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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Football reporting
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Bobcat110alum
8/22/2017 4:42 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
You keep making these blanket statements about millennial entitlement. Why?
It has nothing to do with entitlement. No millennial is sitting there waiting with their hand out asking for $80k a year with no experience.

EDIT: I'm sure there are plenty of people that do ask for more without doing anything, but it's certainly not limited to millennials.
It's obviously my "get off my lawn" moment. You're right....they are blanket statement and not necessarily indicative of all millennials.

But when people keep using the excuse that this job is "low pay and bad hours" .... that just sounds like an excuse to me.

Yes...the majority of jobs in sports and athletic depts at schools are low pay and bad hours. That shouldn't be the reason why Ohio can't staff competent people or why they don't bother turning out quality products?

Tom Symonds didn't make squat working at OU....now is at Miami (FL) as football SID

Tanner Smith didn't make squate working at OU ... now is working for Columbus Blue Jackets

There are a lot of other success stories of people that came into OUr athletic dept and worked hard and parlayed a better job after it.

The excuse that job doesn't pay well is just that. An excuse.
Fair enough, I can see that--now we're getting somewhere! Maybe there are missed connections between the digital media group and the athletic department? Do we know if any of the students in that group know about Evan Shaw and the work he produced? Perhaps getting Evan back in Athens for a week to work with the students would help spur some interest in the positions and opportunities available working on OHIO football and basketball (if his schedule allows).
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OUs LONG Driver
8/22/2017 4:49 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Yeah, and the shear volume of work and ridiculously low pay for the hours required is exactly why Evan left the Athletics Department, and the person after him, and the person after him. When they do that much coverage for one sport, all the others want equal time, and that just ran folks off. Like I suggested earlier, feel free to donate the money to endow that staff position, and I'm sure the department will get right on then with putting those shows out again. But without that money and staffing, you are going to get what you get. Those people are already working 10+hour days right now, adding the TV shows and videos daily would double that.
It doesn't take much manpower/post-production to put up some interviews after practice.

I'm not saying produce a 30-minute TV show for every sport....but I think going from that to almost nothing is a drastic dropoff.

Yeah...the pay sucks. Yeah... the hours suck.

Suck it up millennials. That's life in that industry. Working in college athletics is NOT 9-5, M-F job.

And guess what...the pay generally sucks.

If you don't like those aspects....find a different job.

But complaining because your hours suck and the pay sucks .... and using that as a reason to not work hard. Boo! Take your participation trophy and go home.

A school like Ohio has a limited budget. It isn't going to change. But you have to find creative ways to make it work. And while, yes, the turnover in that role is probably going to be crazy .... the expectation while they're in that role shouldn't be a 2 min clip of a scrimmage with a soundbite attached to it once every 4 weeks.
Well, what if there's no student interest in doing those jobs? You say, "if you don't like it, find a different job." And it sounds like that's EXACTLY what students are doing. You're ranting about these students that need to suck it up because that's the industry, but clearly the students are picking other options. Who are you really mad at here?
These aren't student jobs. They are full-time jobs within the athletic dept.

Assistant Athletic Director for Video Productions
Director of Video Services

And yes...these, like almost any job within the athletic dept of a smaller school like Ohio, it will have less-than-ideal pay. And like ANY job in ANY athletic dept it will have bad hours.

That's what I was referring to. If you had the interest to apply and accept the role ... then do the role. If you complain about the pay & hours....then working in an athletic dept just isn't for you.

BREAKING NEWS: Hours and pay suck in the world of sports unless you play at the highest level. You might get paid well there, but your hours still suck. This is something I hear more and more from millennial crowd ... they want that 9-5, M-F job. It does NOT exist in sports. Sorry. Hate to burst bubbles.
I'm assuming you have anecdotal evidence that these positions aren't being filled by students/recent grads because of the hours and/or pay. I don't think you're really bursting anyone's bubble here. I've yet to see offense to what you've said.

I ask again, what makes anyone here think those positions are desirable to students/recent grads? I'll go a step further--what makes these positions desirable to students/recent grads from any institution who are skilled in that field? What makes this opportunity different from a slightly better paying position, or a position closer to home/larger metropolitan area?

What makes OHIO stand out?
+1, obviously not a job in high demand as we've failed to hold on to and at times struggled to find people to fill the job. Maybe if we want quality work we should pay more and increase the staff....Oh wait, that requires money we do not have.
Or maybe just accept that the job is a stepping stone and hire accordingly. Market it as a chance to work at a quality mid-major and get real hands-on experience and have the ability to do some really cool, impactful work .... and grow into a better paying job at a higher pay somewhere else.

It's this millennial attitude of gimmie, gimmie, gimmie...i'm entitled more money and better hours!

Good grief!

There are a lot of talented people out there... and ones that have come thru that job that have done quality work.

I'm not saying hire someone that will work for $22k for the rest of their life ...

Goodness. My first job out of Ohio University was for $13k in 1998. I worked my ass off and moved on.

I didn't sit around with my arms crossed demanding I get paid $80k just because.
Those damn millenials wanting to make as much money as they can and not work long hours!!! How dare they seek better paying and more fulfilling jobs!
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C Money
8/22/2017 4:59 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Or maybe just accept that the job is a stepping stone and hire accordingly. Market it as a chance to work at a quality mid-major and get real hands-on experience and have the ability to do some really cool, impactful work .... and grow into a better paying job at a higher pay somewhere else.
One could argue that this is what a MAC football HC/OC/DC should be as well...
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OUBob
8/22/2017 5:06 PM
I've been hoping someone on here would get off their lazy heinie and feed me some content.
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SBH
8/22/2017 5:07 PM
Bobcat110alum wrote:expand_more
"A student who is self motivated..." That's what it was like when many of us were students. Now, some people on this board are asking for "endowed positions?" Gimme A BREAK. Entitlement community. I agree with you, there must be 1 motivated kid in all of Scripps that can take this on. Someone who doesn't need an "endowed position" to show up a month early for school and make a name for himself. Show up at practice on behalf of Scripps and get daily interviews.
Again, broad strokes being applied here. Show me how disinterest in what you are proposing equates to laziness? Because you are inferring that students aren't doing this because they aren't "self-motivated"

Scripps students aren't leaving an internship at a reputable publication early to come to Athens and write about training camp.
Especially when there are about 35 of us who really give a crap and want to read camp coverage. Just a fact. We have a very small base of rabid fans.
Last Edited: 8/22/2017 5:08:09 PM by SBH
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SBH
8/22/2017 5:11 PM
Last Edited: 8/22/2017 5:12:51 PM by SBH
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SBH
8/22/2017 5:17 PM
LynxRufus6 wrote:expand_more
You do realize that school is out. Most kids - including a vast majority of Posties - go home and work summer jobs/internships. Reporting will pick up this week, I am sure.
Do you realize that Scripps has one of the largest and most competitive programs of the entire university? Why wouldn't the football program offer an internship to have more community outreach? There's no excuse for the lack of coverage. I'm a huge college football fan in general, and when you can read and keep updated all about the New Mexico Lobos, you should have some of the same resources for Ohio football.

Side note- I keep up with New Mexico football because I love watching their triple option offense that had more flavor than Navy's traditional attack
You're confusing a "reporter" with a media relations person. Two different animals entirely.
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bshot44
8/22/2017 5:44 PM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
Yeah, and the shear volume of work and ridiculously low pay for the hours required is exactly why Evan left the Athletics Department, and the person after him, and the person after him. When they do that much coverage for one sport, all the others want equal time, and that just ran folks off. Like I suggested earlier, feel free to donate the money to endow that staff position, and I'm sure the department will get right on then with putting those shows out again. But without that money and staffing, you are going to get what you get. Those people are already working 10+hour days right now, adding the TV shows and videos daily would double that.
It doesn't take much manpower/post-production to put up some interviews after practice.

I'm not saying produce a 30-minute TV show for every sport....but I think going from that to almost nothing is a drastic dropoff.

Yeah...the pay sucks. Yeah... the hours suck.

Suck it up millennials. That's life in that industry. Working in college athletics is NOT 9-5, M-F job.

And guess what...the pay generally sucks.

If you don't like those aspects....find a different job.

But complaining because your hours suck and the pay sucks .... and using that as a reason to not work hard. Boo! Take your participation trophy and go home.

A school like Ohio has a limited budget. It isn't going to change. But you have to find creative ways to make it work. And while, yes, the turnover in that role is probably going to be crazy .... the expectation while they're in that role shouldn't be a 2 min clip of a scrimmage with a soundbite attached to it once every 4 weeks.
Well, what if there's no student interest in doing those jobs? You say, "if you don't like it, find a different job." And it sounds like that's EXACTLY what students are doing. You're ranting about these students that need to suck it up because that's the industry, but clearly the students are picking other options. Who are you really mad at here?
These aren't student jobs. They are full-time jobs within the athletic dept.

Assistant Athletic Director for Video Productions
Director of Video Services

And yes...these, like almost any job within the athletic dept of a smaller school like Ohio, it will have less-than-ideal pay. And like ANY job in ANY athletic dept it will have bad hours.

That's what I was referring to. If you had the interest to apply and accept the role ... then do the role. If you complain about the pay & hours....then working in an athletic dept just isn't for you.

BREAKING NEWS: Hours and pay suck in the world of sports unless you play at the highest level. You might get paid well there, but your hours still suck. This is something I hear more and more from millennial crowd ... they want that 9-5, M-F job. It does NOT exist in sports. Sorry. Hate to burst bubbles.
I'm assuming you have anecdotal evidence that these positions aren't being filled by students/recent grads because of the hours and/or pay. I don't think you're really bursting anyone's bubble here. I've yet to see offense to what you've said.

I ask again, what makes anyone here think those positions are desirable to students/recent grads? I'll go a step further--what makes these positions desirable to students/recent grads from any institution who are skilled in that field? What makes this opportunity different from a slightly better paying position, or a position closer to home/larger metropolitan area?

What makes OHIO stand out?
+1, obviously not a job in high demand as we've failed to hold on to and at times struggled to find people to fill the job. Maybe if we want quality work we should pay more and increase the staff....Oh wait, that requires money we do not have.
Or maybe just accept that the job is a stepping stone and hire accordingly. Market it as a chance to work at a quality mid-major and get real hands-on experience and have the ability to do some really cool, impactful work .... and grow into a better paying job at a higher pay somewhere else.

It's this millennial attitude of gimmie, gimmie, gimmie...i'm entitled more money and better hours!

Good grief!

There are a lot of talented people out there... and ones that have come thru that job that have done quality work.

I'm not saying hire someone that will work for $22k for the rest of their life ...

Goodness. My first job out of Ohio University was for $13k in 1998. I worked my ass off and moved on.

I didn't sit around with my arms crossed demanding I get paid $80k just because.
Those damn millenials wanting to make as much money as they can and not work long hours!!! How dare they seek better paying and more fulfilling jobs!
The key word is seek. Many of them don't seek...they just want/expect/feel they are entitled. How dare they have to start at the bottom and work their way up with bad pay for a while.
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L.C.
8/22/2017 6:23 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Or maybe just accept that the job is a stepping stone and hire accordingly. Market it as a chance to work at a quality mid-major and get real hands-on experience and have the ability to do some really cool, impactful work .... and grow into a better paying job at a higher pay somewhere else.

This. Regardless of whether you have a paid full time job, students, or both, you can accept that it is a stepping stone position. If you can't offer big bucks or short hours, there are still things that you can offer to try to attract people. Things like decent equipment, respect, continuing education, creative freedom, flexible hours, a nice office, etc. Some hires will be better than others, and some will leave quicker than others, and each year will be different, but there will be some good things mixed in.
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Mark Lembright '85
8/22/2017 8:35 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
"A student who is self motivated..." That's what it was like when many of us were students. Now, some people on this board are asking for "endowed positions?" Gimme A BREAK. Entitlement community. I agree with you, there must be 1 motivated kid in all of Scripps that can take this on. Someone who doesn't need an "endowed position" to show up a month early for school and make a name for himself. Show up at practice on behalf of Scripps and get daily interviews.
Again, broad strokes being applied here. Show me how disinterest in what you are proposing equates to laziness? Because you are inferring that students aren't doing this because they aren't "self-motivated"

Scripps students aren't leaving an internship at a reputable publication early to come to Athens and write about training camp.
Especially when there are about 35 of us who really give a crap and want to read camp coverage. Just a fact. We have a very small base of rabid fans.
B-I-N-G-O!!! Literally no one but the players' families and those of us on BA care about summer camp. Heck, 90% of alumni are probably unaware there is even a summer camp right now.
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Mark Lembright '85
8/22/2017 8:41 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
Or maybe just accept that the job is a stepping stone and hire accordingly. Market it as a chance to work at a quality mid-major and get real hands-on experience and have the ability to do some really cool, impactful work .... and grow into a better paying job at a higher pay somewhere else.
One could argue that this is what a MAC football HC/OC/DC should be as well...
TOUCHÉ!!!! And altogether true much of the time.
Last Edited: 8/22/2017 8:46:57 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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L.C.
8/22/2017 9:10 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
B-I-N-G-O!!! Literally no one but the players' families and those of us on BA care about summer camp. Heck, 90% of alumni are probably unaware there is even a summer camp right now.

Actually, if I recall correctly, "Relentless" was shown as a weekly program on multiple stations across the state. It wasn't a show for rabid fans. It was a show that told a story, and was interesting in it's own right. While fans certainly watched it, it was the kind of show that non-fans might be interested in. It was the kind of show that had the potential of creating fans out of viewers. How many people watched "Relentless" then checked to see how the team did in Happy Valley, and became fans?

I agree with those that say that Arkeley does a fine job of the basic reporting, and the Post does, too, when class is in session. What is missing lately is the frills, the things that add special luster to the program, stuff like "Relentless" or the classy "A closer look" post-game videos. Those are also the kinds of programs that a creator could point to and say "See how good I am" when he is looking to move on.
Last Edited: 8/22/2017 9:12:08 PM by L.C.
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Cats2014
8/22/2017 9:52 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
"A student who is self motivated..." That's what it was like when many of us were students. Now, some people on this board are asking for "endowed positions?" Gimme A BREAK. Entitlement community. I agree with you, there must be 1 motivated kid in all of Scripps that can take this on. Someone who doesn't need an "endowed position" to show up a month early for school and make a name for himself. Show up at practice on behalf of Scripps and get daily interviews.
Again, broad strokes being applied here. Show me how disinterest in what you are proposing equates to laziness? Because you are inferring that students aren't doing this because they aren't "self-motivated"

Scripps students aren't leaving an internship at a reputable publication early to come to Athens and write about training camp.
Especially when there are about 35 of us who really give a crap and want to read camp coverage. Just a fact. We have a very small base of rabid fans.
Yes, but if there was quality camp coverage, more people would become rabid fans...
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LynxRufus6
8/23/2017 1:10 AM
Cats2014 wrote:expand_more
"A student who is self motivated..." That's what it was like when many of us were students. Now, some people on this board are asking for "endowed positions?" Gimme A BREAK. Entitlement community. I agree with you, there must be 1 motivated kid in all of Scripps that can take this on. Someone who doesn't need an "endowed position" to show up a month early for school and make a name for himself. Show up at practice on behalf of Scripps and get daily interviews.
Again, broad strokes being applied here. Show me how disinterest in what you are proposing equates to laziness? Because you are inferring that students aren't doing this because they aren't "self-motivated"

Scripps students aren't leaving an internship at a reputable publication early to come to Athens and write about training camp.
Especially when there are about 35 of us who really give a crap and want to read camp coverage. Just a fact. We have a very small base of rabid fans.
Yes, but if there was quality camp coverage, more people would become rabid fans...

I agree to an extent. I think there needs to be real on-field success and as the famous Monroe once said "Win a MACC!". There needs to be a blend of success on the field, with better marketing and more insight to the program in general. I feel like there is a very bland approach to the OU football program, and I truly believe the administration here doesn't mind it. As long as the football program funds itself, they don't entirely care about the overall success.
Real sustainable success would draw more interest in the team. Students wouldn't leave at halftime after the 110 preforms, sports journalism students would be more inclined to participate with the program and the university would see an uptick in revenue. I can't help but believe they don't really want that.

EDIT: Yes, I know Frank and co have fielded extremely consistent teams during their tenure, when I mention success I am referring to places like NIU, and Toledo.
Last Edited: 8/23/2017 1:12:06 AM by LynxRufus6
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L.C.
8/23/2017 4:57 AM
And yet, to give you something to think about, consider that attendance peaked at NIU under Joe Novak, prior to ever winning the MAC. Ever since they started winning MAC championships, attendance at NIU has been falling. In recent years they have tried a lot of promotions, but still haven't been filling their stadium. Meanwhile, Ohio, for all the criticism, has been leading the MAC in attendance.
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Valley Cat
8/23/2017 6:52 AM
I love content. I'm just confused if I want more coverage to build excitement and a fan base or I just selfishly want to know everything because Ohio Football has become an addiction that is borderline unhealthy for a 40 year old guy with a career and a family?
Realistically Arkley is fantastic I pay for the content. Unfortunately in recent days I cringe to read who the latest edition of the injury report may make up..
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rpbobcat
8/23/2017 7:10 AM
Bobcat110alum wrote:expand_more
You keep making these blanket statements about millennial entitlement. Why?
It has nothing to do with entitlement. No millennial is sitting there waiting with their hand out asking for $80k a year with no experience.
I can tell you from experience,there are.
As I've said,I lecture Land Surveying and Civil Engineering classes at F.D.U.

We get a pretty good mix of older and younger students.
Well also get a fair number of foreign students.
A number of our older students work/worked in the construction sector.

The older students,as well as students from other countries,seem to have a pretty good grasp of the real world.

The younger students,especially kids who have never had even a part time job, are clueless.

Despite what everyone tries to tell them,a number of them think they'll walk out the door and people will be lining up to offer them 80K,3-4 weeks vacation to start and work around 30 hours a week.

Some of our graduates have come back and told us about the "rude awakening" they got when they entered the work force.
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SBH
8/23/2017 8:20 AM
It's a mixed bag as I'm sure it was for employers confronting each new generation of workers. Technology has made the changes - some good, others bad -more extreme this time around. It's damned hard to raise kids today - from social media to the dramatic rise of helicopter parenting, it is very difficult to avoid spoiling kids and/or encouraging a sense of entitlement. My bride and I had some horrendous arguments over "the right way" to handle certain issues. Our sons greatly resented many of our (my) decisions. But I'm happy to say that our boys became honorable, hardworking young men who have been very successful in the early stages of their careers. In contrast, we have friends who seemingly raised their kids in a bubble, protected from every disappointment, micro-managed through every decision. A good friend demanded that her sons call her after every class at OSU so she could help them prioritize their nighttime studying. Surprise, these and many other young people are now struggling to adapt to the Real World.

I try to avoid using the broad brush when discussing Millennials. There are some very attractive characteristics I wish were more prevalent in my own generation, and there are some we'll need to help them lose as they launch their careers. However, the one thing I can tell you about the negative characteristics is that these kids weren't born with them. If we're looking for fault, there's a mirror down the hall.
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Sam bobcat
8/23/2017 8:53 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
It's a mixed bag as I'm sure it was for employers confronting each new generation of workers. Technology has made the changes - some good, others bad -more extreme this time around. It's damned hard to raise kids today - from social media to the dramatic rise of helicopter parenting, it is very difficult to avoid spoiling kids and/or encouraging a sense of entitlement. My bride and I had some horrendous arguments over "the right way" to handle certain issues. Our sons greatly resented many of our (my) decisions. But I'm happy to say that our boys became honorable, hardworking young men who have been very successful in the early stages of their careers. In contrast, we have friends who seemingly raised their kids in a bubble, protected from every disappointment, micro-managed through every decision. A good friend demanded that her sons call her after every class at OSU so she could help them prioritize their nighttime studying. Surprise, these and many other young people are now struggling to adapt to the Real World.

I try to avoid using the broad brush when discussing Millennials. There are some very attractive characteristics I wish were more prevalent in my own generation, and there are some we'll need to help them lose as they launch their careers. However, the one thing I can tell you about the negative characteristics is that these kids weren't born with them. If we're looking for fault, there's a mirror down the hall.
Bravo!
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bshot44
8/23/2017 9:13 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
You keep making these blanket statements about millennial entitlement. Why?
It has nothing to do with entitlement. No millennial is sitting there waiting with their hand out asking for $80k a year with no experience.
I can tell you from experience,there are.
As I've said,I lecture Land Surveying and Civil Engineering classes at F.D.U.

We get a pretty good mix of older and younger students.
Well also get a fair number of foreign students.
A number of our older students work/worked in the construction sector.

The older students,as well as students from other countries,seem to have a pretty good grasp of the real world.

The younger students,especially kids who have never had even a part time job, are clueless.

Despite what everyone tries to tell them,a number of them think they'll walk out the door and people will be lining up to offer them 80K,3-4 weeks vacation to start and work around 30 hours a week.

Some of our graduates have come back and told us about the "rude awakening" they got when they entered the work force.

[/QUOTE]Amen. Those were the target of my "blanket statements". I saw it all the time with interns ... this unreal expectation of what was ahead of them post-college. They were in for a rude awakening no matter what you tried to tell them.

[QUOTE=SBH] It's a mixed bag as I'm sure it was for employers confronting each new generation of workers. Technology has made the changes - some good, others bad -more extreme this time around. It's damned hard to raise kids today - from social media to the dramatic rise of helicopter parenting, it is very difficult to avoid spoiling kids and/or encouraging a sense of entitlement. My bride and I had some horrendous arguments over "the right way" to handle certain issues. Our sons greatly resented many of our (my) decisions. But I'm happy to say that our boys became honorable, hardworking young men who have been very successful in the early stages of their careers. In contrast, we have friends who seemingly raised their kids in a bubble, protected from every disappointment, micro-managed through every decision. A good friend demanded that her sons call her after every class at OSU so she could help them prioritize their nighttime studying. Surprise, these and many other young people are now struggling to adapt to the Real World.

I try to avoid using the broad brush when discussing Millennials. There are some very attractive characteristics I wish were more prevalent in my own generation, and there are some we'll need to help them lose as they launch their careers. However, the one thing I can tell you about the negative characteristics is that these kids weren't born with them. If we're looking for fault, there's a mirror down the hall.
Amen x 2. Participation Trophy era needs to end. Disappointment is a part of life ... and one that only makes you stronger.
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OU_Country
8/23/2017 9:28 AM
Valley Cat wrote:expand_more
I love content. I'm just confused if I want more coverage to build excitement and a fan base or I just selfishly want to know everything because Ohio Football has become an addiction that is borderline unhealthy for a 40 year old guy with a career and a family?
Realistically Arkley is fantastic I pay for the content. Unfortunately in recent days I cringe to read who the latest edition of the injury report may make up..
This is how I feel about hoops coverage. It's an obsession for me year round now. I'm not yet a payer for the Arkley/Messenger content, but I plan to beginning next week. I figure it's 6 bucks that is well worth it.

As for coverage in general, I think a person has to seek out Ohio/MAC coverage more than others, but that's the way the ball bounces when you're playing second or third fiddle in a state. I can get tons of OSU/UC coverage without looking too hard. I've got a rather thorough Twitter list of OU related follows that makes getting info pretty easy, but it took a couple years to develop the list.
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Bobcat110alum
8/23/2017 10:02 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Amen x 2. Participation Trophy era needs to end. Disappointment is a part of life ... and one that only makes you stronger.
I agree. My point was never to say "All millennials aren't looking for a handout" (I immediately went back and edited my post to clarify that some do, but it's not just millennials--I made a blanket statement and it was wrong). I'm five years out and only recently started making good enough money to not go to bed wondering if I'm going to make it with all the student loan debt I owe. My parents helped where they could and let me stay at home a little longer than expected, but for the most part, it was all on me. I expected nothing, because I learned it wasn't going to be easy.

My point has been, what is the school doing to make these positions more appealing, because the money won't be there and the hours aren't going to be great. What are they doing to set themselves apart? I don't think the problem boils down to kids not wanting to work, I think it boils down to the position not being good enough to take over other options.
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Alan Swank
8/23/2017 10:34 AM
Bobcat110alum wrote:expand_more
Amen x 2. Participation Trophy era needs to end. Disappointment is a part of life ... and one that only makes you stronger.
I agree. My point was never to say "All millennials aren't looking for a handout" (I immediately went back and edited my post to clarify that some do, but it's not just millennials--I made a blanket statement and it was wrong). I'm five years out and only recently started making good enough money to not go to bed wondering if I'm going to make it with all the student loan debt I owe. My parents helped where they could and let me stay at home a little longer than expected, but for the most part, it was all on me. I expected nothing, because I learned it wasn't going to be easy.

My point has been, what is the school doing to make these positions more appealing, because the money won't be there and the hours aren't going to be great. What are they doing to set themselves apart? I don't think the problem boils down to kids not wanting to work, I think it boils down to the position not being good enough to take over other options.
Your comment about student loan debt is an interesting. Because we've made it so easy to pile up debt without the consequences being fully understood by those taking it on (that includes parents), the economic waters have been muddied so that some coming out 1) blame someone else for their debt, 2) expect to make enough money to cover all of their expenses right away, or 3) claim that since they spent so much on college they're owed a big pay check.
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LynxRufus6
8/23/2017 10:47 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
It's a mixed bag as I'm sure it was for employers confronting each new generation of workers. Technology has made the changes - some good, others bad -more extreme this time around. It's damned hard to raise kids today - from social media to the dramatic rise of helicopter parenting, it is very difficult to avoid spoiling kids and/or encouraging a sense of entitlement. My bride and I had some horrendous arguments over "the right way" to handle certain issues. Our sons greatly resented many of our (my) decisions. But I'm happy to say that our boys became honorable, hardworking young men who have been very successful in the early stages of their careers. In contrast, we have friends who seemingly raised their kids in a bubble, protected from every disappointment, micro-managed through every decision. A good friend demanded that her sons call her after every class at OSU so she could help them prioritize their nighttime studying. Surprise, these and many other young people are now struggling to adapt to the Real World.

I try to avoid using the broad brush when discussing Millennials. There are some very attractive characteristics I wish were more prevalent in my own generation, and there are some we'll need to help them lose as they launch their careers. However, the one thing I can tell you about the negative characteristics is that these kids weren't born with them. If we're looking for fault, there's a mirror down the hall.

This post wins the day. Thank you, SBH.
I'm an older (lol) millennial, but being in classes with some kids now that are 4-5 years younger than I am is sometimes painful because of the sheer laziness and entitlement that some of these kids have is evident. I've worked two jobs throughout the summer and at one I hear about how everyone is struggling to pay rent and stay afloat along with their bills, at the other I hear people brag about not really needing the job, they just do it for the cash so they can enjoy the summers here in Athens. Given my background and "old school" upbringing, I have been essentially taking care of myself and remaining self-sustainable since the age of 16 or so. It really just depends on where the kids are coming from. Most of the people I'm surrounded by have parents with degrees and stable incomes, while my situation was quite the oppoosite.

I do worry about the amount of technology used today. The iPhone, social media frenzy "me" epidemic will surely play a huge role in how millennials raise their kids. Everyone thinks they're a movie star, and that their life is important enough to frequently show their pictures and thoughts with the world. Time will tell
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bshot44
8/23/2017 11:23 AM
Bobcat110alum wrote:expand_more
Amen x 2. Participation Trophy era needs to end. Disappointment is a part of life ... and one that only makes you stronger.
I agree. My point was never to say "All millennials aren't looking for a handout" (I immediately went back and edited my post to clarify that some do, but it's not just millennials--I made a blanket statement and it was wrong). I'm five years out and only recently started making good enough money to not go to bed wondering if I'm going to make it with all the student loan debt I owe. My parents helped where they could and let me stay at home a little longer than expected, but for the most part, it was all on me. I expected nothing, because I learned it wasn't going to be easy.

My point has been, what is the school doing to make these positions more appealing, because the money won't be there and the hours aren't going to be great. What are they doing to set themselves apart? I don't think the problem boils down to kids not wanting to work, I think it boils down to the position not being good enough to take over other options.
Good for you for "getting it". Don't worry about the student loans....keep chipping away. I sent my last check in this year .... I graduated in 1998. It was a great feeling, ha!

As far as the job .... it's just the job. Whether you're at Ohio University, Ohio State, Kansas or Duke. That job typically doesn't pay and the hours aren't good. That even goes for similar jobs at the pro level.

Now, you might get a little more money at O$U or another major school or in the NHL. But it's not like it pays $25k at Ohio and $125k at O$U.

The school doesn't necessarily need to make the job more appealing ... they just need to hire someone that understands the expectations, understands the possibilities and is ready to come in and bust their butt. That all comes thru the interview process. They have to know that the turnaround is probably going to be frequent. It's just the nature of that role.

But ultimately, it comes down to setting realistic expectations for that role. The inconsistent nature of what they've produced year after year is hard to take them serious. I know Evan Shaw and his team went far and beyond expectation ... which is why that product was as awesome as it was. And I don't have any expectation that we'll see that again quite honestly. But (from experience) I know there is content just sitting out there to gather.

Considering the media that covers them (Arkley, A-News & Post) daily ... if Ohio wants to market themselves to their current fans, fringe fans, and potential new fans it's on them to do it themselves.

Getting random game highlights here and there won't cut it.

These type of videos I'm talking about. These are great little short featurettes that give fans a glimpse into these guys. Not a ton of work involved in them. But we got them once in 2015 and never again.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3uCcmV1tUgEhePXb...

The "NFL Films-type" highlight recaps should be done for every game ... especially for the revenue sports like men's hoops and football (and probably even women's hoops). Sorry, I'm not being disrespectful to the non-revenue sports and I'm not saying they should be ignored. But everyone knows where the money is spent and where the majority of the marketing should be focused on. The cameras are there....but we rarely get to see the footage except for Russ/Rob's short recaps (which are great and should continue)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c3OIjKY98&list=PL0EE2D6...

We get a random Kenny Kaminski player profile (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c40Uz3wCgJs&index=8&list=... ) .... and then absolutely none for the rest of the mens' team. And the women's team has randomly three of them.

Just go to this page and look at all over the place these videos are.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0EE2D6DC95D2190C

The fact they don't produce wrap-up videos for a loss is laughable. It's almost as if they don't talk about it, it didn't happen. Silly.

If you don't watch this video and get chills ... you aren't a Bobcat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikmS1rufXc0&index=83&list...

But these types of videos are so few and far between. It's almost like they do them if they feel like it .... but if they don't, no big worry.

Should be an expectation for the job to turn quality content like this out on a regular, reliable basis. So hit and miss.

The opportunity is there to make a lot of these sports "cool" ... which only helps marketing, recruiting, etc. But when it's done randomly it really doesn't help.
Last Edited: 8/23/2017 11:29:32 AM by bshot44
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