Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Greg Windham
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colobobcat66
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:40 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
....I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have zero confidence in this staff to make the right personnel decisions.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, if it suits you, and I presume from the strong way that you stated it that it means that you have a definite opinion about some people who should be playing more. Therefore, I have to ask which of these you think should be starters?:
LT - Lowery So
LG - Alcorn RSo
C - Pruehs So
RG - Anderson So
RT - McCray So
TE - Morgan RSo
QB - Sprague RJr or Windham RJr
RB - Patterson Sr
WR/F - Walker So
WR/X - Brunis So
WR/Z - Sawyer RSr

DE - Smart RSo
DE - Berger RFr
NT - Aloese RSo
DT - Porter RSo
MLB - Grillot RSo
WLB - C Moore RSo
SLB - Daugherty RSo
CB - Bass RSr
CB - Brunson So OR Fox RFr
FS - Macer RSr
SS - Nelson So

Obviously every one of them per Paul, because the staff is so inept and incompetent.
C Money
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Posted: 8/3/2015 7:02 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
LG - Alcorn RSo
RG - Anderson So
Did I miss news on Nick Gibbons? He's been a part-time starter at guard and now he isn't even on the 2 deep.
OhioBobcat
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:05 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
...
I can't remember Windham completing 8 in a row at the end of the BG game. But if that is so, I'd sure as hell have given him some more play. 4 or 5 in a row could be lucky or the defense not being prepared. 8 in a row is edging into 'this guy seems to have it' territory....

I looked it up, and it was 7 in a row:
1st and 10 at OHIO 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the Ohio 44
2nd and 4 at OHIO 44 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the 50 yard line for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at 50 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 12 yds to the BwGrn 38 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 24 yds to the BwGrn 14 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 14 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 6 yds to the BwGrn 8
2nd and 4 at BGSU 8 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 4 yds to the BwGrn 4 for a 1ST down
1st and Goal at BGSU 4 Greg Windham pass complete to Dorian Brown for 3 yds to the BwGrn 1

On the next play BG took over at their own 21, and it doesn't say how. Perhaps a fumble, combined with a penalty?

In any case, for the year Ohio's pass efficiencies last year were:
Vick 130.9
Windham 129.9
Sprague 99.9

As I said before, however, there is more to being a QB than just passing. In whatever areas he was behind, Bobcatblitz assures us that he has been working hard, so we may see a lot more of him this fall.
We need to take his performance vs BG with a bit of salt. It came on Ohio's last drive of the game, when BG had it iced away and was playing subs, for the worst D in MAC. (The drive ended on a Brown fumble -- the only run of the drive -- and a 15-yd personal foul penalty after BG recovered.) The rest of the season he was 2-5 for 26 yds. (bad percentage but a decent per-completion average). He's a junior this season so he should get more of a chance to show what he can do.
This. BG had that game in the bag at that point which is essentially why he was in there in the first place. They gave us anything we wanted underneath and played us not to get beat over the top. They were trading yards for seconds off the clock at that point.
Bcat2
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Posted: 8/3/2015 10:16 PM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
...
I can't remember Windham completing 8 in a row at the end of the BG game. But if that is so, I'd sure as hell have given him some more play. 4 or 5 in a row could be lucky or the defense not being prepared. 8 in a row is edging into 'this guy seems to have it' territory....

I looked it up, and it was 7 in a row:
1st and 10 at OHIO 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the Ohio 44
2nd and 4 at OHIO 44 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the 50 yard line for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at 50 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 12 yds to the BwGrn 38 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 24 yds to the BwGrn 14 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 14 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 6 yds to the BwGrn 8
2nd and 4 at BGSU 8 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 4 yds to the BwGrn 4 for a 1ST down
1st and Goal at BGSU 4 Greg Windham pass complete to Dorian Brown for 3 yds to the BwGrn 1

On the next play BG took over at their own 21, and it doesn't say how. Perhaps a fumble, combined with a penalty?

In any case, for the year Ohio's pass efficiencies last year were:
Vick 130.9
Windham 129.9
Sprague 99.9

As I said before, however, there is more to being a QB than just passing. In whatever areas he was behind, Bobcatblitz assures us that he has been working hard, so we may see a lot more of him this fall.
We need to take his performance vs BG with a bit of salt. It came on Ohio's last drive of the game, when BG had it iced away and was playing subs, for the worst D in MAC. (The drive ended on a Brown fumble -- the only run of the drive -- and a 15-yd personal foul penalty after BG recovered.) The rest of the season he was 2-5 for 26 yds. (bad percentage but a decent per-completion average). He's a junior this season so he should get more of a chance to show what he can do.
This. BG had that game in the bag at that point which is essentially why he was in there in the first place. They gave us anything we wanted underneath and played us not to get beat over the top. They were trading yards for seconds off the clock at that point.
Still, what we want from the QB is to read then execute. Sure it was against subs, but, he passed. Monroe nor Paul will give Vick full credit for his four TD game, but, hey, he executed the offense well which I appreciate.
L.C.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:03 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Obviously every one of them per Paul, because the staff is so inept and incompetent.

I agree that, if his post is to be taken literally, it means exactly that. I took his post as hyperbole, and offered him a chance to clear up what he really meant.

Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Still, what we want from the QB is to read then execute. Sure it was against subs, but, he passed. Monroe nor Paul will give Vick full credit for his four TD game, but, hey, he executed the offense well which I appreciate.

Even against subs, he still has to make the throws. My recollection is that his passes were crisply executed, and right on target.
Last Edited: 8/3/2015 11:05:58 PM by L.C.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 8/4/2015 1:56 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
...
I can't remember Windham completing 8 in a row at the end of the BG game. But if that is so, I'd sure as hell have given him some more play. 4 or 5 in a row could be lucky or the defense not being prepared. 8 in a row is edging into 'this guy seems to have it' territory....

I looked it up, and it was 7 in a row:
1st and 10 at OHIO 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the Ohio 44
2nd and 4 at OHIO 44 Greg Windham pass complete to Chase Cochran for 6 yds to the 50 yard line for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at 50 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 12 yds to the BwGrn 38 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 38 Greg Windham pass complete to Aaron Bradley for 24 yds to the BwGrn 14 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at BGSU 14 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 6 yds to the BwGrn 8
2nd and 4 at BGSU 8 Greg Windham pass complete to Sebastian Smith for 4 yds to the BwGrn 4 for a 1ST down
1st and Goal at BGSU 4 Greg Windham pass complete to Dorian Brown for 3 yds to the BwGrn 1

On the next play BG took over at their own 21, and it doesn't say how. Perhaps a fumble, combined with a penalty?

In any case, for the year Ohio's pass efficiencies last year were:
Vick 130.9
Windham 129.9
Sprague 99.9

As I said before, however, there is more to being a QB than just passing. In whatever areas he was behind, Bobcatblitz assures us that he has been working hard, so we may see a lot more of him this fall.
We need to take his performance vs BG with a bit of salt. It came on Ohio's last drive of the game, when BG had it iced away and was playing subs, for the worst D in MAC. (The drive ended on a Brown fumble -- the only run of the drive -- and a 15-yd personal foul penalty after BG recovered.) The rest of the season he was 2-5 for 26 yds. (bad percentage but a decent per-completion average). He's a junior this season so he should get more of a chance to show what he can do.
This. BG had that game in the bag at that point which is essentially why he was in there in the first place. They gave us anything we wanted underneath and played us not to get beat over the top. They were trading yards for seconds off the clock at that point.
Still, what we want from the QB is to read then execute. Sure it was against subs, but, he passed. Monroe nor Paul will give Vick full credit for his four TD game, but, hey, he executed the offense well which I appreciate.

Typical for you: ignoring reality or taking a small sample as if it's the whole truth.

Vick played well in that 4 td game. But 1) the oppo was inferior and 2) has he consistently played at that level since...or is there contrary, evidence of lesser quality play?

I like Vick. He's spirited, gives his all. However, I'm not sure that he's consistently performed at the necessary level.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/4/2015 8:36 AM
The 4TD game was against who?
D.A.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 10:26 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
The 4TD game was against who?
I believe that was '13, Norfolk State.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 8/4/2015 12:38 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Obviously every one of them per Paul, because the staff is so inept and incompetent.

I agree that, if his post is to be taken literally, it means exactly that. I took his post as hyperbole, and offered him a chance to clear up what he really meant.
Yes, it was hyperbole. But if you watched most snaps from 2014...and I saw almost all of them...and you've come to the conclusion that we are OK at the QB position, then you are living in a different reality than I am.

Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story...you can show me QB ratings that show our guys as middle of the pack in the MAC or just below it. But when we had to move the ball against above average (ie not terrible) competition we couldn't do it. And a lot of that was sub-par QB play.

I predicted this in 2013 when TT was begging to be yanked off the field and Solich wouldn't capitulate. I figured that Frank had little confidence in our backups. So I assumed we would see a JUCO transfer get a shot in 2014, but it didn't happen. Then this passed offseason - after the terrible play we say last year - surely we'd get a JUCO or a 5'th year or someone! But nope! Again we'll roll out the same group and expect different results.
L.C.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 1:26 PM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
... Again we'll roll out the same group and expect different results.

Thanks for the clarification. It still doesn't address the question of whether the coaches are playing the best choice among those they have or not, but no point beating that dead horse. Moving on, though, there are several reason why I think QB play will be better this fall:

OFFENSIVE LINE
The first reason is the offensive line. The QB doesn't play in a vacuum. For runs to work, the line needs to make room. For passes to work, the line needs to give the QB time. Last year Ohio had one of the least experienced offensive lines in the country, and that meant little room to run. That in turn meant that the offense became one-dimensional - forced to pass, which allowed the defenders to get after the QB, forcing them to scramble and often throw off balance. Honestly, no QB is going to look very good playing behind a line that includes (at times) 3 true Freshmen.

The most appalling example of line failure was the CMU game. CMU had so little respect for Ohio's running game that they played essentially the who game in a nickle defense. Ohio would line up with 8 players in the middle of the field, and 3 wide receivers, and CMU would defend with 5 dbs and 6 in the box. That meant Sprague, when he passed, usually had to throw into double coverage. Normally when a team does that you just run the ball and take the 5 easy yards every play until the other team brings more players into the box. Take away one 49 run by Daz, and Ohio's running backs gained only 39 yards on 15 carries, 2.6 yards a carry, and you can't sustain a drive with that. Since running was futile, Ohio passed (into double coverage), and Srague completed 1/3 of his passes. Could Ohio have brought more TEs in, and improved the running game? No, that would make it worse. Luring a defender out of the play by lining a receiver wide is just as effective as blocking him. With 3 WR being covered by 5 DBs, that meant Ohio was trying to run the ball 8 on 6, and failing. Bring in anther TE, and they will cover your 2 WR with three DBs, and put 8 in the box. Now you are trying to run the ball 9 on 8. If you can't run the ball 8 on 6, 9 on 8 is not going to be better. It will take me a long time to forget that game....

For 2015 all the starters on the offensive line, and all of the backups return, and in addition two jucos and a former starter who sat out last year due to an injury are added to the mix. The offensive line will be much improved, and that means a more effective running game, and more time to pass, plus the ability to mix up play calls, rather than being forced to be one dimensional. The same QB will therefore look much better, not because he is better, but because the circumstances around him make his job much easier. Remember - a play-action pass is not going to work very well if they don't fear the run and the pass will have to be perfect, but when the do bite, and come up fast to stop the run, the receiver is ofter wide open, and the pass will be easy.

RUNNING BACKS
Presuming he doesn't get hurt this year, AJ will be a load. I expect Daz to provide a change of pace, and either Irons or Brown, or both, to jump into the mix as well, and provide some excitement. I don't expect fumbles this year, and so these running backs, combined with the improvement of the offensive line will take a lot of load off the QBs.

EXPERIENCE
For a QB, a year of experience means a lot. I expect that each of the QBs spent a lot of time over the winter looking at film of what they did last year, both right and wrong, and trying to learn from it. When a QB (or any player) has to "think" and react they are slower and less accurate than if they can just react. This is commonly referred to as the game "slowing down for them".

These are the reasons I'm not overly concerned about the QB position. Even if the QBs didn't improve, the improvement in the line and running backs would make their life much easier, and they would look better, but I also expect them to improve. I think any of the three will look better in 2015 than any of them looked in 2014.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 8/4/2015 2:59 PM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
Obviously every one of them per Paul, because the staff is so inept and incompetent.

I agree that, if his post is to be taken literally, it means exactly that. I took his post as hyperbole, and offered him a chance to clear up what he really meant.
Yes, it was hyperbole. But if you watched most snaps from 2014...and I saw almost all of them...and you've come to the conclusion that we are OK at the QB position, then you are living in a different reality than I am.

Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story...you can show me QB ratings that show our guys as middle of the pack in the MAC or just below it. But when we had to move the ball against above average (ie not terrible) competition we couldn't do it. And a lot of that was sub-par QB play.

I predicted this in 2013 when TT was begging to be yanked off the field and Solich wouldn't capitulate. I figured that Frank had little confidence in our backups. So I assumed we would see a JUCO transfer get a shot in 2014, but it didn't happen. Then this passed offseason - after the terrible play we say last year - surely we'd get a JUCO or a 5'th year or someone! But nope! Again we'll roll out the same group and expect different results.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 3:09 PM
As the season progresses, I expect this will continue to be a hot topic. Is the best QB playing? Are any of the QBs good enough to get the job done? Is the offensive line good enough to make the running game work?

Right now we only have opinions, but in a month and a half we'll have some data to go on. Once we do, the discussion will be a lot more meaningful. Between 2005 and 2006 I spent the off-season arguing that Everson would be fine in 2006, but with a very good offensive line, and s strong running back group of McRae, Owens, and Abrams, I turned out to be correct. Only time will tell if I'm right again.
Last Edited: 8/4/2015 3:18:28 PM by L.C.
L.C.
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Posted: 8/8/2015 2:04 PM
From a tweet today
Arkley wrote:expand_more
QB Greg Windham keep getting better. Nice rhythm throws in team portion, including sharp pass to Herman Brunis on a comeback


Per Arkley, Solich has been including Windham's name among those who might end up being names as the starter, and in Fall camp they are dividing the reps 4 ways. Vick, Sprague, and Windham each get 1/4 of the reps, and the other fourth is being split between Maxwell and Duckworth.
Last Edited: 8/9/2015 10:08:46 PM by L.C.
The Optimist
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Posted: 8/9/2015 10:13 PM
I hope Windham gets some time in the Idaho game. I think his ceiling is as high as any of our QB's with as good as his arm is.
Last Edited: 8/9/2015 10:14:39 PM by The Optimist
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