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Topic: 'Ohio' University ... but ...
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Lande71
2/8/2017 7:18 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
This is all just puff, just talk to pass the time.

I prefer to wait and see the performances on the field come fall.
Can we count on this Monroe?

Every year. And, for the past four or so, too many here don't get the facts and what's happening. Too much wishful thinking not leavened by reality.

I'm your Messenger of Reality. You want MoR!

Monroe, you have now lost all credibility! You shall not need to speak again until next November!
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Monroe Slavin
2/9/2017 12:21 AM
I didn't say that I wouldn't be here to defend against poor logic.
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C Money
2/10/2017 5:23 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
In this year's class there were five players who were unranked, and ergo presumed to be awful. Those are Cox, Rourke, Floyd, Ogun-Semore, and Ross. If you look at the rest of the class, Ohio would be second in the MAC in average rating per player, but if you include those five, and presume they are no good, Ohio's class drops into the bottom half. I personally thing all five are very good.
FWIW, 247 has now assigned ratings to all of Ohio's signees.

http://ohio.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Commits

Cox: 2 stars, 0.7682
Rourke: 2 stars, 0.7893
Floyd: 2 stars, 0.7642
Ogun-Semore: 2 stars, 0.7723
Ross: 2 stars, 0.7580

Moves the class ranking up to #99 nationally, and #7 in the conference.
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bshot44
2/10/2017 5:25 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
In this year's class there were five players who were unranked, and ergo presumed to be awful. Those are Cox, Rourke, Floyd, Ogun-Semore, and Ross. If you look at the rest of the class, Ohio would be second in the MAC in average rating per player, but if you include those five, and presume they are no good, Ohio's class drops into the bottom half. I personally thing all five are very good.
FWIW, 247 has now assigned ratings to all of Ohio's signees.

http://ohio.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Commits

Cox: 2 stars, 0.7682
Rourke: 2 stars, 0.7893
Floyd: 2 stars, 0.7642
Ogun-Semore: 2 stars, 0.7723
Ross: 2 stars, 0.7580

Moves the class ranking up to #99 nationally, and #7 in the conference.

#7 in the MAC...and it's being raved as Frank's best ever. Sad days.

I hope they all turn out to be difference makers and lead to a lot of wins. That's when we truly be able to rate them as a class.
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Monroe Slavin
2/10/2017 5:36 PM
Here's a rating for you:

Miami's qb Ragland, a soph last season, threw 50% of their passes for 17 td's and only 1 interception.

He did not throw a pass in their first six games last year, 0-6.

He threw every pass in their seventh game. They went on a 6 game winning steak, lost their bowl to a 6-7 final record.

Miami plays in South Bend next season.

Those are pretty amazing stats for Ragland. Maybe an aberration, a tremendous hot streak.

Otherwise, looks like we're playing for second place in the East next year.
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TWT
2/10/2017 9:02 PM
It starts up front and Miami signing 4 lineman to Ohio's 9 doesn't seem like they'll be able to upgrade play for next season. Temple if you can remember turned around its program up front. That's why a composite team ranking is fairly worthless in the whole recruiting discussion.
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L.C.
2/10/2017 9:10 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
FWIW, 247 has now assigned ratings to all of Ohio's signees.
... [/QUOTE]
Hmm, that will make it harder a few years from now when I go back to demonstrate the normal inverse correlation. Historically the recruits that are the best are the unrated ones, and they have consistently done better in actual results than 3-star recruits have. Examples include Carrie, Brazill, Basham, Poling, and Blair Brown, among others.


[QUOTE=bshot44] #7 in the MAC...and it's being raved as Frank's best ever. Sad days.

I hope they all turn out to be difference makers and lead to a lot of wins. That's when we truly be able to rate them as a class.

Keep in mind that for Ohio, at least, there has historically been no correlation between recruiting rankings and actual performance, but here are the points awarded to Ohio by year, and the average ranking on 247Sports by year:

2012 112.25 points, average 77.08
2013 91.72, 76.18
2014 102.45, 75.97
2015 132.38, 77.33
2016 107.77, 77.3
2017 119.17, 78.8
'
Arguably the 2015 class was better, but that included Deontai Williams (still in JUCO, should be eligible for 2018 class), Jeff Christian (spent a year at Ohio Dominican, now at Ohio, but had to sit out last year), Demetrius Colbert (quit football due to concussions), London Cloud (I think he ended up at Toledo as a non-qualifier, but isn't on their roster), Clayton Glasco (went to JUCO, never returned), Najee Stevens-McKenzie (never qualified), Langston Provitt (quit football due to concussions), and Adrell Taylor (legal issues). Without those players, I think 2015 was not as good as 2017, but we'll have to see if there are any losses from the 2017 class.

As you said, how they perform on the field will be the true judge of how good they are.
Last Edited: 2/10/2017 9:20:48 PM by L.C.
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Monroe Slavin
2/11/2017 12:57 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Here's a rating for you:

Miami's qb Ragland, a soph last season, threw 50% of their passes for 17 td's and only 1 interception.

He did not throw a pass in their first six games last year, 0-6.

He threw every pass in their seventh game. They went on a 6 game winning steak, lost their bowl to a 6-7 final record.

Miami plays in South Bend next season.

Those are pretty amazing stats for Ragland. Maybe an aberration, a tremendous hot streak.

Otherwise, looks like we're playing for second place in the East next year.

Still sticking with all the projections nonsense...the reality of this doesn't concern anyone in re our prospects for the next two years?
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TWT
2/12/2017 11:27 AM
No because Miami caught teams sleeping last year and could very well go 5-7 next year. Its good they are no longer the worst team in college football anymore. Im more concerned with Bowling Green who had a much better recruiting class.
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Monroe Slavin
2/12/2017 11:55 AM
That's the logic that you want to go with?

First, no team should be caught sleeping for any game. Would you accept that as an excuse for OHIO losing a game? I've never seen anyone use that excuse for an OHIO loss...or, at least, use it and not have it bring heat if it were so.

Second, after Redhawk won, at most, two games...especially with the new qb brought on and doing it...do you think anyone could have been caught unaware?

Second, 17 tds and 1 interception could have been just a wildly lucky streak.

But would you feel confident if he was your qb?


Look, their dude (listed 6'1" and 211) could fall back to earth next year. But given how important quarterbacking is and what Redhawk returns vs. what we have...well, the conclusion should be obvious.




Uh, recruits. What % of recruits ever contribute at all given failure to see the field (grades, injuries, loss of interest, etc) or lack of talent. Also, recruits generally redshirt and, so, take two years to contribute. Are you speaking of BG's 2016 recruiting class?

I'd go with proven talent over the potential of recruits every time.
Last Edited: 2/12/2017 11:57:52 AM by Monroe Slavin
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Buckeye to Bobcat
2/12/2017 2:08 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
That's the logic that you want to go with?

First, no team should be caught sleeping for any game. Would you accept that as an excuse for OHIO losing a game? I've never seen anyone use that excuse for an OHIO loss...or, at least, use it and not have it bring heat if it were so.

Second, after Redhawk won, at most, two games...especially with the new qb brought on and doing it...do you think anyone could have been caught unaware?

Second, 17 tds and 1 interception could have been just a wildly lucky streak.

But would you feel confident if he was your qb?


Look, their dude (listed 6'1" and 211) could fall back to earth next year. But given how important quarterbacking is and what Redhawk returns vs. what we have...well, the conclusion should be obvious.




Uh, recruits. What % of recruits ever contribute at all given failure to see the field (grades, injuries, loss of interest, etc) or lack of talent. Also, recruits generally redshirt and, so, take two years to contribute. Are you speaking of BG's 2016 recruiting class?

I'd go with proven talent over the potential of recruits every time.
Glad someone figured out what I've been saying in that Miami will win the East next year
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TWT
2/12/2017 4:03 PM
The rise of UC football has stolen Miami's lunch. Academically Ohio St has stolen Miami's lunch as the top public university. Miami's traditional advantages in the MAC are not there anymore. Sorry that is just the way I see it.
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L.C.
2/12/2017 5:16 PM
Monroe, the only problem with Miami is that for a short period they seem to have forgotten that they suck. Hopefully, over the off season they will remember.

IF recruiting rankings were accurate, and IF recruiting rankings accurately predicted what happens on the field, (neither of which is entirely true), then combining the last five years of recruiting rankings, the standings next year would be:
WMU
Toledo
NIU
Miami
BG
Ohio
Ball State
CMU
Buffalo
EMU
Kent
Akron

For reference, in 2016, the same method would have predicted:
Toledo Actual 6-2
WMU Actual 8-0
BG Actual 3-5
NIU Actual 5-3
Miami Actual 6-2
Ball St Actual 1-7
Ohio Actual 6-2
CMU Actual 3-5
Kent Actual 2-6
EMU Actual 4-4
Buffalo Actual 1-7
Akron Actual 3-5

As you can see there is a correlation, but it isn't 100% accurate. Teams that stand out as winning notably less games than you would have predicted include BG and Ball State. Teams that won more than you'd have predicted include Ohio, EMU, and Akron. That's why they play the games, though.
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CA Bobcat
2/12/2017 7:18 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
That's the logic that you want to go with?

First, no team should be caught sleeping for any game. Would you accept that as an excuse for OHIO losing a game? I've never seen anyone use that excuse for an OHIO loss...or, at least, use it and not have it bring heat if it were so.

Second, after Redhawk won, at most, two games...especially with the new qb brought on and doing it...do you think anyone could have been caught unaware?

Second, 17 tds and 1 interception could have been just a wildly lucky streak.

But would you feel confident if he was your qb?


Look, their dude (listed 6'1" and 211) could fall back to earth next year. But given how important quarterbacking is and what Redhawk returns vs. what we have...well, the conclusion should be obvious.




Uh, recruits. What % of recruits ever contribute at all given failure to see the field (grades, injuries, loss of interest, etc) or lack of talent. Also, recruits generally redshirt and, so, take two years to contribute. Are you speaking of BG's 2016 recruiting class?

I'd go with proven talent over the potential of recruits every time.
Glad someone figured out what I've been saying in that Miami will win the East next year
Not sure an endorsement from that guy is something you wanna brag about. He's wrong about pretty much everything.
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cc-cat
2/12/2017 7:48 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Here's a rating for you:

Miami's qb Ragland, a soph last season, threw 50% of their passes for 17 td's and only 1 interception.

He did not throw a pass in their first six games last year, 0-6.

He threw every pass in their seventh game. They went on a 6 game winning steak, lost their bowl to a 6-7 final record.

Miami plays in South Bend next season.

Those are pretty amazing stats for Ragland. Maybe an aberration, a tremendous hot streak.

Otherwise, looks like we're playing for second place in the East next year.
Not bad for s 2 star recruit according to 247 Sports
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L.C.
2/12/2017 8:52 PM
Bowling Green ended the year on a 3 game winning streak, too. They certainly have the talent to make a run to win the East next year as well.

For the record, Miami beat Ohio in recruiting in 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2017. Ohio won in 2008 and 2013. Obviously Ohio had very little hope of winning any games against Miami from 2006-2017.
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TWT
2/12/2017 9:13 PM
The turn around for BG was marked from the beginning blasted by OSU to the end of the season. Ohio played BG right in the middle between how they played from the beginning to the end of the season. NIU is another one with a slow start last year. A program in my opinion is allowed an occasional down season. Frank himself was 4-8 in 2008. My biggest concern is BG back to form and we get them on the road this time. With Akron the ceiling is low on that program and I think 2016 was going to have to be the year for them to break through. Kent isn't bringing much talent into the program and Buffalo is so inconsistent. I feel the East is going to go through the Ohio-BG game again next year in all probability. Miami will be still in the race I'm sure when they walk into Athens so expect some hype for that one. At the end of the day I'm not expecting a quantum leap from them like some are predicting based on nostalgia of years ago when Miami was a point of pride for the state as far and away the most selective public school.
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ExCat21
2/13/2017 8:06 AM
Miami will not win the MAC EAST in 2017. It will be between Ohio and Buffalo/Akron on final week. Bowling Green lost a lot of players and will probably take 2 years to recover.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
2/13/2017 10:43 AM
ExCat21 wrote:expand_more
Miami will not win the MAC EAST in 2017. It will be between Ohio and Buffalo/Akron on final week. Bowling Green lost a lot of players and will probably take 2 years to recover.
When you sign as many JUCO's as we did at critical spots, tells me we whiffed in recruiting in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So for us to attempt to say we're gonna go gunning for a MAC Title when we're bringing in 9 o-lineman, you're essentially saying that our depth chart is garbage and here is your new two-deep. Along with a JUCO QB, tells me all I need to know about Maxwell.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
2/13/2017 11:29 AM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Miami will not win the MAC EAST in 2017. It will be between Ohio and Buffalo/Akron on final week. Bowling Green lost a lot of players and will probably take 2 years to recover.
When you sign as many JUCO's as we did at critical spots, tells me we whiffed in recruiting in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So for us to attempt to say we're gonna go gunning for a MAC Title when we're bringing in 9 o-lineman, you're essentially saying that our depth chart is garbage and here is your new two-deep. Along with a JUCO QB, tells me all I need to know about Maxwell.
Maxwell could have been the second coming of Chad Pennington and we'd still have been recruiting quarterbacks with the idea that at least one could step in quickly if needed. I don't think you're on target with that assessment.
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allen
2/13/2017 12:00 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Miami will not win the MAC EAST in 2017. It will be between Ohio and Buffalo/Akron on final week. Bowling Green lost a lot of players and will probably take 2 years to recover.
When you sign as many JUCO's as we did at critical spots, tells me we whiffed in recruiting in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So for us to attempt to say we're gonna go gunning for a MAC Title when we're bringing in 9 o-lineman, you're essentially saying that our depth chart is garbage and here is your new two-deep. Along with a JUCO QB, tells me all I need to know about Maxwell.
Maxwell needed some competition. He is not a bad QB, I can't call him a good QB either. The jury is still out. I would not write him off quite yet.
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L.C.
2/13/2017 2:09 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Miami will not win the MAC EAST in 2017. It will be between Ohio and Buffalo/Akron on final week. Bowling Green lost a lot of players and will probably take 2 years to recover.

When you sign as many JUCO's as we did at critical spots, tells me we whiffed in recruiting in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So for us to attempt to say we're gonna go gunning for a MAC Title when we're bringing in 9 o-lineman, you're essentially saying that our depth chart is garbage and here is your new two-deep. Along with a JUCO QB, tells me all I need to know about Maxwell. [/QUOTE]I'm totally confused by your statements. First, there are only two JUCOs in this class, Rourke, at QB, and Hays, at OL. Virtually every class in the last decade has has 2 JUCO players. 2016 had only one, and 2 classes have had three, but the others have all had two, which doesn't seem like a lot to me.

Second, there are only 5 offensive linemen, not 9. The five are Hays, Kittrell, Tusha, Jackson, and Meservy, four Freshmen, and one Redshirt Sophomore. Of these I don't expect to see more than one play next year. There were other names mentioned in the recruiting process, but these are the only ones in the final class.

[QUOTE=Deciduous Forest Cat]Maxwell could have been the second coming of Chad Pennington and we'd still have been recruiting quarterbacks with the idea that at least one could step in quickly if needed. I don't think you're on target with that assessment.

Exactly. There are not enough QBs on the roster. They definitely needed two in this class, and I pointed that out back when they first started recruiting for 2016. They added a Freshman and a true Sophomore, both of whom I think will be very good. Can either of them beat out Maxwell for the starting job? We'll have to wait and see how good they are, and how much progress Maxwell makes from last year to next. I feel like the position finally has some depth, though, and I see that as a positive, not a negative.
Last Edited: 2/13/2017 2:15:02 PM by L.C.
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giacomo
2/13/2017 3:35 PM
With all the back and forth going on there ought to be an orgasm at the end of this thread.

I must laugh at those that think they can predict the outcome of the next football season.
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Monroe Slavin
2/13/2017 8:09 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
That's the logic that you want to go with?

First, no team should be caught sleeping for any game. Would you accept that as an excuse for OHIO losing a game? I've never seen anyone use that excuse for an OHIO loss...or, at least, use it and not have it bring heat if it were so.

Second, after Redhawk won, at most, two games...especially with the new qb brought on and doing it...do you think anyone could have been caught unaware?

Second, 17 tds and 1 interception could have been just a wildly lucky streak.

But would you feel confident if he was your qb?


Look, their dude (listed 6'1" and 211) could fall back to earth next year. But given how important quarterbacking is and what Redhawk returns vs. what we have...well, the conclusion should be obvious.




Uh, recruits. What % of recruits ever contribute at all given failure to see the field (grades, injuries, loss of interest, etc) or lack of talent. Also, recruits generally redshirt and, so, take two years to contribute. Are you speaking of BG's 2016 recruiting class?

I'd go with proven talent over the potential of recruits every time.

Gia--Of course, no one knows. But some are trying to lay down facts achieved on the field last year on the premise that those are reasonable indicators for the next year. That doesn't seem far-fetched.


We have a couple 'Vegas odds' experts on this board. I'm curious who they think the favorites are for next year in the East. I gotta think (really, I do) that Miami is a solid favorite based on their qb's stats and winning 6 of their last 7.

Would any of you bet against them?
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L.C.
2/13/2017 9:21 PM
The MAC is not the easiest conference for pundits to project. In most years the most accurate preseason picks came from Phil Steele, but he had an off year last year, finishing 10th of 20 overall, and he was second from last in the MAC East, though he did nail the MAC West.

Here is last year's picks:
http://www.stassen.com/preseason/consensus/2016.html

and here's how they rated out:
http://preseason.stassen.com/prediction-accuracy/2016.html

The overall winner last year was Athlon, and the best East prediction came from Arena Fanatic who called it Ohio, BG, Miami, Akron, Kent, Buffalo.
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