Bshot: the Novak things sticks out to me in that list. Novak laid the ground work and couldn't get over the hump. Frank is doing the same.

Looking at Nehlen's record at BG, you'd get the idea that he was all washed up after those nine seasons, if you didn't know the rest of the story. He goes to WVU and in his 14th year there (23rd season as a college head coach) he wins his first conference title. Now, I must note that his first 11 years at WVU they were an independent. It's also instructive to note that in the three years leading up to the Big East title, his records were 4-7, 6-5 and 5-4-2. I suspect that Mountaineer Monroe was calling for his canning as a too conservative, has-been coach. Then in 1993 he goes 11-1 (7-0 in BE). I think it's premature to predict with any level of confidence that Frank can't win a MACC. He's come awfully close twice, and it looks like his best teams are yet to come.

I've heard this song for years .... his best teams are yet to come. What does that mean? Having two guys drafted and another one sign a UDFA contract from their defense isn't good enough to win a MACC? Oh, that's right .... it wasn't.

Having arguably the best QB in Ohio history (Tettleton) and some serious weapons/some future NFL talent around him (Price, Brazill, Foster, Blankenship, Bates) wasn't enough to get one?

He's had the talent to win a MACC and hasn't. Period. He did come awfully close a few times....but that is all. Awfully close.

I just don't see how 12 years of topping out at "awfully close" leads me to believe that he'll steal one in the next few years. We've peaked as a program under Solich. He's still a pretty good football coach and better than a lot of guys out there. But 8-4 is probably our ceiling going forward....the typical 2-2 out of conference, 5-3 or 6-2 MAC record. What has happened in the last 5 seasons .... or the last 12 ....that gives you belief that suddenly that's going to change for our 72 year old coach?

+1

If we keep getting there, eventually we're going to make that one play that gets it done in crunch time. Do we have that QB with ice in his veins, who's going to make the tough throw at the end? Only TT in recent memory did that for us... ever, but unfortunately not in his one title appearance.

OK, I finally get it. In the case of Nehlen you are allowed to cite "almost wins" but in the case of Frank you are not allowed to do this. Two MACC losses by less than a TD don't count, and can't be used in assessing Frank's coaching ability, but Nehlen's competitive losses to ranked teams and in the so-called national championship game give him coaching credibility. As long as I understand the ground rules and the assumptions, I'm in a position of saying that your logic is impeccable and the conclusions unassailable.

No.

We were 8-6 last year after 8-5 the year before. We play the teams that we play so no matter how you look at it; our record was worse this past season than the one prior despite the presence of many All-MAC.

I'm not so sure that a coach in his 70's who hasn't won a league title in 12 years or developed many qb's very much is attractive to recruits.

Will someone point out to me many instances of Solich staff strategy or inspiration turning the tide and beating teams which we 'shouldn't have.' Probably Pitt at Peden. Maybe vs Penn State at their place. Otherwise, about none. Solich is what he is; 20-0 to 20-23 is too representative.

Odds that all four of these work out such that we have a good year this coming season have got to be small: key losses on D, holes to fill on O-line, little proven returning at qb and wideout.


Yes, I get it. I'm repeating again. But these is pretty much facts. Tell me the likelihood of us overcoming all of the four apparent deficits. 'Cause if we don't solve those things, we have serious vulnerabilities.

I hate that I'm going into the gutter, but I'll do it all the same.

I understand the complaint that Solich hasn't won a MACC. That's a certifiable fact and the concern that he hasn't done so in 12 years is justified. What I don't get is the complaint that he 'won't' or 'can't' win one.

There were eight conference title games before Solich arrived in the MAC. During that time, OHIO never once made the championship game. That, too, is a fact.

In the twelve years since Solich arrived, OHIO has made the title game four times. They are averaging an appearance once every three years. I could see that getting even better this upcoming year.

So I guess the question should be, "Can OHIO with Solich game plan to win a MACC in isolation?" He's getting us to the finish line, we just haven't been able to cross it.

I would compare this to our bowl games. He has not fared well in these games either, admittedly, holding a record of 2-6. However, he has gotten OHIO over the hump on occasion. He's getting us where we want to go, he's just not completing the trip consistently.

That's another valid complaint. But that doesn't mean he 'won't' or 'can't'. If you watch the MACC, those games always seem to be a toss-up, with surprising results often. Thus, if the thought is that each team has a 50/50 shot (and I think the Lefevre years and last year weren't really 50/50), Solich has had some unfortunate luck.

Solich won a conference title at Nebraska in 1999, proving he could win the title. I just hope that day comes at OHIO as well.

Nehlen accomplished tangible things. Conference titles...11-0 seasons. Solich has accomplished nothing like that. A couple bowl wins is nice, but nothing like what Nehlen did at WVU.

Comparing the two is silly

When Ohio goes undefeated and plays for a potential national title twice in five years like Nehlen did at WVU...we'll start to compare them.

Hell.... when Ohio plays a schedule anything like WVU did during Nehlen era we can compare him.

So yes... almost wins over top 15 competition on a yearly basis carries a little more weight than almost wins in MACC 4 times in 12 years... or almost wins over powerhouses like Eastern Michigan on your home field.

I didn't say Solich should be fired.

I stated my opinion that I don't think he'll win a MACC.

I stated fact that he is one of longest tenured coaches in MAC history to not win a title (and two years from staking claim to that all by himself)

Argue my opinion all you want. But the facts are the facts

In the 94 bowl games MAC teams have played the MAC prevailed only 34 times, 17 of those 34 being by Toledo & Miami.

You are correct that I don't know for sure that recruiting is improving, but to me it appears to be. You are right that we won't know for sure till we see them play the next few years. If you don't mind, though, could you also answer the second question? If Ohio's recruiting is improving, do you think that will ultimately be reflected on the field?

The past is a good starting point, but then you have to adjust for changes. If recruiting is changing, and I think it is, you have to adjust for that. If Solich was able to use bottom of the MAC recruiting to get to the Championship game every few years, and to get to bowls most years, will he be able to accomplish more with even better recruits?

Stop. Just stop.

Nehlen spent over half his WVU coaching career as an independent...so 11 of those years he was unable to win a league title because there was no league title to win.

He spent the last 10 years in a league that produced a team that either won or played for the national title 4 times and that produced 26 teams that finished the season ranked in the top 25. (Compare that to Solich's 12 years in the MAC where 3 teams have finished the season ranked)

Full disclosure...I grew up in WV and have been a WVU fan for years. And no, I don't think Nehlen was an elite coach or even a great coach. But he is in the CFB Hall of Fame.
I think WVU fans remember him for turning WVU into a nationally recognized program. He took a program that had some regional recognition and made the nation stand up and take notice.

But I'm sure a lot of WVU fans also still have the bad taste of 10 years where they were pre-season Top 25 and finished in the Top 25 only 3 of those seasons.

So by the time he retired, there had been quite a few rumblings about "his time is over"

But two 11-0 seasons and two shots at a national title laid the groundwork for what Rich Rod elevated and what Bill Stewart and Dana Holgerson have continued. They aren't in the Big 12 because they were a floundering program in the 90's and into the 2000s. It's because they had built a strong program. Remember, the Big 12 took them even though they didn't have any TV market attached to them. They aren't Rutgers and Maryland, where the B1G took them just to get NYC and Wash DC TV markets for BTN. All WVU brought with them was a respectable football and basketball program that have been very competitive in the Big 12 since arriving.

What has Ohio done since Frank Solich has taken over? Yes, Ohio is a very competitive program in one of the worst FBS leagues that hasn't won a league title in nearly 50 years. Does that make Solich a bad coach? No. Never said that. But I think it's getting pretty apparent that he has taken Ohio as far as he can. We are what we are. An 8-5, 5-3/6-2 program against traditionally pretty weak schedules. Those are just the facts. We aren't a MAC powerhouse. We don't rule the league. You don't think had Brady Hoke stayed at Ball State for 12 years, they wouldn't have had a run of title or title game appearances? Turner Gill at Buffalo? Dave Doeren or Jerry Kill at NIU? Dino Babers at BG? PJ Fleck at WMU?

Solich is what he is. A good football coach. But he hasn't exactly rolled into the MAC and grabbed it by throat and turned Ohio into a national powerhouse.

We are who we are. Quit trying to elevate Ohio or Solich to something like WVU?