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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
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L.C.
3/18/2017 10:39 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Back to scheduling...it seems to me the real question is what is the value of these mid week games to OHIO? ...

I think you covered it, for the most part, Casper. Being realistic, in the absence of mid-week games, MAC games on TV would be scarce, just as they used to be. Thus we can presume that in the absence of the mid-week games, there would be no ESPN contract at all.

The value, therefore, takes several forms:
1. Cash value - the ESPN contract pays Ohio about $7-800,000 a year, if I recall. On the other hand, it costs Ohio attendance, and concession revenue for a couple home games. The net is probably about $500,000 more revenue for Ohio.
2. Exposure value, which you hit on, takes two forms, exposure to potential recruits, and exposure to potential students. Note that it doesn't have to be a conscious choice, so surveying incoming students would have to be done carefully. You can't ask "is it the primary reason you chose Ohio?" because no one would admit to that. Instead you might ask "did you ever see any Ohio sports on TV, and if so, which sports?"
3. Connectivity to alums - The value to Ohio of those 60 year old guys might be former students who, seeing Ohio on TV, think back to their days in school. Later, when they fund raiser calls, they open their checkbook and send a donation. As I have pointed out in the past, schools with successful football programs seem to experience better giving to their general fund (not just to athletic giving).
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Mike Johnson
3/18/2017 10:59 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Back to scheduling...it seems to me the real question is what is the value of these mid week games to OHIO? ...

I think you covered it, for the most part, Casper. Being realistic, in the absence of mid-week games, MAC games on TV would be scarce, just as they used to be. Thus we can presume that in the absence of the mid-week games, there would be no ESPN contract at all.

The value, therefore, takes several forms:
1. Cash value - the ESPN contract pays Ohio about $7-800,000 a year, if I recall. On the other hand, it costs Ohio attendance, and concession revenue for a couple home games. The net is probably about $500,000 more revenue for Ohio.
2. Exposure value, which you hit on, takes two forms, exposure to potential recruits, and exposure to potential students. Note that it doesn't have to be a conscious choice, so surveying incoming students would have to be done carefully. You can't ask "is it the primary reason you chose Ohio?" because no one would admit to that. Instead you might ask "did you ever see any Ohio sports on TV, and if so, which sports?"
3. Connectivity to alums - The value to Ohio of those 60 year old guys might be former students who, seeing Ohio on TV, think back to their days in school. Later, when they fund raiser calls, they open their checkbook and send a donation. As I have pointed out in the past, schools with successful football programs seem to experience better giving to their general fund (not just to athletic giving).
Other benefits of the ESPN exposure - heightening awareness among parents of prospective students and coaches of potential recruits.
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OhioCatFan
3/18/2017 11:10 PM
L.C., I agree with the points that you raise in your post. I would only add that one thing I really liked about C-USA when all this MAC weekday game business started is that they had their TV contract with CBS Sports, which meant that most of their November games were on Saturdays. Now, CBS Sports was not as widely viewed as ESPN, but it's available nationwide, though sometimes it's not part of standard sports packages and, therefore, requires an additional monthly payment. In some respects I think the MAC might have been better off with this kind of arrangement, at least initially, when the MAC was getting less with ESPN than C-USA was with CBS Sports. That's all changed now, in the MAC's favor, so maybe it was a wise move to stick with ESPN. But, I really, really prefer Saturday games, particularly in November!
Last Edited: 3/18/2017 11:15:52 PM by OhioCatFan
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Pataskala
3/19/2017 11:29 AM
The big benefit of ESPN vs CBSSN is versatility. The ESPNs are available on any wifi connection or smart phone through WatchESPN, and can be Chromecast to a real TV. More people have access to it in more ways, whether they're home or not. CBSSN is only available on cable/satellite, unless you happen to subscribe to one of very few internet services that let you stream it. Internet TV is the current wave of the future, so having that versatility with ESPN is a big plus.
Last Edited: 3/19/2017 11:30:41 AM by Pataskala
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ts1227
3/19/2017 1:27 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Back to scheduling...it seems to me the real question is what is the value of these mid week games to OHIO? ...

I think you covered it, for the most part, Casper. Being realistic, in the absence of mid-week games, MAC games on TV would be scarce, just as they used to be. Thus we can presume that in the absence of the mid-week games, there would be no ESPN contract at all.

The value, therefore, takes several forms:
1. Cash value - the ESPN contract pays Ohio about $7-800,000 a year, if I recall. On the other hand, it costs Ohio attendance, and concession revenue for a couple home games. The net is probably about $500,000 more revenue for Ohio.
2. Exposure value, which you hit on, takes two forms, exposure to potential recruits, and exposure to potential students. Note that it doesn't have to be a conscious choice, so surveying incoming students would have to be done carefully. You can't ask "is it the primary reason you chose Ohio?" because no one would admit to that. Instead you might ask "did you ever see any Ohio sports on TV, and if so, which sports?"
3. Connectivity to alums - The value to Ohio of those 60 year old guys might be former students who, seeing Ohio on TV, think back to their days in school. Later, when they fund raiser calls, they open their checkbook and send a donation. As I have pointed out in the past, schools with successful football programs seem to experience better giving to their general fund (not just to athletic giving).
I can see the tickets being a decent hit, because you also have to account for the fact that they also tend to decrease the price for the weekday games to get the butts in seats. I would assume concession difference is negligible, as the main detractor from buying the concessions are the concessions themselves, and their high school crappiness.
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GoCats105
3/20/2017 9:55 AM
Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Well if there was ever any question the most important thing to this sport is that article summed it up. So on one hand mid-major programs complain about the power and the influence of money at the P5 level, yet turn around and basically let it control every action at our level. We’re no better by selling ourselves out simply for a paycheck.

For the record I think it’s very short-cited. Do people tune in because there’s no other games on? Sure, I think that’s valid, but will they continue to tune in to watch games when absolutely nobody is in the stadium? I’m not sure about that. I think long-term viewers will ultimately find that boring - without fans it turns something possibly compelling into ho-hum television. 5-10 years ago watching a mid-major game on tv was compelling because the fans showed up in droves to have a big game on tv. Now there’s nothing special about it, and attendance at these games continues to dwindle. Think where we were a few years ago for that blackout game vs Temple (packed house), then look at our games last year. They are playing with fire by alienating entire fan bases. Students that don’t go to games (and to be fair some weeknights it’s tough depending on exam and vacation schedules and cold weather) won't go on to become future loyal supporters. Not to mention young alumni coming back to visit on weekends those first couple of years out. Also, fans that have to travel a decent distance, such as myself, never can see a key conference home game in person. We’re usually stuck going to see a Labor Day weekend matchup vs Gardner-Webb or trying to battle the crowds and costs of Homecoming. They’re turning off key segments of supporters leaving only the local community, and season ticket holders within an hour’s drive to prop up ticket sales. I was fortunate enough to attend during the Grobe era when students really started tailgating and attending in large numbers for the first time. Great memories of those fall Saturdays!
MD,you nailed it. I live right here in town, have seats on the 50 and access to the end zone tent but when I can watch it from the comfort of my home on a weekday night when it's cold or rainy, I do. Weekends are the way to go. And has anyone talked about the number of classes being missed?
Um, what if it's cold and rainy on a weekend?

I think the biggest difference is weekend games attract more fans from outside the area who come visit for the weekend. If you've made your plans, have hotel reservations, meeting up with friends, etc I think more are likely to go despite the weather. Weeknight games draw only those immediately in the community or close by and there isn't the incentive to go if it's cold and raining.
I think another thing people aren't taking into account is the effect on the parents of the players. It can't be easy for these parents to go to a weeknight game, especially for those who live out of state. So instead of having parents there in the stands cheer on Ohio while their kid plays for a MAC East championship on a Saturday afternoon, making an entire weekend of it possibly bringing more family members and friends with them, they have to sit at home and watch at home on TV because it's a weeknight game.
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OhioStunter
3/20/2017 4:04 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Good call.

I use alternative tenses.
http://clutchosity.com/posts/58d034ccafcfd-clutchosity-3

I had no idea...
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Monroe Slavin
3/20/2017 6:49 PM
True.
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Old Zone
3/20/2017 11:59 PM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
One gripe: rivals getting a crappy game.

Look at the Zips. Their two biggest conference draws, Kent and OHIO are on week nights in November. Total BS. And few fans in the stands when there may have been many on a balmy Saturday in September/October.

If the two November Akron opponents were low draw games then there is a benefit for the exposure. Taking revenue away from the Zips by scheduling the way they did is indefensible.
So you're saying I'd have to take both shoes and socks off to count the "crowd" at a Zippy home game if Kent and Ohio fans swelled attendance on a balmy September/October Saturday, but only one for a week night?
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Maryland Bobcat
3/22/2017 12:49 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Back to scheduling...it seems to me the real question is what is the value of these mid week games to OHIO? To me, value would be increased enrollment, you know kids paying a bunch of money to go to school at OHIO. I really think some year they should survey new students and ask them: Is one of the primary reasons why you are enrolling at OHIO because you saw mid week football games on TV in November?

I don't think it is much value if a bunch of "non interested" 60 year old guys who are bored watch these games. Again, I would ask what is the value to OHIO of those viewers?

Seems to me the one potential value is "better" recruits. I have to question that premis given the program has not really moved forward on the field that much lately. And, do we ask the new recruits if they are coming to OHIO because we played mid games and they saw us or were they already identified and interested for other reasons?

So, experts, what do you think is the "real" value of playing mid week in November?
Can we stop kidding ourselves that there's any real value outside of 1: pure cash? Last time I checked Ohio University was not hurting for applicants, and I can't seriously believe anyone would choose to apply due to a particularly exciting football game vs Buffalo on a Tuesday night in front of 11,000 fans. It's the same reason marginal bowl games with 6-6 MAC teams exist - it fills programming slots at ESPN which equals cash for us. A Tuesday MAC game in an empty stadium can still can bring in more viewers and make more $ for ESPN than a 30 for 30 on the rise and fall of Rafael Palmeiro.

I think it's a massive stretch to think our athletic department and/or the MAC commish are considering any other factors when scheduling these games other than pure, simple MONEY.
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oubobcatjohn
3/24/2017 2:31 AM
If the MAC does this type of schedules where every conference game is on a Tuesday/Wednesday then they should get creative and line up games at 1pm, 4pm and 7pm on ESPN and ESPN2. Its just like baseball with afternoon games midweek. MAC might build a national fan base like the Chicago Cubs playing midweek day football.
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OhioStunter
3/24/2017 9:46 AM
oubobcatjohn wrote:expand_more
If the MAC does this type of schedules where every conference game is on a Tuesday/Wednesday then they should get creative and line up games at 1pm, 4pm and 7pm on ESPN and ESPN2. Its just like baseball with afternoon games midweek. MAC might build a national fan base like the Chicago Cubs playing midweek day football.
But that would interfere with classroom time for the players.


[sarcasm]
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Tymaster
3/24/2017 10:13 AM
I feel there is value in the midweek games. As a MAC fan in general, it gives me an opportunity to learn about the opposition. I think the numbers would surprise people. There is a segment of the population that just LOVES televised football and those Tuesday and Wednesday nights were a void until "MACtion" became a thing. Are there drawbacks? Sure. I live and teach a mere hour away but if it's an 8 o'clock kickoff on a worknight forget about it! Also, my g/f is from Akron and is a Bowling Green alum. So, while I'll get to go to the BGSU game I'll have to miss the Akron game BUT I'll be comfy on my own couch.
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