Ohio Football Topic
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Alan Swank
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Posted: 5/1/2014 10:10 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
The article is terrible. But after two consecutive years of awful performances against quality MAC opponents, I think wondering aloud whether Frank can still get it done is perfectly reasonable.


Reasonable if your balance sheet only shows debits. During those two years, on the credit side,there were; 17 wins, two bowls (with a blowout win in one), quality wins over Penn State (at State College), North Texas and Marshall twice. Right, Ohio has a coach who has, in the last two years, won 17, gone to two bowls winning one, beaten Penn State, Marshall twice and ..... oh well. Me I am still riding my Independence Bowl high. Paul if you could have been there or State College perhaps, they really happened in your consecutive two years.

+1  I was at the Penn State game, and it is one of the highlights of my Bobcat fan life.  

 


Very similar to the North Carolina basketball game.  Even though like Penn State they were down that year, it was still a win over a storied program.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/1/2014 3:45 PM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
The article is terrible. But after two consecutive years of awful performances against quality MAC opponents, I think wondering aloud whether Frank can still get it done is perfectly reasonable.

I think most people know that there will be ups and downs, but they were surprised by the unexpected ending to 2012, and 2013. I similarly think most recognize that 2014 is likely a rebuilding year, but if 2015-2016 aren't better, there will be more than a fringe minority asking that question.  Since I think 2014 will show a renewed attitude, and 2015-2016 will be very good years, I think that the author of that piece will remain in a minority.

I do have to admit that I find myself asking if he'd be happier with PJ Fleck, though.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/1/2014 8:16 PM
I was puzzling over something in my mind, and so I decided to look it up. I know that Hess was the National Small College Champs, and MAC champs, in 1960, and MAC champs in 1968, and co-champs in 1967, yet I also know his overall winning percentage is lower than Solich's. Solich is currently 66-50, ..569 at Ohio, while Hess is 108-91-4, .542. How did that happen?

Hess's years:
1958  5-4-0
1959  7-2-0
1960 10-0-0
1961 5-3-1
1962 8-3-0 
1963 6-4-0
1964 5-4-1
1965 0-10
1966 5-5
1967 6-4
1968 10-1
1969 5-4-1
1970 4-5
1971 5-5
1972 3-8
1973 5-5
1974 6-5
1975 5-5-1
1976 7-4
1977 1-10

He got off to a red-hot start, and after 5 years was 35-12-1,  .740. After that most of his years  were around .500, with two awful years (1965, 1977) and one great year (1968). His last 15 years combined he was 73-79-3, .481.

Interestingly that is the exact opposite of Solich, who after 4 years stood at 23-26, .469, but who since then has a record of 43-25, .632.

Not that any of this matters, I just found it interesting. For the old timers, what went wrong in 1965? And again, in 1977?
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 5/1/2014 9:04 PM
1965:  I was cruising around South America with the US Navy and teaching SA navies ASW techniques.  As a result I couldn't do my weekly phone consultation with Coach Hess.  So blame me! 
1977:  I think we had like 10 starters and/or key players go down in the Marshall game, which we ironically won, and then it was down hill from there.  I believe Coach Hess said it was the worst injury situation of his career. Also, Hess died during the off-season; as far as I know, though, his coaching was not affected by his illness during the season.  

Edit: Hess died of metastatic testicular cancer, if I'm recalling correctly. 
Last Edited: 5/1/2014 9:10:42 PM by OhioCatFan
Casper71
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Posted: 5/2/2014 12:17 AM
Yep, those two years really affect the W-L percentage.  I don't think FS&Co will be 1-11 any time soon but it would be nice to make that break thru we all thought would come sometime in the next year or two.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/2/2014 1:44 PM
I still think we'll yet see your breakout Casper. I know you always complain about the lack of 3-star recruits, and while I don't think the "stars" are as accurate as you do, I understand what you mean. In general, better players mean a better team, and you can only get so far with unknown players. I personally think that stars are accurate at the high end (3 stars, and especially 4-5 star players), but at the 2-star level they aren't worth much. I think at the lower levels, the better indicator is how many other offers a player had. Here's a historical track record of Freshmen Recruits that shows the average numbers of other offers the incoming players have had from FBS schools:

    Avg Offers   #Freshmn     Impact Years  
2005 -  .10         25         2008-2009  
2006 -  .82         17         2009-2010
2007 -  .72         20         2010-2011
2008 - 2.00         15         2011-2012
2009 - 1.18         17         2012-2013
2010 -  .92         13         2013-2014
2011 - 2.50         22         2014-2015
2012 - 2.64         14         2015-2016
2013 - 2.33         18         2016-2017
2014 - 2.36         22         2017-2018 

The "impact years" are the years when the classes were/will be fourth and fifth year players.

Early on, under Solich, Ohio was basically recruiting players that had few if any other offers from FBS schools. Sometimes they were able to find hidden and overlooked talent, people like Carrie and Brazill, that had no other offers, but sometimes they ended up with players that didn't work out.

Once Ohio proved they could win, the recruits started getting better in 2008-2009, but then 2010 was an off year. Sure enough, the "impact yeas" of the 2008-2009 classes, 2011-2012, I think most of us would agree the teams were better in terms of talent than the ones that preceded them. Even though the 2012 season wasn't as good as hoped, I think most of us believe they had the talent to have done better had they not had so many injuries.

Next came a dip in talent in 2010, which was a small class to begin with. Worse, most of those are gone from the program, and only Carpenter, Cochran, Kristoff, and Ingol remain from that group. You'd expect a dip in overall team quality in 2013-2014 to match the dip in recruiting in 2010, and I think we've seen that.

Then comes a second spike in the talent level of recruits in 2011 and it has continued into the years following. I expect that the teams of the next few years will reflect that.  I think 2014 will be a rebuilding year, but 2015 and beyond we'll be looking at the best Bobcat teams we have yet seen under Solich.

I think the future looks bright, and I think it's a great time to be a Bobcat fan.
Last Edited: 5/2/2014 1:48:28 PM by L.C.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 5/2/2014 8:17 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I was puzzling over something in my mind, and so I decided to look it up. I know that Hess was the National Small College Champs, and MAC champs, in 1960, and MAC champs in 1968, and co-champs in 1967, yet I also know his overall winning percentage is lower than Solich's. Solich is currently 66-50, ..569 at Ohio, while Hess is 108-91-4, .542. How did that happen?

Hess's years:
1958 5-4-0
1959 7-2-0
1960 10-0-0
1961 5-3-1
1962 8-3-0
1963 6-4-0
1964 5-4-1
1965 0-10
1966 5-5
1967 6-4
1968 10-1
1969 5-4-1
1970 4-5
1971 5-5
1972 3-8
1973 5-5
1974 6-5
1975 5-5-1
1976 7-4
1977 1-10

He got off to a red-hot start, and after 5 years was 35-12-1, .740. After that most of his years were around .500, with two awful years (1965, 1977) and one great year (1968). His last 15 years combined he was 73-79-3, .481.

Interestingly that is the exact opposite of Solich, who after 4 years stood at 23-26, .469, but who since then has a record of 43-25, .632.

Not that any of this matters, I just found it interesting. For the old timers, what went wrong in 1965? And again, in 1977?
1963 was another MAC title year. 1965 was another year when the injury bug bit often and hard.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 5/4/2014 4:34 PM
Ummmm, why is a "delete pending"?
Last Edited: 5/4/2014 4:35:27 PM by Paul Graham
L.C.
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Posted: 5/4/2014 5:11 PM
The original author of the thread apparently edited the name of the thread to that. Presumably, along with editing the title of his thread, he simultaneously requested that the powers that be delete his thread, but I can't think of any reason why the thread should be deleted. Other than driving a small amount of traffic to the blog author's site, it also stimulated some discussion at a time when we have little to talk about. I do think it's clear that the thread author is one and the same with the blog author because I note that some of the grammatical errors that were pointed out here have been corrected.

Even though he didn't find much agreement here, if he's really a Bobcat fan, hopefully he'll stick around and continue to post here.
Last Edited: 5/4/2014 5:20:04 PM by L.C.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 5/5/2014 4:24 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
The article is terrible. But after two consecutive years of awful performances against quality MAC opponents, I think wondering aloud whether Frank can still get it done is perfectly reasonable.


Reasonable if your balance sheet only shows debits. During those two years, on the credit side,there were; 17 wins, two bowls (with a blowout win in one), quality wins over Penn State (at State College), North Texas and Marshall twice. Right, Ohio has a coach who has, in the last two years, won 17, gone to two bowls winning one, beaten Penn State, Marshall twice and ..... oh well. Me I am still riding my Independence Bowl high. Paul if you could have been there or State College perhaps, they really happened in your consecutive two years.



1)  You do realize that Mitt Romney did not win the last election despite long-forgotten accomplishments/polls showing that he led, right?  That is, a reasonably representative presentation of the truth is what most of us believe in.  (refer to the many posts about no wins vs. MAC .500 club in forever, first quarter vs. BG and 2nd half vs Beefs last year along with 20 point die in 4th qtr of bowl game last year)


2)  A simple yes or no will do:  Are you or a close family member affiliated with the University?  'cause everyone of your posts is so 'party line' that the question must be asked.  Not that you'll have the character to answer....







 
Last Edited: 5/5/2014 4:24:54 AM by Monroe Slavin
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 5/5/2014 9:30 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
 . . . 2)  A simple yes or no will do:  Are you or a close family member affiliated with the University?  'cause everyone of your posts is so 'party line' that the question must be asked.  Not that you'll have the character to answer....

While I'll let him answer for himself any details that he cares to add, I can tell you from PMs we exchanged that your assumptions about bcat2 are wrong.  


Ryan Carey
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Posted: 5/5/2014 9:38 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
2)  A simple yes or no will do:  Are you or a close family member affiliated with the University?  'cause everyone of your posts is so 'party line' that the question must be asked.  Not that you'll have the character to answer....


But by all means Monroe, keep attacking people's character and then get your undies in a bunch if people do the same to you.  Or when people completely ignore your posts because they'd rather not "get into it" with you....only to have you claim nobody is as smart as you because nobody supplies answers to your questions.
L.C.
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Posted: 5/5/2014 11:06 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
...1977:  I think we had like 10 starters and/or key players go down in the Marshall game, which we ironically won, and then it was down hill from there.  I believe Coach Hess said it was the worst injury situation of his career. ...

Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
... 1965 was another year when the injury bug bit often and hard.

Thanks for answering my question, Mike and OCF. Those years definitely stand out as very different than the others, and I was wondering what went wrong. Those sound a bit like 2012, except that 2012 started out as a pretty special team.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 5/5/2014 5:25 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...1977: I think we had like 10 starters and/or key players go down in the Marshall game, which we ironically won, and then it was down hill from there. I believe Coach Hess said it was the worst injury situation of his career. ...

... 1965 was another year when the injury bug bit often and hard.

Thanks for answering my question, Mike and OCF. Those years definitely stand out as very different than the others, and I was wondering what went wrong. Those sound a bit like 2012, except that 2012 started out as a pretty special team.
One example to underscore how hard the injury bug struck in 1965, my friend and classmate John Edwards at one time or other that season played DB, WR and QB.
SBH
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Posted: 5/5/2014 5:27 PM
Was Sonny Sano handling our S&C program back during the Johnson administration?


Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 5/6/2014 11:29 AM
Despite several very disappointing losses the past two years, 17 wins is very impressive when you consider that is exact same number of wins we had under Cleve and Coach Lichtenberg for 10 years (1985-1994).

In terms of a strength coach, I think Ethan Reeve was the first fulltime strength coach we had when he came here with Jim Grobe in 1995.

About ten years ago my neighbor who graduated from Wake Forest went with me to hear Grobe speak here in Richmond.  Grobe was talking about his first year in Athens when he overheard a player complaining about the strength program Reeve was implementing prior to his first season.  Grobe said he went over and put his arm around the player and said, "Son, we managed to go 0-11 with you on the team last year and I am sure we can do just as well this year without you".
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 5/9/2014 3:04 PM
Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
2)  A simple yes or no will do:  Are you or a close family member affiliated with the University?  'cause everyone of your posts is so 'party line' that the question must be asked.  Not that you'll have the character to answer....


But by all means Monroe, keep attacking people's character and then get your undies in a bunch if people do the same to you.  Or when people completely ignore your posts because they'd rather not "get into it" with you....only to have you claim nobody is as smart as you because nobody supplies answers to your questions.


I need you to have a better understanding of what 'discussion' is about.

It is an attack on one's character to google someone's name and troll trashy throw info found that way about a person into one's posts (hello poster named after a sandwich).  It is not attacking or inappropriate to question a poster's motivation when that poster's content is entirely in line with/could pass for the party line of the University.  Discussion is legitimate, relevant discourse.

I have no problem with people not reading anyone's posts.  But a little integrity and asking someone to adhere to the spirit of these forums is fair.
Last Edited: 5/9/2014 3:05:41 PM by Monroe Slavin
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 5/9/2014 3:43 PM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
Despite several very disappointing losses the past two years, 17 wins is very impressive when you consider that is exact same number of wins we had under Cleve and Coach Lichtenberg for 10 years (1985-1994).

In terms of a strength coach, I think Ethan Reeve was the first fulltime strength coach we had when he came here with Jim Grobe in 1995.

About ten years ago my neighbor who graduated from Wake Forest went with me to hear Grobe speak here in Richmond.  Grobe was talking about his first year in Athens when he overheard a player complaining about the strength program Reeve was implementing prior to his first season.  Grobe said he went over and put his arm around the player and said, "Son, we managed to go 0-11 with you on the team last year and I am sure we can do just as well this year without you".


That sounds like Grobe.  Once when he knew I was going to be in Athens guest lecturing, he invited me to join him to watch practice.  As I was entering Peden, I saw one player jogging the field's perimeter.  I walked to Grobe, shook hands and asked, "What's with him?"

Grobe paused before answering, waiting till the player was within earshot and then said laconically, "He used a word he shouldn't have."

The player grinned sheepishly and continued his penalty laps.
71 BOBCAT
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Posted: 5/9/2014 5:09 PM
The last 2 years were injury riddled. Had the injury situation been more normal I firmly believe that we would have won an additional 4-5 games between the 2 years.




GO BOBCATS
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