Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Same movie...seeya next year
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Mike Johnson
12/21/2015 2:20 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
We are more likely to lose to Texas State than Kansas. Kansas is bad. Really, really bad.
Texas State Bobcats finished 3-9 with wins over Prairie View, ULM (2-10) and South Alabama (5-7. They had two reasonably close losses - by 6 to Southern Miss and 7 to Idaho. Their other loss margins ranged from 10 (New Mx St) to 40 or more to Florida St and Houston plus 38 to Arkansas St.

Kansas finished 0-12. It had 3 close losses - by 3 to South Dakota St, 6 to Texas Tech, 6 to TCU. Its next closest loss was to Rutgers by 13. The Jayhawks were blown away by 30 or more points 7 times.
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cbus cat fan
12/21/2015 3:35 PM
With a little more talent on the roster, this kind of discussion would not be happening. Take a look at the talent assessment on recruiting boards (I realize it is far from an exact science.) Just look at where the bottom MAC schools, let alone the bottom, SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and PAC 12 schools were rated.

Did we have any 3 star recruits last year? How many 3 star recruits did the MAC get combined? If the Big Boys get too many 3 star recruits it is considered to be a recruiting disaster. We can talk all we want about what Coach Solich should have or should not have done.

Frankly, I am stunned that we can even compete with the likes of even a Minnesota with the kind of talent we get. No matter how sophisticated the offense, you can't have a successful team if no one blocks or tackles. The same holds true for the bigger picture; you can't expect success when you have a plethora of 1 or 2 star recruits.
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Monroe Slavin
12/21/2015 3:39 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
We are more likely to lose to Texas State than Kansas. Kansas is bad. Really, really bad.
Texas State Bobcats finished 3-9 with wins over Prairie View, ULM (2-10) and South Alabama (5-7. They had two reasonably close losses - by 6 to Southern Miss and 7 to Idaho. Their other loss margins ranged from 10 (New Mx St) to 40 or more to Florida St and Houston plus 38 to Arkansas St.

Kansas finished 0-12. It had 3 close losses - by 3 to South Dakota St, 6 to Texas Tech, 6 to TCU. Its next closest loss was to Rutgers by 13. The Jayhawks were blown away by 30 or more points 7 times.


Mike--How many games do you see on our sched next year that it would be difficult for us to lose? That is, how many pretty much 'gimmes' are there?

I realize that every school has some on their schedule, but over the last few years we seem to be kinda depending on them (at least in re bowl eligible).
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allen
12/21/2015 4:16 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
With a little more talent on the roster, this kind of discussion would not be happening. Take a look at the talent assessment on recruiting boards (I realize it is far from an exact science.) Just look at where the bottom MAC schools, let alone the bottom, SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and PAC 12 schools were rated.

Did we have any 3 star recruits last year? How many 3 star recruits did the MAC get combined? If the Big Boys get too many 3 star recruits it is considered to be a recruiting disaster. We can talk all we want about what Coach Solich should have or should not have done.

Frankly, I am stunned that we can even compete with the likes of even a Minnesota with the kind of talent we get. No matter how sophisticated the offense, you can't have a successful team if no one blocks or tackles. The same holds true for the bigger picture; you can't expect success when you have a plethora of 1 or 2 star recruits.


Well Toledo, BGSU and NIU must be miracle workers. Top tier MAC teams should beat lower tier Big Ten Teams. This has always been the case. We are not top tier MAC, we are middle of the pack.
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C Money
12/21/2015 4:43 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
We are more likely to lose to Texas State than Kansas. Kansas is bad. Really, really bad.
Texas State Bobcats finished 3-9 with wins over Prairie View, ULM (2-10) and South Alabama (5-7. They had two reasonably close losses - by 6 to Southern Miss and 7 to Idaho. Their other loss margins ranged from 10 (New Mx St) to 40 or more to Florida St and Houston plus 38 to Arkansas St.

Kansas finished 0-12. It had 3 close losses - by 3 to South Dakota St, 6 to Texas Tech, 6 to TCU. Its next closest loss was to Rutgers by 13. The Jayhawks were blown away by 30 or more points 7 times.
Kansas was basically an FCS roster this year due to scholarship stupidity. Charlie Weis went all-in on JUCO transfers and failed miserably. This year they had only 64 or 65 scholarship players (fewer than Penn State under sanctions). They'll have more next year, but it still won't be a full roster.
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OU_Country
12/21/2015 5:00 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I doubt we see any major changes. Our coaches philosophy and our OC play calling are not going to suddenly change their stripes. I don't see a stud qb on the horizon. Our recruiting appears to be middle of the pack in the Mac. Hopefully a few redshirt freshman will come out of nowhere but who knows. Running game could see an uptick. But the only other area I could see for potential big change is that we somehow stay Much healthier next year. Here's hoping for that.
Sad but true, nothing will change
Painfully agree. As much as I wish we were wrong.

Texas State - W
@ Tennessee - L
@ Kansas - L
Gardner-Webb - W
BG - L
@ Miami - W
@ Kent - W
Akron - W
UB - W
MAC West Trio (have to hope to get EMU)
EMU - W
2 of these 4 (UT, WMU, NIU, Ball, CMU) - L, L

7-5 (5-3)

Another middle-tier MAC Bowl tie-In where we'll face a mid-level Sun Belt team and lose

7-6 season.

DON'T DENY THESE HARD WORKING BOYS THEIR SUCCESS!

Same movie....see ya next year.

Meh.
I can see a scenario where there are maybe 1-2 more wins in that list you show, but nothing more unless something improves on offense. BG loses Johnson (right?) to graduation, so that might help. Ball State isn't terribly good if we get them, and Kansas isn't special. But that's as optimistic as I can be unless something improves on offense. I don't mind too much - I'll still get 3 good tailgating days out of the fall!
Yeah...Ball State is a winnable game...but it would be there this year (I'd guess since they were in Athens last year)....plus they were young and should be better next year.

Kansas is, well, Kansas. But that's a Big XII team on the road.....and with our current state, I'm hesitant to say we walk into Lawrence and win.

BG does lose Johnson...but return Knapke, who did a pretty good job filling in for him two years ago when they went to MACC

And yes.....I agree 1000% we'll get at least 3 good tailgating days out of the fall! And if the MAC would wake up and discontinue these midweek charades, we'd have a few more. I'm cool with a couple midweek MACtion games...but four is excessive.

You know, I'm not opposed to the midweek MACtion. I'm opposed to almost all of the conference playing midweek MACtion in the same week. I'd rather see them be able to cherry pick two good games for Tues/Wed nights and not have 8 MAC teams out of 12 playing on Tues/Wed some weeks. It's great for the promotion of the league to be sure, but I think it could be done better. If you're a MAC school, and you get that one ESPN game a year to sell to your fans, it could be made into a huge deal. Plus, I'd like to have one more October/November day to tailgate rather than all of them being September and early Oct. It's a pipe dream because it won't happen.
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cbus cat fan
12/21/2015 7:34 PM
Allen, with regard to Top Mac schools beating bottom level Big 10 schools. Actually, if you look at sheer recruiting it should not be the case. Even low level Big 10 teams get 3 star and an occasional 4 star recruit. This just doesn't happen in the MAC. Perhaps someone wiser than me can find a year where more than two MAC schools got a 4 star recruit in the same year, let alone a 5 star recruit. It just doesn't happen. When was the last time the Bobcats in any sport got a 5 star recruit? We may have to go to early 1970s basketball and talk Walter Luckett, which led to the Bobcats only appearance (November 1972) on Sports Illustrated.
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allen
12/21/2015 7:45 PM
I will agree that it is true that they get more three and four star recruits, but the atmosphere and the coaching is bad. The MAC teams are usually innovative, they have great pass offenses and enough athletes to spread you out and win.
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Sean Gallagher
12/21/2015 8:06 PM
At any football level (high school, college or pro) success is often driven by the performance of the QB. I'm not privy to Ohio's efforts to upgrade the position. I don't know how they've assessed some of the big D1 Ohio high school prospects in recent years. I follow some of the big D1 Ohio high school football programs and see some kids that arguably are attainable and would be an improvement, but I don't know OU's specific strategy. I thought Kevin Burke (a Russell Wilson style player) who won 3 National titles at Mt. Union could have played at this level. He won the D1 Ohio football title his senior year. I thought Ramsey from from Cincinnati Elder this year was a great thrower and athlete, but I think Indiana has him. Burke from St. Ed's last year ended up at South Florida. I know OU offered, but I'm not sure what effort they put into trying to get him. I also know OU does have one of the former Mentor QB's who may get a chance. That said, I'm not suggesting that you can get all these kids, or compete with all of the bigger schools, but I hope they have a realistic strategy to look at some of the big program Ohio HS QB's. I know fans complain about coaching and the schemes, but the bottom line is if you don't have a QB you're probably not going to compete for a MACC.
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Diamond Cat
12/21/2015 8:41 PM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
At any football level (high school, college or pro) success is often driven by the performance of the QB. I'm not privy to Ohio's efforts to upgrade the position. I don't know how they've assessed some of the big D1 Ohio high school prospects in recent years. I follow some of the big D1 Ohio high school football programs and see some kids that arguably are attainable and would be an improvement, but I don't know OU's specific strategy. I thought Kevin Burke (a Russell Wilson style player) who won 3 National titles at Mt. Union could have played at this level. He won the D1 Ohio football title his senior year. I thought Ramsey from from Cincinnati Elder this year was a great thrower and athlete, but I think Indiana has him. Burke from St. Ed's last year ended up at South Florida. I know OU offered, but I'm not sure what effort they put into trying to get him. I also know OU does have one of the former Mentor QB's who may get a chance. That said, I'm not suggesting that you can get all these kids, or compete with all of the bigger schools, but I hope they have a realistic strategy to look at some of the big program Ohio HS QB's. I know fans complain about coaching and the schemes, but the bottom line is if you don't have a QB you're probably not going to compete for a MACC.
+1

Toledo/NIU/BG/CMU/BSU
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Monroe Slavin
12/21/2015 10:35 PM
Football is qb and pass rush, with the two being intertwined in that the team that rushes the passer well lessens the qb's effectiveness. This is obvious truth, no bolt of lightning.


We rather ignore it though, letting many qb's...a number of whom ain't so good...get over on us for lack of qb pressure, whether from down linemen or blitzing.

Happens and happens and happens. No reaction.


Qb and pass rush.
Qb and pass rush.
Last Edited: 12/21/2015 10:35:37 PM by Monroe Slavin
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cbus cat fan
12/21/2015 10:54 PM
Actually Allen those same successful MAC coaches you mentioned often go to those bottom dwelling Big Ten teams where they meet their demise and end up in the Davy Jones locker of coaches. It is not because they suddenly forgot how to coach, but their lack of talent compared to the top tier makes these successful coaches look as if they have coaching amnesia. As others have noted, a successful Qb and running back is like hitting the lottery for suddenly an average looking offensive line now looks stellar.
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allen
12/21/2015 11:04 PM
[QUOTE=cbus cat fan] Actually Allen those same successful MAC coaches you mentioned often go to those bottom dwelling Big Ten teams where they meet their demise and end up in the Davy Jones locker of coaches. It is not because they suddenly forgot how to coach, but their lack of talent compared to the top tier makes these successful coaches look as if they have coaching amnesia. As others have noted, a successful Qb and running back is like hitting the lottery for suddenly an average looking offensive line now looks stellar. [/QUOTE
Some do and some become coaching legends like Urban Meyer.
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cbus cat fan
12/21/2015 11:14 PM
Yes Allen you are right, Urban Meyer would be the exception. However, I do like the story Lou Holtz tells about how Urban Meyer was about to pull out for applying for the BG job. Coach Holtz said all the talk about Urban Meyer being a top notch assistant was playing with his mind. Coach Meyer told Coach Holtz maybe he should wait for something else. Coach Holtz told him that he wasn't good enough or big enough to wait for something else, nothing wrong with cutting your teeth at Bowling Green.
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Monroe Slavin
12/22/2015 3:51 AM
And another thing. We're competing for entertainment attention with Ohio State.

I'm not saying that it's rational to think that we'll have a team of their caliber.

I'm saying that we need to be entertaining ..and winning..such that the primary team for all OHIO people is in Athens, not Columbus.

That's not the way we play, are coached, now. We are staid, boring, predictable. No excitement.

I'm not talking excitement for excitement's sake alone. I'm talking about a little pizzazz, spirit, and variety. Two back sets, quick passes, strong pass rush, reasonable passion on offense instead of such incredible conservative. Go for points at the end of a half instead of such a high emph on not turning it over that a legit scoring effort is forsaken.

It's 2016 and marketing and verve matter.




Verve, I tell you.

But forget that; we'll see the same movie next season.
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L.C.
12/22/2015 5:28 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
You know, I'm not opposed to the midweek MACtion. I'm opposed to almost all of the conference playing midweek MACtion in the same week. I'd rather see them be able to cherry pick two good games for Tues/Wed nights and not have 8 MAC teams out of 12 playing on Tues/Wed some weeks. It's great for the promotion of the league to be sure, but I think it could be done better. If you're a MAC school, and you get that one ESPN game a year to sell to your fans, it could be made into a huge deal. Plus, I'd like to have one more October/November day to tailgate rather than all of them being September and early Oct. It's a pipe dream because it won't happen.

You can't very well have teams constantly switching back and forth from mid-week MACtion to weekend games. That's when you end up with the short weeks, or no BYE week. What they could do, however, is to select a subset of teams to do mid-week games, and leave the others on all-Saturday, all the time. Thus, say you picked 6 teams for 2016, and arranged for those 6 to play only others from the group of 6 in November, that would give you 3 mid-week games each week in November, and three Saturday games from the other 6 teams (MAC will be back to 12 teams next year). Then, the following year you could rotate, and have a different 6 do the mid-week thing.

The result would be that half the teams would be on TV in a given year, and the other half wouldn't, but would get all Saturday games instead. As you rotated through all the teams, it would average out.
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L.C.
12/22/2015 6:39 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I doubt we see any major changes. Our coaches philosophy and our OC play calling are not going to suddenly change their stripes. I don't see a stud qb on the horizon. Our recruiting appears to be middle of the pack in the Mac. Hopefully a few redshirt freshman will come out of nowhere but who knows. Running game could see an uptick. But the only other area I could see for potential big change is that we somehow stay Much healthier next year. Here's hoping for that.
Sad but true, nothing will change
Painfully agree. As much as I wish we were wrong.

Texas State - W
@ Tennessee - L
@ Kansas - L
Gardner-Webb - W
BG - L
@ Miami - W
@ Kent - W
Akron - W
UB - W
MAC West Trio (have to hope to get EMU)
EMU - W
2 of these 4 (UT, WMU, NIU, Ball, CMU) - L, L

7-5 (5-3)

Another middle-tier MAC Bowl tie-In where we'll face a mid-level Sun Belt team and lose

7-6 season.

DON'T DENY THESE HARD WORKING BOYS THEIR SUCCESS!

Same movie....see ya next year.

Meh.

If we're making early picks, I'll say that Ohio will be 10-2 in the regular season, win the MACC, and a bowl, to end up 12-2. For the last couple years I have said that this will be Solich's best team, and I still believe that. QB is not a position that concerns me. Just as Everson was fine for the 2006 team, Sprague (or anyone that beats him out) will be fine for the 2016 team.

I have but one concern. Can the offensive line continue to improve at the pace they improved over the last two years? Three starters are lost, but there is a lot of depth, and that depth needs to step up and play. I believe that Dave Johnson will earn his pay next year because I believe he is going to take those 2014 recruits (McCray-Pruehs-Lowery-Dudziak-Langenkamp), plus the older guys (Watson-Anderson-Cooper-Gibbons-Wood) and the younger guys (Grimes-Pleasants) and craft what is going to become a dominating offensive line. Behind that line, the running backs are going to rack up yards. With a powerful running game, very good returning receivers, and solid protection, Sprauge (or whoever beats him out) will look much, much better than many think possible. Think Ball State game - when the running game was rocking, and Sprauge had protection, he looked all-MAC. Contrast that to App State where the running game wasn't working, and he didn't have enough protection.

The only other position that concerns me is CB. I had expected the starters to be Brunson and Provitt, but with Brunson apparently leaving, there may be an opportunity for one of the new players (one of the Motley brothers or the JUCO) to step right in and play.

I'm less concerned about that position that the offensive line, though. Give me the offensive line I want, and Ohio is going to be the team I expect.
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GoCats105
12/22/2015 7:02 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I doubt we see any major changes. Our coaches philosophy and our OC play calling are not going to suddenly change their stripes. I don't see a stud qb on the horizon. Our recruiting appears to be middle of the pack in the Mac. Hopefully a few redshirt freshman will come out of nowhere but who knows. Running game could see an uptick. But the only other area I could see for potential big change is that we somehow stay Much healthier next year. Here's hoping for that.
Sad but true, nothing will change
Painfully agree. As much as I wish we were wrong.

Texas State - W
@ Tennessee - L
@ Kansas - L
Gardner-Webb - W
BG - L
@ Miami - W
@ Kent - W
Akron - W
UB - W
MAC West Trio (have to hope to get EMU)
EMU - W
2 of these 4 (UT, WMU, NIU, Ball, CMU) - L, L

7-5 (5-3)

Another middle-tier MAC Bowl tie-In where we'll face a mid-level Sun Belt team and lose

7-6 season.

DON'T DENY THESE HARD WORKING BOYS THEIR SUCCESS!

Same movie....see ya next year.

Meh.

If we're making early picks, I'll say that Ohio will be 10-2 in the regular season, win the MACC, and a bowl, to end up 12-2. For the last couple years I have said that this will be Solich's best team, and I still believe that. QB is not a position that concerns me. Just as Everson was fine for the 2006 team, Sprague (or anyone that beats him out) will be fine for the 2016 team.

I have but one concern. Can the offensive line continue to improve at the pace they improved over the last two years? Three starters are lost, but there is a lot of depth, and that depth needs to step up and play. I believe that Dave Johnson will earn his pay next year because I believe he is going to take those 2014 recruits (McCray-Pruehs-Lowery-Dudziak-Langenkamp), plus the older guys (Watson-Anderson-Cooper-Gibbons-Wood) and the younger guys (Grimes-Pleasants) and craft what is going to become a dominating offensive line. Behind that line, the running backs are going to rack up yards. With a powerful running game, very good returning receivers, and solid protection, Sprauge (or whoever beats him out) will look much, much better than many think possible. Think Ball State game - when the running game was rocking, and Sprauge had protection, he looked all-MAC. Contrast that to App State where the running game wasn't working, and he didn't have enough protection.

The only other position that concerns me is CB. I had expected the starters to be Brunson and Provitt, but with Brunson apparently leaving, there may be an opportunity for one of the new players (one of the Motley brothers or the JUCO) to step right in and play.

I'm less concerned about that position that the offensive line, though. Give me the offensive line I want, and Ohio is going to be the team I expect.
What you say about Everson in 2006 is true, but let's be honest about two things:

1. He had one of the best, if not the best, RB in school history to hand the ball off to. The 2016 Ohio Bobcats will have nowhere near that caliber of player to hand the ball to, until I've been proven wrong.

2. The 2006 team, and 2006 college football for that matter, is a completely different style of football. The passing game has evolved a lot in the last ten years. Whereas you might see a handful of schools running the spread and throwing 40+ times a game, now more and more teams are heading that way. It's all about putting points on the board, and it's difficult to do that without a legit trigger man under center.
Last Edited: 12/22/2015 7:03:28 AM by GoCats105
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L.C.
12/22/2015 7:32 AM
Everson also had a very good offensive line in front of him, with guys like Coppage, Knabb, and Shelby. The offensive line was always the core of teams under Osborne and Solich, and I expected the same at Ohio. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the offensive lines have always been a weak spot. The line group in 2010-12 was pretty good, with guys like Strum, Lechner, Carlotta, Allen, Herman, Flading, and McGrath, but that was the only time period where it was very good. Not coincidentally, that was also the time period when the offense looked the best.

I think Irons/Brown/OUellette can perform at a McRae level, if they have the right line in front of them. I think the raw material is there, and I think Johnson can build the offensive line juggernaut that Lightner never did build.
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colobobcat66
12/22/2015 9:18 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Yes Allen you are right, Urban Meyer would be the exception. However, I do like the story Lou Holtz tells about how Urban Meyer was about to pull out for applying for the BG job. Coach Holtz said all the talk about Urban Meyer being a top notch assistant was playing with his mind. Coach Meyer told Coach Holtz maybe he should wait for something else. Coach Holtz told him that he wasn't good enough or big enough to wait for something else, nothing wrong with cutting your teeth at Bowling Green.
Gary Pinkel did okay in his time at Missouri. Another MAC retread, Brady Hoke may be more of the crash and burn type.
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giacomo
12/22/2015 10:52 AM
For those of you who have predicted next years outcome, game by game no less, how about throwing in a few stock picks and lotto winners?
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L.C.
12/22/2015 12:32 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
For those of you who have predicted next years outcome, game by game no less, how about throwing in a few stock picks and lotto winners?
You'll want to get that from rsbobcat, who only missed one game this year. I missed three, since I picked a loss to Marshall, a win over Buffalo, and a bowl win.
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Casper71
12/22/2015 1:13 PM
And wasn't Saban a MAC guy...
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cbus cat fan
12/22/2015 7:28 PM
Everyone with regard to the Big Ten, I was thinking more along the lines of Tim Beckman and Darrell Hazell. I am well aware of the success of Brian Kelly, Butch Jones etc. However, they didn't go to the Big Ten. As for Nick Saban, off the top of my head, didn't he go to the Browns in a coordinator role and then head back into the college ranks via Michigan State, LSU (back to the NFL and then finally to the Crimson Tide? I could be wrong on that order, but I think you get what I am saying. If I were an up and coming MAC coach (PJ Fleck,) I would rather not head to Purdue or Rutgers only to find myself in a coaching no man's land.
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allen
12/22/2015 8:43 PM
Randy Etsal
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