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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: MAC Championship or Bowl Win?
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allen
12/29/2015 2:50 PM
doubledribble wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
Nobody is saying that is the only goal, that is the gridiron goal. The major goals of any program are to raise great alumni, that serve the community and go on to do great things in the schools name. That is what the study tables, community service and outreach is all about. Heck, I wish schools taught athletes how to manage their finances and the need for social responsibility, but it is only so much coaches can do. We are talking about gridiron goals. I am sure we are all proud of what our Bobcat's do in the community. Don't let your sensitivity cause you to generalize us.
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ytownbobcat
12/29/2015 6:30 PM
doubledribble wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
You say that a MAC Championship is a major goal.
It has been nearly 50 years since we won a MAC Championship.
Excellence in the primary goal of Ohio University in every academic and athletic endeavor.
You can learn "life's lessons" a million ways. Our football programs primary goal is to win games and championships.
Anything else clouds the focus of accountability. Don't lower MY expectations pal.
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ou79
12/29/2015 9:52 PM
No one is saying that we are not proud of OUr players, but this is a D-I/FBS program with 85 fullride scholarships, and I for one expect that at some point we start winning both Conference and Bowl championships. Right now, my patience is running a little thin. At some point in the near future we either start accomplishing these goals or move on to a new staff. We are going into year 12, it is time.
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allen
12/29/2015 10:04 PM
ytownbobcat wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
You say that a MAC Championship is a major goal.
It has been nearly 50 years since we won a MAC Championship.
Excellence in the primary goal of Ohio University in every academic and athletic endeavor.
You can learn "life's lessons" a million ways. Our football programs primary goal is to win games and championships.
Anything else clouds the focus of accountability. Don't lower MY expectations pal.

+1
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allen
12/29/2015 10:05 PM
ou79 wrote:expand_more
No one is saying that we are not proud of OUr players, but this is a D-I/FBS program with 85 fullride scholarships, and I for one expect that at some point we start winning both Conference and Bowl championships. Right now, my patience is running a little thin. At some point in the near future we either start accomplishing these goals or move on to a new staff. We are going into year 12, it is time.

+1
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OhioCatFan
12/29/2015 10:06 PM
doubledribble wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
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Robert Fox
12/30/2015 8:20 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
+1
I don't know who he is either, but I agree with his comment. And for me, this comment addresses other ATHLETIC goals as well as academic and character goals.
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El Gato Roberto
12/30/2015 9:08 AM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
+1
I don't know who he is either, but I agree with his comment. And for me, this comment addresses other ATHLETIC goals as well as academic and character goals.
+1
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Bcat2
12/30/2015 9:39 AM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
+1
I don't know who he is either, but I agree with his comment. And for me, this comment addresses other ATHLETIC goals as well as academic and character goals.
+1
+1
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bshot44
12/30/2015 11:08 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
+1
I don't know who he is either, but I agree with his comment. And for me, this comment addresses other ATHLETIC goals as well as academic and character goals.
+1
+1
OK....just so we're clear.....we are paying FS & Co millions in salary to make sure football players learn "life's lessons" & make sure they graduate.....and winning games/championships/bowls is totally secondary?

Here's an idea that could save the university a ton of $$$$....

Just hire some guidance counselor to coach football.....pay them about $100,000.

Who cares if we win or lose...as long as we produce outstanding alumni that can make the school proud once they graduate.

C'mon folks.....

Frank is being paid very handsomely to win football games. And yes, along with that comes molding these boys into young men that we can all be proud of.

But to belittle winning and bringing home championships because "it's not as important as teaching life's lessons" is ridiculous.

There are a lot of responsibilities for a college football coach.....but high on that list is winning...and winning championships.

Ohio is in a 50-yr drought as someone pointed out earlier.....

That is sad.

We are going into year 12 with Frank and at some point, winning a title has to become an expectation.

But if you guys just want to go to Peden Stadium and cheer on the boys as they try really, really hard and then show up for their graduation and shake their hands for a job well done....i can't stop you.

I guarantee that every single kid that puts on that green-and-white jersey or any coach that puts on that green-and-white shirt.....their goal is plain and simple....win the MAC title.

It's sad that a lot of people on this message board don't share the same belief. And when they fall short, make excuses of how it's not important.

If it's important to the players/coaches....I'd think it should be important to the fans.

That's my opinion...agree or disagree....that's totally your right.

But I'm in the camp that we should be winning championships.....
Last Edited: 12/30/2015 11:09:16 AM by bshot44
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allen
12/30/2015 11:11 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
MAC championship is a major goal of the program, but to believe that this is the only goal of the program shows a complete non-understanding of what college athletics is all about. There is much much more to a successful program than to only focus on 1 primary goal. If you do not understand this, than you do not understand college athletics and have no clue about the much broader picture that our program should paint. It is really getting old to continue to hear from a couple of posters who can see no further than 1 primary goal. Glad you are not in coaching and mentoring my kids as they are experiencing college athletics and all the "life's lessons" that young people must navigate !
+1

Spoken by one who is "in the know" in more ways than one. I won't reveal his identity, but doubledribble knows where of he speaks. The wise will take heed. Monroe will ignore.
+1
I don't know who he is either, but I agree with his comment. And for me, this comment addresses other ATHLETIC goals as well as academic and character goals.
+1
+1
OK....just so we're clear.....we are paying FS & Co millions in salary to make sure football players learn "life's lessons" & make sure they graduate.....and winning games/championships/bowls is totally secondary?

Here's an idea that could save the university a ton of $$$$....

Just hire some guidance counselor to coach football.....pay them about $100,000.

Who cares if we win or lose...as long as we produce outstanding alumni that can make the school proud once they graduate.

C'mon folks.....

Frank is being paid very handsomely to win football games. And yes, along with that comes molding these boys into young men that we can all be proud of.

But to belittle winning and bringing home championships because "it's not as important as teaching life's lessons" is ridiculous.

There are a lot of responsibilities for a college football coach.....but high on that list is winning...and winning championships.

Ohio is in a 50-yr drought as someone pointed out earlier.....

That is sad.

We are going into year 12 with Frank and at some point, winning a title has to become an expectation.

But if you guys just want to go to Peden Stadium and cheer on the boys as they try really, really hard and then show up for their graduation and shake their hands for a job well done....i can't stop you.

I guarantee that every single kid that puts on that green-and-white jersey or any coach that puts on that green-and-white shirt.....their goal is plain and simple....win the MAC title.

It's sad that a lot of people on this message board don't share the same belief. And when they fall short, make excuses of how it's not important.

If it's important to the players/coaches....I'd think it should be important to the fans.

That's my opinion...agree or disagree....that's totally your right.

But I'm in the camp that we should be winning championships.....

True
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Monroe Slavin
12/30/2015 11:47 AM
Alan--Sorry. I may be repetitive. But the other side isn't?

And now we have plenty assert that winning and MACC are not the primary goal?

As 44 explains/asks with indeniable force, that's ridiculous.

I may repeat. But I'm not in denial.


I've asked it before but gotten little answer: How many years of no MACC is okay before it's time to re-evaluate?
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Robert Fox
12/30/2015 12:23 PM
I hate to cut up your post this much, but you seem eager to misrepresent your opposition. One of your fellow, disgruntled colleagues suggested a few days ago that we should at least get our opposition's argument right. I would think the same advice holds true for your side of the debate.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
OK....just so we're clear.....we are paying FS & Co millions in salary to make sure football players learn "life's lessons" & make sure they graduate.....and winning games/championships/bowls is totally secondary?

No one said that. You're arguing against a straw man.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Who cares if we win or lose...as long as we produce outstanding alumni that can make the school proud once they graduate.
No one said this either. You're arguing against a straw man.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
C'mon folks.....

Agree with this.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Frank is being paid very handsomely to win football games. And yes, along with that comes molding these boys into young men that we can all be proud of.

And this.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
But to belittle winning and bringing home championships because "it's not as important as teaching life's lessons" is ridiculous.

No one said that. You're arguing against a straw man.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
There are a lot of responsibilities for a college football coach.....but high on that list is winning...and winning championships.

Agree with this, too. The difference is in our response to a lack of a MACC.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Ohio is in a 50-yr drought as someone pointed out earlier.....

That is sad.

That is true. Not sad. And not all on Frank's shoulders.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
But if you guys just want to go to Peden Stadium and cheer on the boys as they try really, really hard and then show up for their graduation and shake their hands for a job well done....i can't stop you.

No one said that. Ever.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I guarantee that every single kid that puts on that green-and-white jersey or any coach that puts on that green-and-white shirt.....their goal is plain and simple....win the MAC title.

Agree.

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
It's sad that a lot of people on this message board don't share the same belief. And when they fall short, make excuses of how it's not important.

They don't make excuses. They accept realities and then try to understand shortcomings and strengths. They then hope for a better outcome next season.


bshot44 wrote:expand_more
But I'm in the camp that we should be winning championships.....
So are we all. It's how we react when we don't that is in question.
Last Edited: 12/30/2015 12:26:45 PM by Robert Fox
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bshot44
12/30/2015 1:01 PM
Robert -

Thanks for taking the time to break that into line-by-line....

You forgot to analyze this line:

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
That's my opinion...agree or disagree....that's totally your right.
I choose to believe that there are a lot of apologists on this message board that refuse to ever acknowledge any shortcomings of FS & Co or that that our football program isn't "awesome"

I'm not saying we need to go with pitchforks and light Frank's house on fire...

Countless times the obvious has been pointed out....we have gone 11 seasons with ZERO MACC under FS & Co.

And countless times that point has been met with excuses, reasons, etc of why that really isn't that big of a deal.

Again....

Some may not think it's a big deal to be 0-11 in MACC under FS & Co

Some do think that is a big deal.

I, for one, do think that it is a big deal.

I get that from where Ohio was in the 80s, 90s & early 00s that finishing with a winning record and making a bowl game is great!

We've been there...and done that.....7 times now under FS.

Isn't it time to expect more.....when will Ohio make that next step to becoming championship contenders year in and year out?

Will FS & Co ever be able to do that?

Why is it that NIU has been able to compete for titles every year the last 6 years (with three different head coaches)....and won 10 MAC West crowns in the last 15 years with 4 different head coaches???

Why should we not have the same expectations???

We have a better campus...better facilities....a coaching staff that has been together for 10+ years! Why should we have lower expectations and be okay with mediocrity?

Because that's what this program is about right now. Mediocre football. A good win here and there....no championships.....and there are a lot of folks on this board okay with it.

And when others voice their frustration and desire for more...they are met with resistance from folks who are totally fine with the status quo.

You're always going to have people on each side of the fence.....I get that.

But I think each side is entitled their opinion without the other one telling them they're wrong for thinking such.

Again...it's an opinion. Agree or disagree....but everyone is entitled to have one.
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Bcat2
12/30/2015 1:38 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Alan--Sorry. I may be repetitive. But the other side isn't?

And now we have plenty assert that winning and MACC are not the primary goal?
If I may. I have just noticed something. Monroe's goals are presented numerically. Number 1. being the MACC. After that I believe 2. & 3. would be MACC & MACC. Something like the three most important things in real estate are location, location and location. As Monroe presents his goals in this fashion he can come back over and over and over and over again about this number 1. goal not being achieved. Above, doubledribble presented the MACC as "a major" goal of the program. This leads me to believe that there are other "major" goals held at the same level as a MACC. This seems to me to be an important distinction. Perhaps we could convince Monroe their are major goals not just this one primary goal.
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Robert Fox
12/30/2015 1:51 PM
Bshot,
I don't dispute your right to your opinion. I haven't wasted one character of space trying to convince you to change your opinion.

My beef is with your misrepresentation of my opinion and a few others. Again, I'm not OK with not achieving a MACC. You seem to take the attitude that if someone dares to suggest that "there's more to life than a MACC," then that somehow translates to "we don't care about a MACC. Doggone it, we just hope our boys don't get hurt." That's ridiculous.

Allen seems to suggest that if we don't demand a MACC, then we're all a bunch of P#$&Y's . Equally ridiculous.

Here we are. The season is over. We didn't win the MACC (again). So how do we react? Do we get dismal, woe is me, and demand (without actually demanding) that the coaching staff be unceremoniously fired? Or, do we acknowledge this coaching staff is historically very solid, has plenty of upside, has a lot of returning talent for next season, and has as much or more collective experience as anyone else in the MAC? Do we acknowledge other measurables as well, or only a lack of MACC? Once the MACC is lost, you have to take stock of the team's overall achievements.

Is this coaching staff perfect? Hell no. But again, no one ever said that.
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colobobcat66
12/30/2015 2:14 PM
My position is that to complain on a message board about whatever you want to complain about gets nothing really accomplished. If you oppose the current status of things, write the AD, board of Trustees and OU President and complain, stating that you are withholding all contributions to the Athletic department and or university until your demands on changes are met. No sports tickets of any kind as well. A few billboards or banners behind a plane may also be in order. Bitching on a message board accomplishes nothing but make you feel good and wastes a lot of time.
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allen
12/30/2015 2:36 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
My position is that to complain on a message board about whatever you want to complain about gets nothing really accomplished. If you oppose the current status of things, write the AD, board of Trustees and OU President and complain, stating that you are withholding all contributions to the Athletic department and or university until your demands on changes are met. No sports tickets of any kind as well. A few billboards or banners behind a plane may also be in order. Bitching on a message board accomplishes nothing but make you feel good and wastes a lot of time.

This is your opinion. Message boards allow fans to express themselves and if they feel some type of way, so be it. Just because they don't agree with you or the status quo does not make them inferior, it actually makes you inferior when you start trying to tell people what they can or can't say.
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allen
12/30/2015 2:40 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Bshot,
I don't dispute your right to your opinion. I haven't wasted one character of space trying to convince you to change your opinion.

My beef is with your misrepresentation of my opinion and a few others. Again, I'm not OK with not achieving a MACC. You seem to take the attitude that if someone dares to suggest that "there's more to life than a MACC," then that somehow translates to "we don't care about a MACC. Doggone it, we just hope our boys don't get hurt." That's ridiculous.

Allen seems to suggest that if we don't demand a MACC, then we're all a bunch of mailto:mailto:P#$@Y's . Equally ridiculous.

Here we are. The season is over. We didn't win the MACC (again). So how do we react? Do we get dismal, woe is me, and demand (without actually demanding) that the coaching staff be unceremoniously fired? Or, do we acknowledge this coaching staff is historically very solid, has plenty of upside, has a lot of returning talent for next season, and has as much or more collective experience as anyone else in the MAC? Do we acknowledge other measurables as well, or only a lack of MACC? Once the MACC is lost, you have to take stock of the team's overall achievements.

Is this coaching staff perfect? Hell no. But again, no one ever said that.

I have stated that we all should believe we can win the MAC, I have not called anyone a Pu$$y. I have challenged people to get out of their mediocre mind state and believe and be relentless in that belief. I along with others have been attacked for our stances and it does not bother me, I wish you all well. You can cry and call me names all you want. I am still going to believe we should be MAC champs.
Last Edited: 12/30/2015 3:04:30 PM by allen
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colobobcat66
12/30/2015 2:48 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
My position is that to complain on a message board about whatever you want to complain about gets nothing really accomplished. If you oppose the current status of things, write the AD, board of Trustees and OU President and complain, stating that you are withholding all contributions to the Athletic department and or university until your demands on changes are met. No sports tickets of any kind as well. A few billboards or banners behind a plane may also be in order. Bitching on a message board accomplishes nothing but make you feel good and wastes a lot of time.

This is your opinion. Message boards allow fans to express themselves and if they feel some type of way, so be it. Just because they don't agree with you or the status quo does not make them inferior, it actually makes you inferior when you start trying to tell people what they can or can't say.
I didn't mean in any way to say that you can't say whatever you want. I'm just saying that it doesn't get anything accomplished as far as change goes. Can you read and comprehend anything?
Last Edited: 12/30/2015 2:50:48 PM by colobobcat66
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allen
12/30/2015 3:03 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
My position is that to complain on a message board about whatever you want to complain about gets nothing really accomplished. If you oppose the current status of things, write the AD, board of Trustees and OU President and complain, stating that you are withholding all contributions to the Athletic department and or university until your demands on changes are met. No sports tickets of any kind as well. A few billboards or banners behind a plane may also be in order. Bitching on a message board accomplishes nothing but make you feel good and wastes a lot of time.

This is your opinion. Message boards allow fans to express themselves and if they feel some type of way, so be it. Just because they don't agree with you or the status quo does not make them inferior, it actually makes you inferior when you start trying to tell people what they can or can't say.
I didn't mean in any way to say that you can't say whatever you want. I'm just saying that it doesn't get anything accomplished as far as change goes. Can you read and comprehend anything?
I can read that you are trying to control the narrative through your baseless post, you are trying to stop people from using their voice to say what they feel. I understand that your emotions have taken over and you are no longer rational.
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colobobcat66
12/30/2015 3:31 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
My position is that to complain on a message board about whatever you want to complain about gets nothing really accomplished. If you oppose the current status of things, write the AD, board of Trustees and OU President and complain, stating that you are withholding all contributions to the Athletic department and or university until your demands on changes are met. No sports tickets of any kind as well. A few billboards or banners behind a plane may also be in order. Bitching on a message board accomplishes nothing but make you feel good and wastes a lot of time.

This is your opinion. Message boards allow fans to express themselves and if they feel some type of way, so be it. Just because they don't agree with you or the status quo does not make them inferior, it actually makes you inferior when you start trying to tell people what they can or can't say.
I didn't mean in any way to say that you can't say whatever you want. I'm just saying that it doesn't get anything accomplished as far as change goes. Can you read and comprehend anything?
I can read that you are trying to control the narrative through your baseless post, you are trying to stop people from using their voice to say what they feel. I understand that your emotions have taken over and you are no longer rational.

Allen. I just ask you a few questions. Do you want to change anything ? If you answered yes, do you think that just complaining on a message board will cause change? I don't think so, so why is that irrational?
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bshot44
12/30/2015 4:15 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Bshot,
I don't dispute your right to your opinion. I haven't wasted one character of space trying to convince you to change your opinion.

My beef is with your misrepresentation of my opinion and a few others. Again, I'm not OK with not achieving a MACC. You seem to take the attitude that if someone dares to suggest that "there's more to life than a MACC," then that somehow translates to "we don't care about a MACC. Doggone it, we just hope our boys don't get hurt." That's ridiculous.

Allen seems to suggest that if we don't demand a MACC, then we're all a bunch of mailto:P#$@Y's . Equally ridiculous.

Here we are. The season is over. We didn't win the MACC (again). So how do we react? Do we get dismal, woe is me, and demand (without actually demanding) that the coaching staff be unceremoniously fired? Or, do we acknowledge this coaching staff is historically very solid, has plenty of upside, has a lot of returning talent for next season, and has as much or more collective experience as anyone else in the MAC? Do we acknowledge other measurables as well, or only a lack of MACC? Once the MACC is lost, you have to take stock of the team's overall achievements.

Is this coaching staff perfect? Hell no. But again, no one ever said that.
The collective experience of the staff isn't really translating to championships or even competing for them regularly. That's troubling. You would think the two would go hand in hand.

Considering we've seen Turner Gill, Dino Babers, Jerry Kill, Dave Doeren, Dave Clawson, Butch Jones, Brian Kelly, JD Brookhart, Michael Haywood & Rod Carey all win at least one MACC since FS & Co took over.

Why can Ohio not get over the hump with the "historically solid" coaching staff in 11 years?

I don't know either, but at some point...as a program, they have to decide is finishing in middle of the MAC consistently acceptable or do they strive to compete for titles?

How many years of mediocrity are we willing to shrug off while we see others succeed at high levels?

I'm not calling for Frank's job...but it's disheartening to see us continually fall short while others continue to rise.

At some point that has to come back to the coaching staff.

10 different coaches in 15 years....and none named Frank Solich.

I guess some people are just "everything is awesome all the time" and some are "the sky is falling". I like to think I fall in the middle. I celebrate the good times...but I also acknowledge the bad times without sugar coating them.

I guess I just hold this program to a higher standard than some. So my #1 goal is winning a MACC. Why play sports if you don't want to win championships? I'm guessing the coaches and players feel the same.

But there are some on here that say there are goals that prioritize just as high as a MACC. What are those?

And don't say building character and graduating players, blah, blah, blah.

That's an implied goal of all college sports teams.

On the field, what could be a bigger goal than winning a championship?
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allen
12/30/2015 4:46 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Bshot,
I don't dispute your right to your opinion. I haven't wasted one character of space trying to convince you to change your opinion.

My beef is with your misrepresentation of my opinion and a few others. Again, I'm not OK with not achieving a MACC. You seem to take the attitude that if someone dares to suggest that "there's more to life than a MACC," then that somehow translates to "we don't care about a MACC. Doggone it, we just hope our boys don't get hurt." That's ridiculous.

Allen seems to suggest that if we don't demand a MACC, then we're all a bunch of mailto:mailto:P#$@Y's . Equally ridiculous.

Here we are. The season is over. We didn't win the MACC (again). So how do we react? Do we get dismal, woe is me, and demand (without actually demanding) that the coaching staff be unceremoniously fired? Or, do we acknowledge this coaching staff is historically very solid, has plenty of upside, has a lot of returning talent for next season, and has as much or more collective experience as anyone else in the MAC? Do we acknowledge other measurables as well, or only a lack of MACC? Once the MACC is lost, you have to take stock of the team's overall achievements.

Is this coaching staff perfect? Hell no. But again, no one ever said that.
The collective experience of the staff isn't really translating to championships or even competing for them regularly. That's troubling. You would think the two would go hand in hand.

Considering we've seen Turner Gill, Dino Babers, Jerry Kill, Dave Doeren, Dave Clawson, Butch Jones, Brian Kelly, JD Brookhart, Michael Haywood & Rod Carey all win at least one MACC since FS & Co took over.

Why can Ohio not get over the hump with the "historically solid" coaching staff in 11 years?

I don't know either, but at some point...as a program, they have to decide is finishing in middle of the MAC consistently acceptable or do they strive to compete for titles?

How many years of mediocrity are we willing to shrug off while we see others succeed at high levels?

I'm not calling for Frank's job...but it's disheartening to see us continually fall short while others continue to rise.

At some point that has to come back to the coaching staff.

10 different coaches in 15 years....and none named Frank Solich.

I guess some people are just "everything is awesome all the time" and some are "the sky is falling". I like to think I fall in the middle. I celebrate the good times...but I also acknowledge the bad times without sugar coating them.

I guess I just hold this program to a higher standard than some. So my #1 goal is winning a MACC. Why play sports if you don't want to win championships? I'm guessing the coaches and players feel the same.

But there are some on here that say there are goals that prioritize just as high as a MACC. What are those?

And don't say building character and graduating players, blah, blah, blah.

That's an implied goal of all college sports teams.

On the field, what could be a bigger goal than winning a championship?
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Robert Fox
12/30/2015 6:30 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
How many years of mediocrity are we willing to shrug off while we see others succeed at high levels?

Is this a rhetorical question? If not, what are you proposing be done? This doesn't seem to square with your next line:

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm not calling for Frank's job...but it's disheartening to see us continually fall short while others continue to rise.


So mediocrity should not be tolerated, but you're not calling for Frank's job. This is a bit confusing. What, exactly, are you calling for?

bshot44 wrote:expand_more
On the field, what could be a bigger goal than winning a championship?
As I stated, there isn't a "bigger" goal. However, there are other goals that are important, beyond character building and all that jazz, such as:
Overall W/L record
MACC eligibility
Bowl eligibility
Bowl success
MAC W/L record
Record against Miami
Record against BG
Record against Akron
Record against Kent
Record against MAC East
Record against MAC West
Out of conference record
Sagarin rating
Statistical categories:
Offensive yards
Defensive yards allowed
Rushing yards
Passing yards
Team GPA

You keep reminding me that you should be allowed to have your opinion. Have it. I'm not stopping you. However, if you're serious that Frank should not be removed, then you and I may not be all that far apart in opinion. But I wonder why you keep posting these comments about our failures and let-downs. What value is there in re-hashing it? What do you hope to accomplish? Are you trying to create a ground-swell of discontent on BA.com?
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