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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Pat Fitzgerald on Bowls
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BillyTheCat
12/31/2016 3:47 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
No if college football wants to use these players as show puppies, then they need to do more to protect them. They need to create a compensation package for people like Butt who are putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game that get injured and lose millions or respect the players decision to skip the bowl game. Yelling bully from the bully pulpit does nothing.


Sure, and you will compensate every athlete in every sport. College sports does not begin and end with football.
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allen
12/31/2016 4:46 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
No if college football wants to use these players as show puppies, then they need to do more to protect them. They need to create a compensation package for people like Butt who are putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game that get injured and lose millions or respect the players decision to skip the bowl game. Yelling bully from the bully pulpit does nothing.


Sure, and you will compensate every athlete in every sport. College sports does not begin and end with football.
Sure offer insurance for all sports with meaningless after the season games, even the managers, but consider that football is the most physical sport and one of the only sports that has bowl games that don't mean anything but a check for corporations and universities.
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bshot44
1/1/2017 11:52 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
...putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game.
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.

Tell WMU the Cotton Bowl is meaningless.

Bowl games used to be a reward for a good season. I agree there are far too many of them now. But I wouldn't classify them as meaningless.

There's something about getting to play in the Rose, Sugar or Cotton Bowl. To act like it's a game against Florida A&M is silly.

It's a slippery slope to do what McCaffery or Fournette did. Where does it end? HS kids sitting out after verbal commitments if their team isn't in playoffs?

I understand the risk...but it's getting ridiculous. How do you look a teammate in the face that had busted his ass all year with you...and just say, "Nah...I'm good. I quit"

Jabrill Peppers was a joke. Didn't even stand on the sidelines with his teammates in Orange Bowl. Nice. You don't think he could have helped coach or provide advice to his replacement or teammates?

It's totally selfish.
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Bcat2
1/1/2017 12:09 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
...putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game.
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.

Tell WMU the Cotton Bowl is meaningless.

Bowl games used to be a reward for a good season. I agree there are far too many of them now. But I wouldn't classify them as meaningless.

There's something about getting to play in the Rose, Sugar or Cotton Bowl. To act like it's a game against Florida A&M is silly.

It's a slippery slope to do what McCaffery or Fournette did. Where does it end? HS kids sitting out after verbal commitments if their team isn't in playoffs?

I understand the risk...but it's getting ridiculous. How do you look a teammate in the face that had busted his ass all year with you...and just say, "Nah... I'm good. I quit"

Jabrill Peppers was a joke. Didn't even stand on the sidelines with his teammates in Orange Bowl. Nice. You don't think he could have helped coach or provide advice to his replacement or teammates?

It's totally selfish.
" Didn't even stand on the sidelines with his teammates in Orange Bowl." Really? Was it Carrie who missed Ohio vs PSU yet was a presence on the sideline as it seems Ouellette has been this year. Perhaps if he was not really seriously injured the coaches might well have uninvited him from the sideline.
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cc-cat
1/1/2017 1:03 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.
They are certainly not meaningless to these guys - where else would they be able to ear those snazzy green sports jackets.
http://www.goodyearcottonbowl.com/contact-us/att-cotton-b... /

They are certainly not meaningless to big donors per this memo to MSU fans last season - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/m-footbl/a... Note "best" seats are reserved for corporate members of the Cotton Bowl.

They are certainly not meaningless to ESPN - as discussed.

They are certainly not meaningless to coaches, ADs and conference leaders - big bonus money time.

But to an NFL prospect they can become meaningless. Simple risk/reward. Just as today will see limited NFL play from a number of stars.

By the way, to me the Cotton Bowl fell off years ago. Who to say it is in par with the Rose, Orange or Sugar? Oh wait, a bunch of guys in a committee room tells us so.
Last Edited: 1/2/2017 12:04:57 PM by cc-cat
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OhioCatFan
1/1/2017 3:18 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
...putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game.
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.

Tell WMU the Cotton Bowl is meaningless.

Bowl games used to be a reward for a good season. I agree there are far too many of them now. But I wouldn't classify them as meaningless.

There's something about getting to play in the Rose, Sugar or Cotton Bowl. To act like it's a game against Florida A&M is silly.

It's a slippery slope to do what McCaffery or Fournette did. Where does it end? HS kids sitting out after verbal commitments if their team isn't in playoffs?

I understand the risk...but it's getting ridiculous. How do you look a teammate in the face that had busted his ass all year with you...and just say, "Nah...I'm good. I quit"

Jabrill Peppers was a joke. Didn't even stand on the sidelines with his teammates in Orange Bowl. Nice. You don't think he could have helped coach or provide advice to his replacement or teammates?

It's totally selfish.
+1

I agree with all of this, but my son tells me Peppers was in the box with the coaches.
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Bcat2
1/1/2017 5:24 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.
They are certainly not meaningless to these guys - where else would they be able to ear those snazzy green sports jackets.
http://www.goodyearcottonbowl.com/contact-us/att-cotton-b... /

They are certainly not meaningless to big donors per this memo to MSU fans last season - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/m-footbl/a... Note "best" seats are reserved for corporate members of the Cotton Bowl.

They are certainly not meaningless to ESPN - as discussed.

They are certainly not meaningless to coaches, ADs and conference leaders - big bonus money time.

But to an NFL prospect they can become meaningless. Simple risk/reward. Just as today will see limited NFL play from a number of stars.

By the way, to me the Cotton Bowl fell off years ago. Who to say it is in par with the Rose, Orange or Sugar? Oh wait, a bunch of guys in a committee room tells us so.
Edit. The above quote attributed to Bcat2 should correctly be attributed to bshot44.
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allen
1/1/2017 8:23 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
...putting on a show in a meaningless bowl game.
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.

Tell WMU the Cotton Bowl is meaningless.

Bowl games used to be a reward for a good season. I agree there are far too many of them now. But I wouldn't classify them as meaningless.

There's something about getting to play in the Rose, Sugar or Cotton Bowl. To act like it's a game against Florida A&M is silly.

It's a slippery slope to do what McCaffery or Fournette did. Where does it end? HS kids sitting out after verbal commitments if their team isn't in playoffs?

I understand the risk...but it's getting ridiculous. How do you look a teammate in the face that had busted his ass all year with you...and just say, "Nah...I'm good. I quit"

Jabrill Peppers was a joke. Didn't even stand on the sidelines with his teammates in Orange Bowl. Nice. You don't think he could have helped coach or provide advice to his replacement or teammates?

It's totally selfish.

I hear you to some extent, but I am sure Jake Butt's agent or agent to be wishes he would have sat out. He may fall into the third round.
Last Edited: 1/1/2017 8:35:37 PM by allen
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allen
1/1/2017 8:30 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
When did we get to the point that bowl games are meaningless? I get that every game cant be for a title, but I disagree that they're meaningless.
They are certainly not meaningless to these guys - where else would they be able to ear those snazzy green sports jackets.
http://www.goodyearcottonbowl.com/contact-us/att-cotton-b... /

They are certainly not meaningless to big donors per this memo to MSU fans last season - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/m-footbl/a... Note "best" seats are reserved for corporate members of the Cotton Bowl.

They are certainly not meaningless to ESPN - as discussed.

They are certainly not meaningless to coaches, ADs and conference leaders - big bonus money time.

But to an NFL prospect they can become meaningless. Simple risk/reward. Just as today will see limited NFL play from a number of stars.

By the way, to me the Cotton Bowl fell off years ago. Who to say it is in par with the Rose, Orange or Sugar? Oh wait, a bunch of guys in a committee room tells us so.
The bowls switch every year, so the Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, Fiesta, Orange and Sugar bowl's will all eventually host playoff games. Those bowls are on the same level. I know it's hard to believe a MAC team is playing in a bowl of that stature, but WMU did a great job and will be only the second MAC school to participate in a BCS or CFP game.
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 12:13 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
The bowls switch every year, so the Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, Fiesta, Orange and Sugar bowl's will all eventually host playoff games. Those bowls are on the same level.

So the Cotton bowl ponied up enough money (as did the Peach) to get a seat at the biggest table. Every few years. Hence a room full of guys with funny jackets says it is worthy. But this year it has no impact on who wins the national championship.

Let me ask you this. What if we were talking basketball and we have a top 5 pick whose team only makes the NIT and he sits out. Is that horrible? What if, because of injuries they only make the CBI and he declares he is going to sit out. Is he selfish and wrong?
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allen
1/2/2017 12:25 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
The bowls switch every year, so the Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, Fiesta, Orange and Sugar bowl's will all eventually host playoff games. Those bowls are on the same level.

So the Cotton bowl ponied up enough money (as did the Peach) to get a seat at the biggest table. Every few years. Hence a room full of guys with funny jackets says it is worthy. But this year it has no impact on who wins the national championship.

Let me ask you this. What if we were talking basketball and we have a top 5 pick whose team only makes the NIT and he sits out. Is that horrible? What if, because of injuries they only make the CBI and he declares he is going to sit out. Is he selfish and wrong?
I don't think players should sit out bowl games, I understand their dilemma. I think the NCAA should do more to protect the players. As a former soldier, I believe in soldiering up, but I understand Fournette and McCaffrey
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 1:07 PM
And the basketball players?
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allen
1/2/2017 1:49 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
And the basketball players?
The same for basketball, the liability would be much less because basketball is just as physical.
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 2:58 PM
Any lottery pick that plays in the NIT or CBI is a fool. Only folks benefiting are his coach and AD who get some bonus money.
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Mike Johnson
1/2/2017 3:44 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Any lottery pick that plays in the NIT or CBI is a fool. Only folks benefiting are his coach and AD who get some bonus money.
Ahem, his teammates...
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 4:17 PM
Ahem. Fof all, Fournette's and mcCaffery's teammates fully supported their decisions. Second. When we accept an invite to the CBI half the people on this board think we should turn it down. But god forbid the athlete that has the most to lose does so. Finally many folks on this board spent the weeks leading up to the Dollar General Bowl mocking it and voicing displeasure with our being there. But God forbid an athlete with everything to lose and very very very very little to gain decline to play.

If fans are going to treat these bowls with disdain (there are too many, everyone goes, "participation" trophies, etc) and disappointment why should players be so scathed when they decline to play - especially when their teammates support them?

Spare me the hypocrisy and the crap about their scholarship is being paid for and players play and soldiers soldier on. Do you think LSU fans are upset Fournette is leaving because he doesn't have his degree? Were OSU fans devastated Ezekiel Elliot left without his sheepskin or because he wasn't going to carry the pigskin? Fans make it clear most bowls do not matter to them. God forbid athletes realize the same thing.

No one denies college football is a business (as is college basketball). God forbid the workers, the resources involved make a business decision. And God forbid it be in the best interest of the player/worker and not the industry/big corporation.
Last Edited: 1/2/2017 4:24:24 PM by cc-cat
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OhioCatFan
1/2/2017 4:29 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
Any lottery pick that plays in the NIT or CBI is a fool. Only folks benefiting are his coach and AD who get some bonus money.
Ahem, his teammates...
+1


Corey Davis said he came back this year for his teammates, and I suspect that's why he played in the bowl game. He also says that money isn't his first priority. My kind of guy.

http://tinyurl.com/hb79xsv
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Robert Fox
1/2/2017 4:34 PM
It seems the people badmouthing bowls are the same people supporting players' opting out of participating. Two sides of the same coin. A side where a sense of duty, honor, pride, etc are outweighed by a sense of me.

The other side of the coin is not badmouthing bowls. They are expecting players to play, to finish what they started.

The one thing I agree with you on is that money has corrupted the system. No doubt that's true. But you don't respond by selling out basic decency.
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BillyTheCat
1/2/2017 4:42 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
It seems the people badmouthing bowls are the same people supporting players' opting out of participating. Two sides of the same coin. A side where a sense of duty, honor, pride, etc are outweighed by a sense of me.

The other side of the coin is not badmouthing bowls. They are expecting players to play, to finish what they started.

The one thing I agree with you on is that money has corrupted the system. No doubt that's true. But you don't respond by selling out basic decency.

Add to this, many of the same who are bad mouthing Bowl games tout we've been to so many in the past 12 years
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 4:55 PM
Spare me the loyalty and duty speech. Many of theses same teams will just as easily cut a player loose if he doesn't pan out and they want the scholarship for an incoming freshman. Hell there are people on this board calling for that on the basketball side.

So if I'm Fournette I'd tell them "I'll play in your bowl game once you sign this legal document that declared all scholarships are four year scholarships. No more rolling scholarships. No more taking a scholarships away because the player doesn't perform as you expected. You honor that commitment I'll honor the bowl commitment."
Last Edited: 1/2/2017 5:02:53 PM by cc-cat
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Robert Fox
1/2/2017 5:37 PM
As I understand it, that's not their beef. They are not upset about year-to-year scholarships. They're simply protecting their interests--or so they would think. That's a different argument.

I won't spare you the duty argument. Because its valid.
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cc-cat
1/2/2017 5:48 PM
But there is no loyalty on the part of the school towards the player. So everyone yelling loyalty need to look at the schools as well. It is a two way street. Right now it is only one way. Totally agree it is not the argument being presented by the players. I just hate the hypocrisy of talking heads saying the players have a commitment to fullfull when the schools abandon commitment when a better player comes along.
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allen
1/2/2017 6:03 PM
Can the schools and the NCAA at least pay insurance for potential draftee's playing in meaningless bowls. Kudo's to schools like Ohio that can afford the CBI, most schools take a loss. CC-Cat, I hear what you are saying. I have the utmost respect for Corey Davis and others that play. Jake Butt lost and jabril peppers, leonard fournette and McCaffrey did not. The rolling scholarship issue should be addressed and the removing kids with injury from scholarship. Ohio got sued by a tight end with the first name of John or Jon and other for releasing them. I wonder what the outcome was. The kid came back and became a grad assistant.
Last Edited: 1/2/2017 6:33:08 PM by allen
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BillyTheCat
1/2/2017 6:06 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Can the schools and the NCAA at least pay insurance for potential draftee's playing in meaningless bowls. Kudo's to schools like Ohio that can afford the CBI, most schools take a loss. CC-Cat, I hear what you are saying. I have the utmost respect for Corey Davis and others that play. Jake Butt lost and jabril peppers, leonard fournette and McCaffrey did not. The rolling scholarship issue should be addressed and the removing kids with injury from scholarship. Ohio go sued by a tight end with the first name of John or Jon and other for releasing them. I wonder what the outcome was. The kid came back and became a grad assistant.
We take losses on the CBI as well, we just budget from student fees to cover the loss.
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Robert Fox
1/2/2017 6:16 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
I just hate the hypocrisy of talking heads saying the players have a commitment to fullfull when the schools abandon commitment when a better player comes along.
That's a valid argument, but I don't think it's a winning strategy to advocate bad behavior to justify some perceived injustice. This whole thing sets a horrible example and it starts a slippery slope. It won't be long before some high school kid opts out of his state championship game because he just got an offer from USC.

You signed up for a gig. You finish the gig. I preached that to my kids, and I still believe in it. 100 percent.
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