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Topic: Why Vick Didn't Play
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OhioCatFan
12/23/2015 2:22 PM
His near 4.0 average certainly helped our APR. He a good kid, and it is sad his last game ended with this controversy. I hope Frank can talk to him and smooth things over. I'd hate for him to leave the program feeling unappreciated and alienated. I for one appreciated his fine contributions to the program.
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allen
12/23/2015 2:24 PM
Sprague's arm is even worst.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
12/24/2015 12:43 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
Sprague's arm is even worst.
I'm not sure why you keep harping on this. Whatever you think his issues might be, arm strength is not one of them.
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allen
12/24/2015 10:38 AM
Look at the tape of the App St game. 37:55, 1:52, 1:57 and 2:12. I looked at other passes, he may not be stepping into his throws, but his throws hang in the air. Vick has a better arm than Sprague. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8_FE-4gEVA
Last Edited: 12/24/2015 11:35:09 AM by allen
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Deciduous Forest Cat
12/26/2015 2:00 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Look at the tape of the App St game. 37:55, 1:52, 1:57 and 2:12. I looked at other passes, he may not be stepping into his throws, but his throws hang in the air. Vick has a better arm than Sprague. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8_FE-4gEVA
He may well be inconsistent, or underthrow occasionally(which is a matter of calculation) but he can toss it when he needs to. Look at the first long pass he completed against ball state, an absolute rocket. Being a good qb involves a lot of particular skills, mental and physical. Very few receivers were open during this game and he had less margin for error certainly.
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Monroe Slavin
12/26/2015 2:03 PM
Arm strength is not the issue. At least not in our offense, which doesn't often ask the qb to throw long.

Well, arm strength could be better, but is adequate.

It's the game control and decision making and reading of receivers, etc. You know, stuff which our offensive coaching has shown little ability to develop/promote recently.
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OhioCatFan
12/26/2015 6:02 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Arm strength is not the issue. At least not in our offense, which doesn't often ask the qb to throw long.

Well, arm strength could be better, but is adequate.

It's the game control and decision making and reading of receivers, etc. You know, stuff which our offensive coaching has shown little ability to develop/promote recently.
Yes, Monroe, our coaches are horrible. They all should have been fired after the three blowout losses. There is no hope for our program next year without a coaching change. We know your point off view. Repetition is not a good substitute for knowledge.
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71 BOBCAT
12/27/2015 10:44 AM
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?






GO BOBCATS
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colobobcat66
12/27/2015 11:16 AM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?






GO BOBCATS
Same with our starting running back, right?
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mid70sbobcat
12/27/2015 12:03 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Arm strength is not the issue. At least not in our offense, which doesn't often ask the qb to throw long.

Well, arm strength could be better, but is adequate.

It's the game control and decision making and reading of receivers, etc. You know, stuff which our offensive coaching has shown little ability to develop/promote recently.
Yes, Monroe, our coaches are horrible. They all should have been fired after the three blowout losses. There is no hope for our program next year without a coaching change. We know your point off view. Repetition is not a good substitute for knowledge.
Monroe needs to keep those posts up, whether it's recycled from the day/week/month before, so he can stay ahead of you in post count! :)

I've suggested to him in the past that he contact McDavis and self nominate himself as the new head coach. I'd love to go undefeated every year.
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Bcat2
12/27/2015 12:13 PM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS
Well, because walkon to starter in the MAC is not a big step. Period. Next, it would be because he earned it. Period. Earned it over Windham, Duckworth & Krizancic & Maxwell who were as highly touted as QBs I see starting next year on a top team in the MAC. Next season should look like:

Ohio; JD Sprague Yahoo shows an Ohio offer. Greg Windham, **, 5.4, 2 Offers Ohio & Cincinnati. Joey Duckworth, ***, 5.6, 5 offers Akron, BG, Buff, Kent, Ohio. Connor Krizancic, ***, 5.5, 7 offers as a receiver. Quinton Maxwell, **, 5.2, Ohio offer.

Bowling Green, James Knapke, **, 5.2, BG only offer. Same rating/offers as Ohio's Quinton Maxwell.

W. Michigan, Zach Terrell, **, 5.3, offers from Illinois State and Kent. Note Yahoo lists Ohio's Greg Windham, Tampa Fla as a similar QB.

CMU, Cooper Rush **, 5.4, no other offers.

NIU, Drew Hare, **, 5.4, no other offers.

Toledo, Logan Woodside, **,5.4, 3 offers Toledo, E. Kentucky, Ohio. Note, recruited to Toledo by coach Isphording before he returned to Ohio.

"Hard Work + Dedication = Excellence." Often walkons have the biggest upside.
Last Edited: 12/27/2015 12:23:43 PM by Bcat2
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allen
12/27/2015 12:40 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS
Well, because walkon to starter in the MAC is not a big step. Period. Next, it would be because he earned it. Period. Earned it over Windham, Duckworth & Krizancic & Maxwell who were as highly touted as QBs I see starting next year on a top team in the MAC. Next season should look like:

Ohio; JD Sprague Yahoo shows an Ohio offer. Greg Windham, **, 5.4, 2 Offers Ohio & Cincinnati. Joey Duckworth, ***, 5.6, 5 offers Akron, BG, Buff, Kent, Ohio. Connor Krizancic, ***, 5.5, 7 offers as a receiver. Quinton Maxwell, **, 5.2, Ohio offer.

Bowling Green, James Knapke, **, 5.2, BG only offer. Same rating/offers as Ohio's Quinton Maxwell.

W. Michigan, Zach Terrell, **, 5.3, offers from Illinois State and Kent. Note Yahoo lists Ohio's Greg Windham, Tampa Fla as a similar QB.

CMU, Cooper Rush **, 5.4, no other offers.

NIU, Drew Hare, **, 5.4, no other offers.

Toledo, Logan Woodside, **,5.4, 3 offers Toledo, E. Kentucky, Ohio. Note, recruited to Toledo by coach Isphording before he returned to Ohio.

"Hard Work + Dedication = Excellence." Often walkons have the biggest upside.

Sprague had no offers, the difference is our qb's are bottom half of the MAC when it comes to performance and have obvious weaknesses.
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Mark Lembright '85
12/27/2015 12:58 PM
I think DV's biggest issue was that over the last 2 years he couldn't stay consistently healthy. Over his career has he ever played 3 entire games in a row? He always seemed to be dinged to some extent or another. Had he been able to stay healthy for an entire year, I bet we'd feel differently about him.

Regardless, he always represented Ohio well, seems to be a great person and I hope he finds great success after graduation.
Last Edited: 12/27/2015 12:58:51 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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C Money
12/27/2015 1:55 PM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?






GO BOBCATS

Eh, Baker Mayfield started his career as a walk-on and was 4th in the Heisman voting this year.

I think Sprague has a skill set that could be valuable to the team, but not as an every down QB. Bring him in as a change of pace/wildcat guy, like we used Tettleton his freshman year.

Start Maxwell. It's time to see if Isphording has earned his paycheck.
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Bcat2
12/27/2015 2:09 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS
Well, because walkon to starter in the MAC is not a big step. Period. Next, it would be because he earned it. Period. Earned it over Windham, Duckworth & Krizancic & Maxwell who were as highly touted as QBs I see starting next year on a top team in the MAC. Next season should look like:

Ohio; JD Sprague Yahoo shows an Ohio offer. Greg Windham, **, 5.4, 2 Offers Ohio & Cincinnati. Joey Duckworth, ***, 5.6, 5 offers Akron, BG, Buff, Kent, Ohio. Connor Krizancic, ***, 5.5, 7 offers as a receiver. Quinton Maxwell, **, 5.2, Ohio offer.

Bowling Green, James Knapke, **, 5.2, BG only offer. Same rating/offers as Ohio's Quinton Maxwell.

W. Michigan, Zach Terrell, **, 5.3, offers from Illinois State and Kent. Note Yahoo lists Ohio's Greg Windham, Tampa Fla as a similar QB.

CMU, Cooper Rush **, 5.4, no other offers.

NIU, Drew Hare, **, 5.4, no other offers.

Toledo, Logan Woodside, **,5.4, 3 offers Toledo, E. Kentucky, Ohio. Note, recruited to Toledo by coach Isphording before he returned to Ohio.

"Hard Work + Dedication = Excellence." Often walkons have the biggest upside.

Sprague had no offers, the difference is our qb's are bottom half of the MAC when it comes to performance and have obvious weaknesses.
Well, Spragues' 2015 season will make the record book #6 all time season QB Efficiency behind TT 2011, 12, & 13, Bob Babitt 1962, And Boo Jackson 2008. Mr. Vick will finish as the 3rd all time QB in career Passing Efficiency behind TT and Boo Jackson.
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Bcat2
12/27/2015 2:12 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS

Eh, Baker Mayfield started his career as a walk-on and was 4th in the Heisman voting this year.

I think Sprague has a skill set that could be valuable to the team, but not as an every down QB. Bring him in as a change of pace/wildcat guy, like we used Tettleton his freshman year.

Start Maxwell. It's time to see if Isphording has earned his paycheck.
Good info about Baker Mayfield. What are the Oklahoma coaches thinking giving him the ball, a walkon, horrors? If and when Maxwell is ready, he won't need a change of pace guy.
Last Edited: 12/27/2015 2:22:58 PM by Bcat2
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The Situation
12/28/2015 7:04 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS

Eh, Baker Mayfield started his career as a walk-on and was 4th in the Heisman voting this year.

I think Sprague has a skill set that could be valuable to the team, but not as an every down QB. Bring him in as a change of pace/wildcat guy, like we used Tettleton his freshman year.

Start Maxwell. It's time to see if Isphording has earned his paycheck.
Good info about Baker Mayfield. What are the Oklahoma coaches thinking giving him the ball, a walkon, horrors? If and when Maxwell is ready, he won't need a change of pace guy.
Baker Mayfield IS NOT a comparable walk on to JD Sprague. Mayfield graduated from high school in 2013. He had offers from Washington State, FAU, and Rice, but chose to walk on at Texas Tech instead. He was on the team for a semester then transferred to Oklahoma. He would be a redshirt sophomore this season under typical circumstances, instead of the "freshman of the year" or "first walk on true freshman QB to start a BCS team season opener".

In my opinion JD Sprague does not belong on the field at QB in an FBS game. There's room for a "change of pace" guy on the practice squad. If there's no one else on the roster then I'd roll the dice on a JC transfer over Sprague 10/10 times.

I'll go to the Tennessee game next season for the novelty of it. But if Sprague is the QB I have 0% interest in attending any other games.
Last Edited: 12/28/2015 7:08:14 AM by The Situation
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Bcat2
12/28/2015 8:49 AM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS

Eh, Baker Mayfield started his career as a walk-on and was 4th in the Heisman voting this year.

I think Sprague has a skill set that could be valuable to the team, but not as an every down QB. Bring him in as a change of pace/wildcat guy, like we used Tettleton his freshman year.

Start Maxwell. It's time to see if Isphording has earned his paycheck.
Good info about Baker Mayfield. What are the Oklahoma coaches thinking giving him the ball, a walkon, horrors? If and when Maxwell is ready, he won't need a change of pace guy.
Baker Mayfield IS NOT a comparable walk on to JD Sprague. Mayfield graduated from high school in 2013. He had offers from Washington State, FAU, and Rice, but chose to walk on at Texas Tech instead. He was on the team for a semester then transferred to Oklahoma. He would be a redshirt sophomore this season under typical circumstances, instead of the "freshman of the year" or "first walk on true freshman QB to start a BCS team season opener".

In my opinion JD Sprague does not belong on the field at QB in an FBS game. There's room for a "change of pace" guy on the practice squad. If there's no one else on the roster then I'd roll the dice on a JC transfer over Sprague 10/10 times.

I'll go to the Tennessee game next season for the novelty of it. But if Sprague is the QB I have 0% interest in attending any other games.
]

Absolutely, "Mayfield IS NOT a comparable walk on to JD Sprague." No argument there. What pulled me in to this discussion was the idea that a walk on after four or five years might not have the leadership and be the smartest, fastest, most savvy, most efficient QB on a team. It could happen.
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OhioBobcat
12/28/2015 9:04 AM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
I think DV's biggest issue was that over the last 2 years he couldn't stay consistently healthy. Over his career has he ever played 3 entire games in a row? He always seemed to be dinged to some extent or another. Had he been able to stay healthy for an entire year, I bet we'd feel differently about him..
That is one of the consequences you face when you run your quarterbacks as much as Ohio does. I don't understand how this is so overlooked by a lot of people. Our quarterbacks are taking way more hits because they are ball carriers on design runs where a lot of other QBs do not run with the ball as part of their offense (I'm talking about designed run plays, not when they're being flushed out of the pocket). This is exactly why Vick and Sprague are always banged up, they took a ton of hits on all those option runs. They are essentially RB's half the game and QB's the other half. Expecting one guy to last an entire season in that kind of an offense of system is unrealistic.
Last Edited: 12/28/2015 9:06:48 AM by OhioBobcat
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OhioCatFan
12/28/2015 9:50 AM
How often did Kareem Wilson miss games because of injuries?
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Bobcatbob
12/28/2015 10:12 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
How often did Kareem Wilson miss games because of injuries?
(insert knowing smile emoji- as my favorite Bobcat QB is recognized)
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fansince49
12/28/2015 11:30 AM
Rarely if ever did Kareem Wilson miss a game because of injuries.
However, I believe that there are @ least two significant reasons why.
1 - I do not have his playing height and weight handy. He was, however,
relatively small, and of a "compact", hard, chunky build. This was in
distinct contrast to the "slender" builds especially of Vick, and to some
extent, of JD Sprague. Thus, Kareem was less vulnerable to sustaining injuries
from defensive hits.
2 - Kareem was a true "option QB". Therefore, if and when he kept the ball and ran, it was usually in close quarters, up the gut, and not running in the open
field as DV and JDS, thus making them vulnerable to hard, open field tackles.
The game which I believe validates my comments/reasons was the wonderful game @ U of Maryland which I was fortunate to attend, where Kareem played (virtually?) the entire game, repeatedly carrying the ball against a large UM defensive unit, and throwing only one or two passes in the entire game, which we won.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
12/28/2015 11:42 AM
The Situation wrote:expand_more
Let's not forget JD was a walk on. Period. That should be enough to tell everyone what his talent level was coming out of High School. Why trust a walk on to handle the most important position in football?

GO BOBCATS

Eh, Baker Mayfield started his career as a walk-on and was 4th in the Heisman voting this year.

I think Sprague has a skill set that could be valuable to the team, but not as an every down QB. Bring him in as a change of pace/wildcat guy, like we used Tettleton his freshman year.

Start Maxwell. It's time to see if Isphording has earned his paycheck.
Good info about Baker Mayfield. What are the Oklahoma coaches thinking giving him the ball, a walkon, horrors? If and when Maxwell is ready, he won't need a change of pace guy.

I'll go to the Tennessee game next season for the novelty of it. But if Sprague is the QB I have 0% interest in attending any other games.
Then that's your problem.
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L.C.
12/28/2015 11:47 AM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
I think DV's biggest issue was that over the last 2 years he couldn't stay consistently healthy. Over his career has he ever played 3 entire games in a row? He always seemed to be dinged to some extent or another. Had he been able to stay healthy for an entire year, I bet we'd feel differently about him..
That is one of the consequences you face when you run your quarterbacks as much as Ohio does. I don't understand how this is so overlooked by a lot of people. Our quarterbacks are taking way more hits because they are ball carriers on design runs where a lot of other QBs do not run with the ball as part of their offense (I'm talking about designed run plays, not when they're being flushed out of the pocket). This is exactly why Vick and Sprague are always banged up, they took a ton of hits on all those option runs. They are essentially RB's half the game and QB's the other half. Expecting one guy to last an entire season in that kind of an offense of system is unrealistic.

...and yet, most of the injuries to Ohio's QBs have come when attempting to pass. Vick's knee, for example, was hurt on a late hit after passing. His wrist was hurt when he went after a fumble on a pass play. T3's collarbone was broken on a late hit while passing. Now, TT's upper body injury did come while running, and Spragues injury this year was on a late hit out of bounds, but I think it was at the end of a run. I don't recall how Vick hurt his ankle. though.
Last Edited: 12/28/2015 11:49:10 AM by L.C.
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GoCats105
12/28/2015 11:52 AM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
I think DV's biggest issue was that over the last 2 years he couldn't stay consistently healthy. Over his career has he ever played 3 entire games in a row? He always seemed to be dinged to some extent or another. Had he been able to stay healthy for an entire year, I bet we'd feel differently about him..
That is one of the consequences you face when you run your quarterbacks as much as Ohio does. I don't understand how this is so overlooked by a lot of people. Our quarterbacks are taking way more hits because they are ball carriers on design runs where a lot of other QBs do not run with the ball as part of their offense (I'm talking about designed run plays, not when they're being flushed out of the pocket). This is exactly why Vick and Sprague are always banged up, they took a ton of hits on all those option runs. They are essentially RB's half the game and QB's the other half. Expecting one guy to last an entire season in that kind of an offense of system is unrealistic.
I'm sorry, but give me a break. There a TON of other college QBs who run way more than Derrius Vick or JD Sprague and this is not a problem. While some injuries can be blamed on the stature of the QB and the style of offense, a lot of them are based on bad luck.

For example:

According to ESPN.com player cards

Derrius Vick: 6'1", 196lbs

Keenan Reynolds: 5'11", 205lbs

You're telling me two inches of height and 9 pounds of weight in a system we run the ball less in than Navy accounts for more injuries to Derrius Vick? Cmon.
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