orJackie Germano a call.  From what I can tell from my brief encounters with the spouses of this football staff, they truly enjoy it here.  Sure, we would all like a few more shopping and dining options but the overall quality of life in Athens is safe, rewarding and welcoming.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/1/2014 9:38 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Athens can be a tough gig for wives that have never lived in a remote college town.
.


Really?  For those spouses who have come to Athens and embrace it, their time her in Athens has been very rewarding.  Just call Allison Groce and Marcie Ford.  Just give Kara DeRuyter orJackie Germano a call.  From what I can tell from my brief encounters with the spouses of this football staff, they truly enjoy it here.  Sure, we would all like a few more shopping and dining options but the overall quality of life in Athens is safe, rewarding and welcoming.


While I disagree with the OP regarding wives as most every wife I have encountered in Athens enjoy the small town and ties that they have established here ...especially those with young kids...I think the examples you threw out here don't address what Ytown was alluding to as they are small town gals anyway. 

Ally is from a small town in the lower hills of Indiana and an IU grad (Bloomington is just Athens on steroids...same small town atmosphere, same counter culture , same pot growing hippies in the hills), Marcy is a local with Dad and Mom still living out in the county on the edge of McArthur....Athens is where they shopped for gosh sake.. Jackie Germano is a Green Bay native and spent undergrad years at Bowling Green.

I may be wrong but I think Ytown was alluding to big city cultured folk like Ms O Shea. Where I disagree with Ytown is that most gals who are married to coaches that I know are pretty salt of the earth and Ms TOS is the exception rather than the rule. I also think that this administration has done a stellar job in the office bringing in coaches, asst coaches  and spouses that "fit" Athens. Not like anyone has one foot out the door in any of the sports.
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