Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Missouri football
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 11/11/2015 10:53 AM
Yeah, death threats and intimidation are something to just brush off. Some of you are amazing.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/11/2015 11:08 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
So the systemic racism that's plagued our society for hundreds of years is invalidated?
I don't think that anyone here is saying anything like that. It's just that the exploitation by activist groups of many of the recent situations that have received so much news coverage have done little to improve race relations and, in fact, have probably done the opposite. Some of these folks are still living in the 1950s and '60s, even if they weren't born until a later decade. Times have changed. Tactics should too. As one who lived through the Civil Rights Era and who has friends who were leaders in it, I can tell you that it's a much different "enemy" that's being faced today. I will admit that there are very small remnants of that old society that still exist today, but they are on the fringes and not in the mainstream as they were in the mid-20th Century. The battle today should be focused on the economic empowerment of the African American community. It should be on teaching job skills, self-dependency and responsibility. It should be on rebuilding the black family. It's ironic that back in the 1950s and early '60s the black family experienced less divorce and had more cohesiveness, statistically, than the white family. Today, the situation is horrible reversed. Something is very wrong with our national policies and priorities that is not being addressed. That's the real underlying issue.
Last Edited: 11/11/2015 12:14:01 PM by OhioCatFan
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/11/2015 11:55 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
cc-cat, what about your boy down there in Charlotte? Not many athletes in our lifetime has had the platform like Michael Jordan, yet he chose/chooses to not get involved in any social issue. Some would argue that his approach has been the wrong one and that he should have continued what Jim Brown and Ali did in their heyday. (And I understand his reasoning - too much endorsement $$)

While not a LeBron James fan, I gained a lot of respect for him last spring when he wore a "Black Lives Matter" t-shirt in pre-game warmups. The easy thing would be for these football players and James to not do anything. I give these athletes credit for standing up for what they feel is wrong because to do nothing is just being part of the problem.
Agree, Jordan ("Republicans buy sneakers too"), Woods and others buried their head rather than voice their views on social and justice issues (one does not need to be the oppressed, or poor to take a stand). I too give credit to James, Durant, and others who are following in the steps of Bill Russell, Walton, Jim Brown and others that saw their position in our society as an opportunity and responsibility to be activists on specific issues they embrace (whether you, me, or anyone else embrace the issue is irrelevant).

We in Charlotte, Athens, Columbus, have no/limited firsthand knowledge of the situation in Missouri, we can all Google, but that provides lists, and limited context. And we all have our own preconceived perspectives on the overall issue of racism in our society. That is why my interest was less in attaining people's perspective of the specific situation, and more in the shift of players and coaches from being silent to being activists. It sounds like, with a few exceptions (of which there would be on almost any situation), such growth is welcome.
The Situation
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Posted: 11/11/2015 12:58 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
That is why my interest was less in attaining people's perspective of the specific situation, and more in the shift of players and coaches from being silent to being activists. It sounds like, with a few exceptions (of which there would be on almost any situation), such growth is welcome.
Speaking on a tangent here I'll throw in a link to a philosophically connected topic:

A lengthy article ran in Fortune magazine in September about Bill Ackman's on-going siege of Herbalife. Bill is a hedge fund manager who has determined Herbalife must be destroyed.

The article centers around the question:

"Do short-sellers make good regulators?"

The article can be found here:

http://fortune.com/2015/09/09/the-siege-of-herbalife /

If I were to write an expansive piece about the Mizzu incident, my article would center around this question:

"Do athletes, celebrities, and minority activist groups make good regulators?"

Before doing any research my hypothesis is no, no they don't.
Last Edited: 11/11/2015 12:59:51 PM by The Situation
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/11/2015 1:23 PM
We are all (and should be) regulators of our society - especially as it personally impacts each of us. We are also empowered as individuals to accept or ignore the views of others - based on our perspective of their insights. Does being an athlete, celebrity, make one intelligent or insightful? Of course not. But if their personal experience compels them to to be an activists, they should not be dismissed because they wear a jock (or sports bra) - the old, "shut up and play your sport" attitude. My prediction of your hypothesis is that you will find when an athlete has personal involvement in a situation they are a viable, valuable, and relevant voice (due to the volume they can provide) in the "regulatory" process. When they lend a voice simply as a means of furthering their celebrity, it may actually work against their "brand" and the cause.

As I stated in another post, presenting ones voice comes with responsibility and accountability. The challenge will be for student-athletes to not become pawns in the "activists' world, but to stand-up (when they feel compelled) and take their own stand. But then, that is a challenge we all must face. Taking a stand is easy when you know the outcome/personal implications. The courage is in doing so when you do not know what awaits you.
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Posted: 11/11/2015 1:35 PM
Whoa. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwkwaaaaaaaaaaard.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/amazing-sports-ra... /
The Situation
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Posted: 11/11/2015 2:33 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
My prediction of your hypothesis is that you will find when an athlete has personal involvement in a situation they are a viable, valuable, and relevant voice (due to the volume they can provide) in the "regulatory" process.
Athletes stating their opinion is fair game certainly and valuable with respect to the merits of the opinion alone. And that's generally limited to wearing a t-shirt or wristband to give visibility to an issue.

But holding due process ransom is the question. Is that good regulation?

Is a small group of minority activists generating immediate and significant sweeping change that directly affects a much larger group of stakeholders good regulation?
The Situation
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Posted: 11/11/2015 2:33 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Whoa. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwkwaaaaaaaaaaard.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/amazing-sports-ra... /
That radio host is a heavy hitter. I love it.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/11/2015 2:45 PM
I know it's being used in a different way here, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the use of the terms "regulation" and "regulator" in this context. This was the term used by the KKK and like organizations during Reconstruction to describe the job they were doing. In fact, sometimes notes of intimidation were left on the doorsteps of Republicans, Carpetbaggers, and "uppity blacks" (categories not mutually exclusive) that were signed, "The Regulators." These were often threats of assassination and murder if their demands weren't followed. And, as you know, these weren't idle threats.

Sorry, but I think it's important to know the historical meaning of the words we choose to use to describe a current issue. I'm not meaning here to cast aspersions on the merits, or lack therefore, of any of the arguments using these terms.
Last Edited: 11/11/2015 2:46:55 PM by OhioCatFan
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/11/2015 3:36 PM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
Athletes stating their opinion is fair game certainly and valuable with respect to the merits of the opinion alone. And that's generally limited to wearing a t-shirt or wristband to give visibility to an issue.
- The range has and will continue to be from firm action (Ali is obviously a classic example) to wearing a T-shirt. My prediction is we will see a migration to more stance and less statement - for that is the direction of our overall society - for better or worse. As the saying goes, talk is cheap, but money walks.

The Situation wrote:expand_more
But holding due process ransom is the question. Is that good regulation?
The protesters would argue it was due process that was not taking place. That said, I agree the demand for resignation was extreme vs. the University finally taking some steps to address what has been years of concern (not simply the highlighted last few incidence).

The Situation wrote:expand_more
Is a small group of minority activists generating immediate and significant sweeping change that directly affects a much larger group of stakeholders good regulation?
for better or worse this has always been a condition: "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." Sam Adams

What has changed is the immediacy of our communications and, therefore, our society. Everything is real-time. Everyone wants immediate justice - immediate action - regardless of what side you are on we grasp a few components of a situation, often not knowing (and for some, not caring) how true, complete, or contextual that information is.

This situation fully illustrates today's society - both in the immediacy of the action, the extent of the action, and the response/reaction/views of others.

As I have stated before, none of us have personal, specific insight into the situation on the campus - yet opinions and lines are drawn as evident by posts in this thread. And. like everywhere else in our society, inaction and lack of attention was applied to the situation (whatever it may be) on the campus until dollars and loss of dollars came into the equation. Dollars and cents was the leverage of the players. They could wear a wristband, but boycott of a game was the leverage.

Is it right to give so few the power? Is (as you state) "a small group of minority (I assume I correctly read that as a definition of a percentage, not a racial group) activists generating immediate and significant sweeping change that directly affects a much larger group of stakeholders good regulation? No - but the reality is we have almost always afforded that power to a few - Based on whoever has had the leverage (most often financially or politically driven).

Our society, for better or worse, has now raised athletics to the level of garnering power. Again, this situation illustrates our society. The faculty supports the protests and conduct walk outs. Big deal. No classes. - no action takes place. no media shows up. Players join in. No game? No money? Big deal.

Wrist bands and a raised gloved hand are last century. New leverage has been afforded to athletes and they will start to use it - even if it means the glove holding due process ransom is now on the other hand.

Anyway, unless there are alcoholic beverages involved I'm done pontificating. My interest in this thread is that college athletes now realize it does not matter if the NCAA says they can be paid or not - or whether they can wear a shirt in protest of a situation. They now realize they have significant power - as afforded by our society. And they will start to use that power. The next interesting point will be when those in current power (in this instance, the old guard, boosters, etc.) look to assure THEIR control. What happens when the players from Kentucky and Duke take the court for the Championship Game wearing shirts protesting a situation and refuse to remove them or, As someone mentioned above, Alabama and Clemson refuse to take the field at all. Interesting times ahead. Personally I'm surprised it took this long for the initial tipping point to be realized.
Last Edited: 11/11/2015 4:00:09 PM by cc-cat
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 11/11/2015 7:53 PM
For what it's worth, I will pass along this little vignette from my days in Athens in the 1980s. In one of my many jobs on and off campus, I got to know an African-American gentleman who reminded me of the groundskeeper in the movie Rudy. A real no nonsense guy. As time went on, I came to learn of his involvement in Civil Rights Movement and he had some great stories.

Yet, he was not a fan of post 1960s activists. His blood also boiled when he saw anyone badmouthing Capitalism, the US military etc. He called most of them (of any race) "children of privilege, posers and charlatans." He would often say, "I wish these kids would use their privilege to help others and themselves not try to tear down the fabric of our society and culture." He didn't get modern protests and even in the 1980s warned anyone who would listen about those he dubbed "protest chic." Just my two cents worth.
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Posted: 11/11/2015 9:51 PM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
Ok, so it sounds like whoever told me about "race riots" was combining at least two separate events. Whether that was due to old age or mind-altering substances only God knows :P
I actually distinctly remember the Post publishing an article about the aforementioned "race riots", though I think it might have been more tension/animus/hostility between 2 frats (one "white" and one "black")
I was a student from 1965 to 1970 in Athens no "race riot"took place. There were various large and small protests and just plain closing court street for the heck of it. May of 1970 after Kent State was a very serious riot, pepper gas not tear gas was the gas of choice. The guns may not have been loaded, I certainly would not have bet on it at the time, but the fixed bayonets on the rifles the next morning certainly were real .
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Posted: 11/11/2015 10:45 PM
David E Brightbill wrote:expand_more
...and just plain closing court street .
I was there from 79 to 83 and also enjoyed shutting down court street with squared and others
The Situation
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Posted: 11/12/2015 2:35 PM
A must read article on the recent events in Missouri:

Among the highlights are Missouri's gay black student body president using social media to spread false rumors and the black hunger striker who asked the University President to check his white privilege in spite of his father's $8mm salary. This of course after he spent 8 years on campus in fear for his life.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-cov...
Last Edited: 11/12/2015 2:36:04 PM by The Situation
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Posted: 11/12/2015 4:07 PM
David E Brightbill wrote:expand_more
Ok, so it sounds like whoever told me about "race riots" was combining at least two separate events. Whether that was due to old age or mind-altering substances only God knows :P
I actually distinctly remember the Post publishing an article about the aforementioned "race riots", though I think it might have been more tension/animus/hostility between 2 frats (one "white" and one "black")
I was a student from 1965 to 1970 in Athens no "race riot"took place. There were various large and small protests and just plain closing court street for the heck of it. May of 1970 after Kent State was a very serious riot, pepper gas not tear gas was the gas of choice. The guns may not have been loaded, I certainly would not have bet on it at the time, but the fixed bayonets on the rifles the next morning certainly were real .
In 1970 the Ohio National Guard was using M-14 rifles.
Those rifles had an external magazine.
If you look at the pictures of the Guardsmen standing on the streets, its clear the rifles did not have magazines,hence,unloaded.
One of my friends who was in Athens in 1970 said that there was some type of announcement made after Kent,that there would be National Guard troops in Athens,but their weapons would not be loaded.
To me a fixed bayonet is be pretty scary,loaded rifle or not
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 11/12/2015 5:56 PM
Payton Head was the Homecoming "King" just a month ago and seemed to be happy to be at Missouri.

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2015/10/20/homecoming-... /

One of the original complaints that Jonathan Butler had was losing his medical insurance as a graduate student. Maybe if he did some research he would have known that the University was only following the rules of the Affordable Care Act.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/249531-...

Maybe the next time that Payton Head meets with POTUS he can state his concerns on behalf of Jonathan Butler about the Affordable Care Act directly to him?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/11/missou... /

Meanwhile, Missouri will play their "White Out" game against BYU.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/missouri-...
Last Edited: 11/12/2015 6:11:40 PM by Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 11/12/2015 9:05 PM
The lack of empathy on this posting is kind of sick, I am glad there are some people who can understand that just because it doesnt effect you, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This isn't isolated to Missouri, Death threats have been issued, and you're arguing about the president being fired and football players refusing to play.

Priorities are all out of whack.
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Posted: 11/12/2015 9:07 PM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
One of the original complaints that Jonathan Butler had was losing his medical insurance as a graduate student. Maybe if he did some research he would have known that the University was only following the rules of the Affordable Care Act.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/249531-...
I am 99% sure that an ex-professor (secondary posting) of journalism at Missouri, as well as countless others (likely including 1 or 2 on this board) would like nothing more than to figuratively (lol, I actually mean literally) immolate you for pointing that out.
The Situation
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Posted: 11/12/2015 10:35 PM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
One of the original complaints that Jonathan Butler had was losing his medical insurance as a graduate student. Maybe if he did some research he would have known that the University was only following the rules of the Affordable Care Act.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/249531-...
I am 99% sure that an ex-professor (secondary posting) of journalism at Missouri, as well as countless others (likely including 1 or 2 on this board) would like nothing more than to figuratively (lol, I actually mean literally) immolate you for pointing that out.
+1
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Posted: 11/13/2015 7:57 AM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
One of the original complaints that Jonathan Butler had was losing his medical insurance as a graduate student. Maybe if he did some research he would have known that the University was only following the rules of the Affordable Care Act.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/249531-...
I am 99% sure that an ex-professor (secondary posting) of journalism at Missouri, as well as countless others (likely including 1 or 2 on this board) would like nothing more than to figuratively (lol, I actually mean literally) immolate you for pointing that out.
What I want to know is how many people who read your post had to look up the meaning of "immolate".

Always thought I had a pretty good vocabulary,but I'll be the first to say I did.
Toast
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Posted: 11/13/2015 10:15 AM
This is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U


Eastcoastcat wrote:expand_more
The lack of empathy on this posting is kind of sick, I am glad there are some people who can understand that just because it doesnt effect you, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

This isn't isolated to Missouri, Death threats have been issued, and you're arguing about the president being fired and football players refusing to play.

Priorities are all out of whack.
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Posted: 11/13/2015 3:14 PM
Will tackling of the Miz"Zoo"ers be allowed tomorrow or will they declare themselves to be in their "safe-zone" and therefore untouchable?
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Posted: 11/13/2015 5:47 PM
On top of all of this, Pinkel is dealing with a serious illness. All my best to him!

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14122405/c...
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/14/2015 6:49 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
So the systemic racism that's plagued our society for hundreds of years is invalidated?
I don't think that anyone here is saying anything like that. It's just that the exploitation by activist groups of many of the recent situations that have received so much news coverage have done little to improve race relations and, in fact, have probably done the opposite. Some of these folks are still living in the 1950s and '60s, even if they weren't born until a later decade. Times have changed. Tactics should too. As one who lived through the Civil Rights Era and who has friends who were leaders in it, I can tell you that it's a much different "enemy" that's being faced today. I will admit that there are very small remnants of that old society that still exist today, but they are on the fringes and not in the mainstream as they were in the mid-20th Century. The battle today should be focused on the economic empowerment of the African American community. It should be on teaching job skills, self-dependency and responsibility. It should be on rebuilding the black family. It's ironic that back in the 1950s and early '60s the black family experienced less divorce and had more cohesiveness, statistically, than the white family. Today, the situation is horrible reversed. Something is very wrong with our national policies and priorities that is not being addressed. That's the real underlying issue.
I think that's absolutely right, but I think the issues you underline--job skills, the strengthening of the black family, etc.--are so systemic that I think all of these various issues address those things. Your assertion that activist groups are exploiting this issue just doesn't feel right to me; that blacks in America are far less likely to graduate from college and that the culture on college campuses is not always as welcoming to black students as it could be is not unrelated to issues like the job skills, imprisonment rates, etc.

There's a conversation to be had here, and when an oppressed group speaks up and says so, I don't think it's healthy that a large swath of our country looks for reasons to discredit them. That a leader in this movement has a wealthy father, or that individuals and certain demands are misguided, are simply excuses being used to avoid acknowledging the core of the issue.

I see very little empathy, and no effort to try and understand viewpoints that differ on this issue, and refusal to even have a conversation about the issues at hand because of the individuals involved is mere petulance.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 11/14/2015 6:59 PM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
One of the original complaints that Jonathan Butler had was losing his medical insurance as a graduate student. Maybe if he did some research he would have known that the University was only following the rules of the Affordable Care Act.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/249531-...
I am 99% sure that an ex-professor (secondary posting) of journalism at Missouri, as well as countless others (likely including 1 or 2 on this board) would like nothing more than to figuratively (lol, I actually mean literally) immolate you for pointing that out.
And yet, nobody did so.

I, frankly, don't understand what this has to do with anything. So the affordable care act cost him his health insurance, but he still supports Obama. So the guy isn't a single issue voter. What's the point of pointing this out? I voted for Obama; I disagree with many things that he's done. I simply disagreed with more of the policies put forward by his opponents. Again, the overwhelming desire to paint the individuals involved here as hypocritical for one reason or another is just an argument against discourse.
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