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Topic: Maleek Irons Transfer Watch
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OhioStunter
12/21/2015 7:58 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
. . . And, if next year Irons should break out, clearly the talent was not there or ready now..clearly holding him off the field will have been what developed that talent.
Actually, it'll mean that Frank finally listened to you, Monroe, and we'll all give you credit for being a prophet whose football brilliance is finally getting the recognition that it deserves. In fact, Frank will probably name you Honorary Assistant Coach for Running Back and Trick Play Development.
I have to say that this is one of the most absurd discussions I have ever seen. If there is one thing that Solich knows, it is running backs. He has recruited and coached up many of them, including a Heisman Trophy winner (Rozier), and countless running backs including among others, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, Derick Brown, Mark Schellen, Calvin Jones, Keith Jones, Jeff Smith, Jeff Makovicka, Joel Makovicka, Corey Schlesinger, Damon Benning, Correll Buckhalter, and Dahrran Diedrick. He was so highly regarded as a running backs coach that he even had videos out back in the day teaching others how to coach running backs, and the videos are still sold today:
https://www.overdrive.com/media/1574843/frank-solich-runn...
http://www.hamiltonbook.com/Sports/frank-solich-running-b...

Does anyone honestly believe that if Ohio wasn't playing the best running back he wouldn't know? Bug, some message board posters, who most likely have never even played the game, know more about running backs than Solich, and they know it never even having seen a practice. Will wonders never cease?
This is really a fantastic list of RBs, thank you for pulling it together. Based on his RB knowledge and his history, I'm surprised that Ohio has not had any first-team all-MAC RBs since Kalvin McRae (who was not recruited by Solich). Wouldn't you think that at least one of the RBs he's recruited in the past 11 years would've become a first-team all-MAC selection? How did Beau not get that recognition in 2012?
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OhioCatFan
12/21/2015 10:41 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
He can't be high on his potential if he is getting splinters. [/QUOTE] Yes he can. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

I respect your comments, but they are biased. You would start AJ over Franco Harris if Frank Solich said so.
I might, but Frank wouldn't, and he wouldn't say so.

I would agree that AJ is in the discussion with Irons, but Daz no, I don't care about garbage time.
One pundit on this board, whose opinion I respect a good deal, says that Daz may have NFL potential. No telling how he'd do with a pro-level offensive line in front of him. I guess time will tell on that one. I thought you thought garbage time stats were as meaningful as any other stats.


There was a staff member that said they could not believe Irons was not starting and he was like Derrick Henry, I believe him over you.
Who is this staff person? A GA assistant to an assistant coach?

I have seen Solich start Tettleton, while he had it on cruise control for two years. I have a master's in management. This tells me that the coaches don't know how to make changes when appropriate. They are too loyal.


Who should Frank have started instead of TT during his decline? Have you evaluated all of the other QBs available at that time in terms of all the specific requirements of a good QB in the OHIO system?

[QUOTE=allen]Sprague will start next year because we owe him. Frank Solich is a good coach and has been good for Ohio, but he is not perfect. Only Jesus is perfect so stop praising Solich.


OK, now you have the insight into the future of Jesus. I trust Him more than you. Yes, He was perfect, but neither you nor I are.
Last Edited: 12/21/2015 10:42:52 PM by OhioCatFan
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Monroe Slavin
12/21/2015 10:42 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
A fan with eyes, not a ball handler like you. I see the games just like everyone else. You forgot one thing as well, stats don't lie or cling like groupies and the stats say Brown and Irons are better.
You're right. Stats don't lie. You just choose to ignore them. There has not been anywhere near enough data on Irons to make a call on his ability, unless you've seen him in practice. And since you're not affiliated with the team (I guess), then you don't have that info. Seeing a few carries in mostly mop-up duty is not an evaluation. It's a sideshow.

And to your accusation, get a clue. I don't have a dog in the fight. Don't give a #$%! who carries the ball. But I'm also not an Irons cheerleader. You want to meet a cheerleader? Look in the mirror. Sheesh.
First, this idea of 'not enough data' in light of Iron's rumored/hoped-for ability is why many of wanted Irons in there--to see if he could do it. But Solich showed the great wisdom of not using him more.

Then, it's a small but somewhat valid sample: in the small opportunity of 33 carries for the year all that he did was to lead the team in the prime running back stat--YPC.

OCF--Sorry. But if he shines next year after leading in YPC this year, it's wiser to use such as an argument that he should have been used more this year than that it proves Solich brought him along appropriately.

Can you do a poll somewhere among reasonably objective folks (not those on this thread, including me). Use the fact pattern--led team in YPC one year with only a couple of game's worth (33 is about 2 games) and followed by being best running back on team next year. Don't describe the running back any further. As people if they think the guy should have gotten more carries in the first year.
Last Edited: 12/21/2015 10:47:57 PM by Monroe Slavin
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allen
12/21/2015 10:59 PM
Daz may have NFL talent as a return man, as a running back, heck no. You might need to question your pundit. Ohiocat I am speechless that you would not question Solich starting AJ over Franco Harris. You are a true follower and nobody can take you away from FS.
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L.C.
12/21/2015 11:17 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
This is really a fantastic list of RBs, thank you for pulling it together. Based on his RB knowledge and his history, I'm surprised that Ohio has not had any first-team all-MAC RBs since Kalvin McRae (who was not recruited by Solich). Wouldn't you think that at least one of the RBs he's recruited in the past 11 years would've become a first-team all-MAC selection? How did Beau not get that recognition in 2012?

This has been a great mystery to me since 2005. I expected that at least a few very good running backs would have wanted to play for Solich, but until recently it never happened. The result was that Solich had to rely on smaller players more suitable for an "all position Back" role than a running back. Examples of those were Garrett, Harden, Davidson, etc. The only really top recruit he had at running back was a guy named Robert Hightower, who was in the 2006 recruiting class, and then again in 2007. I was very impressed with him, but he never qualified.

Finally Ohio has two that I would consider top running back recruits, Dorian Brown and Maleek Irons, and now we just have to watch them progress. Both have tremendous potential, but both have things to work on as well.
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CovingtonBuccs
12/21/2015 11:21 PM
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.
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allen
12/21/2015 11:31 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
This is really a fantastic list of RBs, thank you for pulling it together. Based on his RB knowledge and his history, I'm surprised that Ohio has not had any first-team all-MAC RBs since Kalvin McRae (who was not recruited by Solich). Wouldn't you think that at least one of the RBs he's recruited in the past 11 years would've become a first-team all-MAC selection? How did Beau not get that recognition in 2012?

This has been a great mystery to me since 2005. I expected that at least a few very good running backs would have wanted to play for Solich, but until recently it never happened. The result was that Solich had to rely on smaller players more suitable for an "all position Back" role than a running back. Examples of those were Garrett, Harden, Davidson, etc. The only really top recruit he had at running back was a guy named Robert Hightower, who was in the 2006 recruiting class, and then again in 2007. I was very impressed with him, but he never qualified.

Finally Ohio has two that I would consider top running back recruits, Dorian Brown and Maleek Irons, and now we just have to watch them progress. Both have tremendous potential, but both have things to work on as well.

I finally agree with you, even when we disagree I respect you.
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allen
12/21/2015 11:34 PM
CovingtonBuccs wrote:expand_more
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.

I don't believe anyone here is saying AJ has not proved himself, he is a heck of a back, unfortunately for him there may be better backs on the roster.
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CovingtonBuccs
12/21/2015 11:42 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.

I don't believe anyone here is saying AJ has not proved himself, he is a heck of a back, unfortunately for him there may be better backs on the roster.
Fortunately for AJ and the other backs on the roster, the coaches see their value is to the team and that's all that matters.
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Moving the chains
12/21/2015 11:55 PM
I assume Irons Attended the University of Ohio because of Frank's past and his ability to coach RB,s. If you do some on line research the kid had options yet chose Ohio. Why? IF Irons was given the same number of carries as some of the other backs the argument for carries / production / ability would resolve itself. The cream rises to the top. Give the kid a chance.
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allen
12/22/2015 12:11 AM
Moving the chains wrote:expand_more
I assume Irons Attended the University of Ohio because of Frank's past and his ability to coach RB,s. If you do some on line research the kid had options yet chose Ohio. Why? IF Irons was given the same number of carries as some of the other backs the argument for carries / production / ability would resolve itself. The cream rises to the top. Give the kid a chance.
+1
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L.C.
12/22/2015 6:14 AM
CovingtonBuccs wrote:expand_more
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.

Covington, I agree with you. For you, here's an article I found about two players that remind me of AJ in more ways than one:
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=204769969

These were two players with a similar running style to AJ that came from a very small town, and who walked on, but earned scholarships under Solich. Joel went on to be a fourth round draft choice, and started 10 games in the NFL as a rookie. Another with a similar style, who I should have had on my list above was Cory Schlesinger.
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Bcat2
12/22/2015 7:33 AM
CovingtonBuccs wrote:expand_more
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.

I don't believe anyone here is saying AJ has not proved himself, he is a heck of a back, unfortunately for him there may be better backs on the roster.
Fortunately for AJ and the other backs on the roster, the coaches see their value is to the team and that's all that matters.
Brief, brilliant & gone. You sir, get it.
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allen
12/22/2015 8:42 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
This entire discussion is rather comical. We were laughing about it on our way back home from the bowl game. (10 hours of driving can get rather boring)

The reason it's comical, AJ OUellette has more than proved himself. A walk on, who earned a scholarship very quickly - one who has never put the ball on the ground or rarely has a rush for negative yards - yet, blocks very well and catches the ball well out of the backfield. Plus, (if you are into stats) he has led OU in rushing in his first two seasons as a Bobcat.

Not to mention - he is the first one running out on the field to congratulate a teammate when they make a play - even if it is a player who is also a running back. He's the ultimate team player - willing to play offense, defense, special teams or whatever else is asked of him.

As far as Maleek or any other back on the OU roster, this discussion isn't fair to them either.

Covington, I agree with you. For you, here's an article I found about two players that remind me of AJ in more ways than one:
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=204769969

These were two players with a similar running style to AJ that came from a very small town, and who walked on, but earned scholarships under Solich. Joel went on to be a fourth round draft choice, and started 10 games in the NFL as a rookie. Another with a similar style, who I should have had on my list above was Cory Schlesinger.
Cory Schlessinger was a full back and did not get the bulk of the carries. AJ is faster and a much better runner than Schlesinger. You are only making this comparison because Schlesinger is white. Schlesinger was a great blocker. I think AJ would start on 40-50 D1 teams and could be a All-MAC third team tail back. I believe that Irons is a better runner than AJ. Brown is the most polished runner of the three but AJ and Irons are more powerful. AJ does not have the break away speed that Irons and Brown have. AJ will get to the second level and that is it. LC is right once Irons gets out in space he is the best runner because he is going to run through the db and the help won't get there in time. AJ is better at getting going than Irons. AJ always breaks the first tackle and so does Irons for the most part. Once again, AJ is a heck of a back. He happens to be on a team where there is a better back and the coaches know it, they know AJ deserves to play and tried to move him to ILB, but Poling has returned. During this process, they have shelved Irons and it is not fair to him, give him and AJ the ball, but don't waste this kid. These little schemes like the Vick scheme need to stop. Just because the fans ask you about a player and the player started the year before does not mean they should start for the rest of their career.
Last Edited: 12/22/2015 8:45:22 AM by allen
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Bobcatzblitz
12/22/2015 9:16 AM
Some people in the know have openly wondered why Irons does not get any carries but they have said that AJ is a coaches dream player. Possibly the hardest working guy on the team though not the most talented or gifted. I think this is a good problem to have as Ohio has 4 really good RBs but there is no way App State was supposed to continually hold us to zero and one yard gains on 1st down. I'm just seeing wasted downs it was the same thing with Beau Blankenship at times. Do we not have any other packages? Can we run power maybe a 3 back set with AJ and Maleek put Papi in motion run him across the formation woww. hmm damn I just drew that up in the dirt imagine how many problems that would cause for a defense. Whats up with this RB from Iowa will he all of a sudden be the starter who knows this is Ohio anything could happen it seems.
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C Money
12/22/2015 9:25 AM
Can Irons play corner?

/sarc
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allen
12/22/2015 9:46 AM
C Money wrote:expand_more
Can Irons play corner?

/sarc


lol, way to break the ice.
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allen
12/22/2015 9:48 AM
Bobcatzblitz wrote:expand_more
Some people in the know have openly wondered why Irons does not get any carries but they have said that AJ is a coaches dream player. Possibly the hardest working guy on the team though not the most talented or gifted. I think this is a good problem to have as Ohio has 4 really good RBs but there is no way App State was supposed to continually hold us to zero and one yard gains on 1st down. I'm just seeing wasted downs it was the same thing with Beau Blankenship at times. Do we not have any other packages? Can we run power maybe a 3 back set with AJ and Maleek put Papi in motion run him across the formation woww. hmm damn I just drew that up in the dirt imagine how many problems that would cause for a defense. Whats up with this RB from Iowa will he all of a sudden be the starter who knows this is Ohio anything could happen it seems.
+1
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L.C.
12/22/2015 1:01 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Cory Schlessinger was a full back and did not get the bulk of the carries. AJ is faster and a much better runner than Schlesinger. You are only making this comparison because Schlesinger is white. Schlesinger was a great blocker.
....

You calling me a racist is offensive and uncalled for. Yes Schlesinger was a fullback, as were the Makovica brothers. would you have preferred if I compared him to Bill Olds? Olds was also a fullback, also played in the NFL, but was black. How about Roger Craig, another fullback?

AJ has great speed (he is much faster than you seem to think, probably as fast as Irons), great power, and is a very good blocker, but his strength is not his elusiveness. He is not going to run around someone, he's going to run over them. Those were the traits that all of the above fullbacks had, whether white or black. As a result it is my opinion that if he were playing in the game of twenty years ago he would be a fullback, and he would be a very good one. That opinion, however, has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with running style.

In today's game there is no fullback, so AJ is a running back, and a good one. Most of the fullbacks I mentioned would have made good running backs, too.
Last Edited: 12/22/2015 1:12:47 PM by L.C.
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allen
12/22/2015 1:34 PM
I am not calling you racist, I am saying that is a bad comparison. AJ is a true tailback, not a bruising blocker. AJ is fast just does not have the football speed of Irons. Like I said, AJ is a heck of a back, Irons is a better ball carrier.
Last Edited: 12/22/2015 1:36:49 PM by allen
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Monroe Slavin
12/22/2015 1:51 PM
AJ has great speed. No. He has okay speed. Calling it great is absolutely wrong and shows no powers of observation.

The same lack of observation that leads to conclusion that Irons should not have carried at least 80-100 times this year.

(Vick had 93 carries this year.)


Yes, AJ is a terrific guy to have on the team. I'm very, very happy that Daz, valedictorian in his high school class, is at OHIO.

But once the decision is made that Irons is okay (grades, behavior, etc) to be in uniform, he should play because he's shown that he's our most all-around talented back.

I don't care what the listed weights are. If Irons isn't 15-20 lbs heavier than than any of our other backs, I'd be stunned. Power, power in motion matters.

Once again, we'd bench Jim Brown because, well, you know, the Coach knows running backs.


That 26 yard td run to the right late (against BG?) alone merited more carries. Defensive backs wanted no part of Irons on that run. Most electric bit of work by an OHIO back in years.
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Monroe Slavin
12/22/2015 1:52 PM
Allen--Where you work do give about the least work to the employees who perform the best according to the most important metric?
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allen
12/22/2015 1:53 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
AJ has great speed. No. He has okay speed. Calling it great is absolutely wrong and shows no powers of observation.

The same lack of observation that leads to conclusion that Irons should not have carried at least 80-100 times this year.

(Vick had 93 carries this year.)


Yes, AJ is a terrific guy to have on the team. I'm very, very happy that Daz, valedictorian in his high school class, is at OHIO.

But once the decision is made that Irons is okay (grades, behavior, etc) to be in uniform, he should play because he's shown that he's our most all-around talented back.

I don't care what the listed weights are. If Irons isn't 15-20 lbs heavier than than any of our other backs, I'd be stunned. Power, power in motion matters.

Once again, we'd bench Jim Brown because, well, you know, the Coach knows running backs.


That 26 yard td run to the right late (against BG?) alone merited more carries. Defensive backs wanted no part of Irons on that run. Most electric bit of work by an OHIO back in years.

+1
I think it was 44 yards, that run was ridiculous, Marshawn Lynch like. Here it is, listen to the announcers. http://espn.go.com/college-football/game?gameId=400787344
Last Edited: 12/22/2015 1:59:01 PM by allen
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Monroe Slavin
12/22/2015 2:08 PM
Wanna learn in two plays? Watch the video that comes up on that link at the top of the screen. Watch the first play, BG's kinda middle screen. Then watch our toss to the sideline that gets picked off for a td.

In two plays you can see that BG runs a 2015 offense and we run some bland, predictable, repetitive stuff from the 1980's.

It's awesome that so many here still support the Solich offense...though clearly more are recognizing that the same movie has the same results/ending every time.
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Monroe Slavin
12/22/2015 4:17 PM
Allen--This is confusing to me.

I know that Irons scored on about a 23 yard run late to the left in one of the early games this year.

So, you're saying that these long td jaunts can be diminished because they're against 2nd and 3rd string defenses? But don't these long runs make you want to try Irons against the 1's? Does dismissing ability to perform against 1's because one is ripping perhaps lesser competition make sense? How can you prove up against the 1's, after proving up vs the competition you are allowed to face, if you don't face them?


It's not a perfect metric but one guy scores 4 td's on 33 (12%) carries where as other guys score 0 on 40 (0%) carries or 9 on 106 (8.5%) or 6 on 151 (4%)--who do you want to see more of?

If the metics and opticals keep showing a guy as worthy, why are we not playing him?
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