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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Monroe?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
7/10/2017 9:41 AM
When we calculate the total of student fees, are we actually talking about the amount allocated to football or the total of all fees? Remember, the fees support the entire athletic department, which means several sports that bring in zero money. SEveral sports that can't just go to Tennesee for one game and get a $1 million buyout

If you eliminate student fees, I think football and basketball can find a way to survive. Where is the money going to come from to continue to support wrestling and women's track?
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bshot44
7/10/2017 10:13 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
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L.C.
7/10/2017 11:13 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
When we calculate the total of student fees, are we actually talking about the amount allocated to football or the total of all fees? Remember, the fees support the entire athletic department, which means several sports that bring in zero money. SEveral sports that can't just go to Tennesee for one game and get a $1 million buyout

If you eliminate student fees, I think football and basketball can find a way to survive. Where is the money going to come from to continue to support wrestling and women's track?

Title IX says you can't do that. If you are going to have football, you have to have a matching number of women's scholarships. Therefore the expenses for women's track, swimming, etc. should properly be considered a football expense because they minute you have a football team, you are committing to those additional expenses.

bshot44, those are interesting numbers. I wish I thought that all schools report numbers the same way. If you take them at face value, and take the football expenses divided by conference wins, to rank schools by what they got for the money, you get:
WMU $1.07m/win
Miami 1.27m
Ohio 1.51m
Toledo 1.55m
NIU 1.84m
EMU 1.84m
CMU 2.09m
BG 2.25m
Akron 2.49m
Kent 3.07m
Ball St 7.22m
Buffalo 7.54m
Last Edited: 7/10/2017 11:32:27 AM by L.C.
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 11:52 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.
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Alan Swank
7/10/2017 12:09 PM
Since 2005 we are 1 and 3 vs Toledo and 3 and 2 vs Northern.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
7/10/2017 12:24 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
When we calculate the total of student fees, are we actually talking about the amount allocated to football or the total of all fees? Remember, the fees support the entire athletic department, which means several sports that bring in zero money. SEveral sports that can't just go to Tennesee for one game and get a $1 million buyout

If you eliminate student fees, I think football and basketball can find a way to survive. Where is the money going to come from to continue to support wrestling and women's track?

Title IX says you can't do that. If you are going to have football, you have to have a matching number of women's scholarships. Therefore the expenses for women's track, swimming, etc. should properly be considered a football expense because they minute you have a football team, you are committing to those additional expenses.
Right. what I'm saying is that football is often the scapegoat when it comes to railing against student fees. We know that football costs the most to "produce", but the fees are what actually enable a school like OHIO to be Title IX compliant. To a lesser degree, the fees also support other campus organizations too. I believe that if student fees were eliminated, football and basketball could find a way to support themselves, but only themselves (yes, it would involve spending cuts for sure). Alabama can take their football revenue and support the entire department. I'm not saying this to disparage title ix or deify football, which is probably my third favorite sport at this point in my life. I want women to have scholarship opportunities that are close to or on par with men. If the fees go away, OHIO can charge students for tickets and raise the ticket prices on the public. And yes, they might have to schedule more road games with buyouts instead of return games. Is field hockey going to suddenly be able to charge admission to students and bring in program-sustaining revenue?

I just think that those who rant and rave against the activity fees are not considering all the possible consequences. I agree that this is not the ideal way to support an athletic department, but no one has offered a viable alternative.
Last Edited: 7/10/2017 12:41:03 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 12:37 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Since 2005 we are 1 and 3 vs Toledo and 3 and 2 vs Northern.
Seriously, why would we care about since 2005? What time frame reflects Ohio's trending?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
7/10/2017 12:39 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Since 2005 we are 1 and 3 vs Toledo and 3 and 2 vs Northern.
Seriously, why would we care about since 2005? What time frame reflects Ohio's trending?
I don't know, but I do know that beating Toledo for the first time in a generation does not represent a trend.
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C Money
7/10/2017 1:03 PM
For a thread titled "Monroe?", we have a severe shortage of self-quotation.
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ShoreCat
7/10/2017 1:20 PM
my favorite "Monroe's"

1. Marilyn Monroe-duh
2. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe
3. President James Monroe
4. Monroe, played by Jm. J. Bullock in the show Too Close for Comfort
5. Monroe Slavin, BA poster
6. Monroe Clark, played by C. Thomas Howell in the movie Side Out
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OUcats82
7/10/2017 1:49 PM
BayCat wrote:expand_more
my favorite "Monroe's"

1. Marilyn Monroe-duh
2. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe
3. President James Monroe
4. Monroe, played by Jm. J. Bullock in the show Too Close for Comfort
5. Monroe Slavin, BA poster
6. Monroe Clark, played by C. Thomas Howell in the movie Side Out
Do we have to be restricted to the exact spelling of Monroe or are similar names acceptable?

There were the two Munro girls in the Last of the Mohicans. I always thought the two sisters in the Daniel Day Lewis version were pretty hot. Their old man was kind of an arse who got his at the hands of the Hurons.
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bshot44
7/10/2017 1:57 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.

Yep... no question Ohio is right up there with NIU and Toledo when it comes to their football programs this decade

Let's review....since 2010

Toledo 61-28 (44-12 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-0 in MACC game
3-3 bowl record
Nationally ranked two different years (7 total weeks)
Five 9+ win seasons (*3 head coaches)

NIU 70-26 (49-7 in MAC)
3 MAC titles
3-3 in MACC game
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked three different years (15 total weeks)
5 (straight) 11+ win seasons (*3 different head coaches)

Ohio 56-36 (35-21 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-2 in MACC games
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked once (2 total weeks)
Two 9+ win seasons (*1 head coach)

Yep...I'd say Ohio is right there with those in terms of success.

How can you not argue a team that won 63% of their games in the mighty MAC East against the success of two teams that won 79% and 88% of their games in the much more difficult MAC West?

Oh...and I failed to mention that NIU only went to the Orange Bowl and had a Heisman finalist in one of those years.

Oh wait...Ohio had Tyler Tettleton and won the Independence Bowl vs. ULM one year!!!!

But go ahead and throw out that incredibly dumb "who has scoreboard" comment. Because those wins over NIU and Toledo the last couple years definitely outweighs everything these two teams have accomplished since 2010.

While you're at it...why don't you just start saying how much better of a program Ohio has compared to Penn State since the 'Cats "have scoreboard" on them too.

Goodness....you are so drunk on green kool-aid it's ridiculous.
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 2:00 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Since 2005 we are 1 and 3 vs Toledo and 3 and 2 vs Northern.
Seriously, why would we care about since 2005? What time frame reflects Ohio's trending?
I don't know, but I do know that beating Toledo for the first time in a generation does not represent a trend.
OK. Not a trend, fine. What then does it mean to beat Toledo for the "first time in a generation?" I know this board except the usual suspects, went nuts. I hope the players and coaches can be allowed some small sense of accomplishment. Pretty sure this was a representative Toledo team. As was NIU when the Bobcats beat them just before they represented the West in the MACC game. There will be highs and lows. The key is to achieve higher highs and to keep the lows trending higher as well. That is happening.
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 2:04 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.

Yep... no question Ohio is right up there with NIU and Toledo when it comes to their football programs this decade

Let's review....since 2010

Toledo 61-28 (44-12 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-0 in MACC game
3-3 bowl record
Nationally ranked two different years (7 total weeks)
Five 9+ win seasons (*3 head coaches)

NIU 70-26 (49-7 in MAC)
3 MAC titles
3-3 in MACC game
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked three different years (15 total weeks)
5 (straight) 11+ win seasons (*3 different head coaches)

Ohio 56-36 (35-21 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-2 in MACC games
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked once (2 total weeks)
Two 9+ win seasons (*1 head coach)

Yep...I'd say Ohio is right there with those in terms of success.

How can you not argue a team that won 63% of their games in the mighty MAC East against the success of two teams that won 79% and 88% of their games in the much more difficult MAC West?

Oh...and I failed to mention that NIU only went to the Orange Bowl and had a Heisman finalist in one of those years.

Oh wait...Ohio had Tyler Tettleton and won the Independence Bowl vs. ULM one year!!!!

But go ahead and throw out that incredibly dumb "who has scoreboard" comment. Because those wins over NIU and Toledo the last couple years definitely outweighs everything these two teams have accomplished since 2010.

While you're at it...why don't you just start saying how much better of a program Ohio has compared to Penn State since the 'Cats "have scoreboard" on them too.

Goodness....you are so drunk on green kool-aid it's ridiculous.

So why did you stop at Ohio? There are 12 MAC teams. Why not list the other nine?
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bshot44
7/10/2017 3:03 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.

Yep... no question Ohio is right up there with NIU and Toledo when it comes to their football programs this decade

Let's review....since 2010

Toledo 61-28 (44-12 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-0 in MACC game
3-3 bowl record
Nationally ranked two different years (7 total weeks)
Five 9+ win seasons (*3 head coaches)

NIU 70-26 (49-7 in MAC)
3 MAC titles
3-3 in MACC game
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked three different years (15 total weeks)
5 (straight) 11+ win seasons (*3 different head coaches)

Ohio 56-36 (35-21 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-2 in MACC games
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked once (2 total weeks)
Two 9+ win seasons (*1 head coach)

Yep...I'd say Ohio is right there with those in terms of success.

How can you not argue a team that won 63% of their games in the mighty MAC East against the success of two teams that won 79% and 88% of their games in the much more difficult MAC West?

Oh...and I failed to mention that NIU only went to the Orange Bowl and had a Heisman finalist in one of those years.

Oh wait...Ohio had Tyler Tettleton and won the Independence Bowl vs. ULM one year!!!!

But go ahead and throw out that incredibly dumb "who has scoreboard" comment. Because those wins over NIU and Toledo the last couple years definitely outweighs everything these two teams have accomplished since 2010.

While you're at it...why don't you just start saying how much better of a program Ohio has compared to Penn State since the 'Cats "have scoreboard" on them too.

Goodness....you are so drunk on green kool-aid it's ridiculous.

So why did you stop at Ohio? There are 12 MAC teams. Why not list the other nine?
Because you made the absurd comment inferring Ohio was on par with those two programs in terms of results because they spend nearly as much
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OhioCatFan
7/10/2017 3:13 PM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
my favorite "Monroe's"

1. Marilyn Monroe-duh
2. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe
3. President James Monroe
4. Monroe, played by Jm. J. Bullock in the show Too Close for Comfort
5. Monroe Slavin, BA poster
6. Monroe Clark, played by C. Thomas Howell in the movie Side Out
Do we have to be restricted to the exact spelling of Monroe or are similar names acceptable?

There were the two Munro girls in the Last of the Mohicans. I always thought the two sisters in the Daniel Day Lewis version were pretty hot. Their old man was kind of an arse who got his at the hands of the Hurons.
My paternal ancestors all come from Monroe County, Ohio! ;-)
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 3:50 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I'm going to have to disagree, on two points. My first point of disagreement is on whether we are "arguing". I don't think there is any arguing going on here. All we have is position statements. Some people expect maintenance of the status quo. Others expect the status quo but hope for better. Still others, myself included, expect continuing improvement.

By now we all recognize that we can't "win" an argument, and that we can't convince anyone to change their mind. The only thing that can change anyone's mind is the actual team performance. Where we are there is an intersection between the two perspectives as the team has risen from the low of 2014 back to winning the East again, but that won't last long. Either the team improves more from here, or it doesn't.

The second point of disagreement is that I don't think the discussion is the same as it has been in recent years. In this thread every post has been respectful, and no one has staked out the radical extreme position that there is nothing good at all about the program, and that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

I don't think most people are bothered by different opinions, so long as they are respectfully presented, and that's what has been lacking in recent years.

BA has those who follow Ohio Football and those who closely follow Ohio Football. Following 8, 10 and 9 win seasons the record slipped to 6-6. Some folks had Ohio "circling the bowl" at that point. Others saw better seasons ahead. Teams have highs and lows Recently NIU and Bowling Green fans experienced what that means.

There are still those who believe "the MAC stinks as a conference" so winning the MACC should be easy. Well given the 2012 MACC went Orange Bowling and the 2016 MACC went Cotton Bowling the MAC is no longer your "uncle's" MAC.

Sorry, but, when I read "With the amount of student fees that we've spent since 2005, an occasional championship is expected" I detect that old "Enormous State University" vibe. Is Ohio even in the top half of the MAC in Football expenditures?
This is six years old but according to this article, in 2011 we spent the most. I can't find 2016 numbers anywhere.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/29/how-does-th... /
Per the Hustle Belt link you provided earlier Ohio's reported expenses and subsidy % were both ninth of 12. ....?
You said football expenses. That "report" was total expenses. Like I said, I can't find that anywhere for 2016 for MAC schools in football.
This is a pretty good breakdown of expenses/revenue for each school. But it doesn't break it down to each sport

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances /

From this is looks we're in the top half of the MAC in both.

This also gives a pretty good breakdown of athletics spending...and by sport

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search (just search Ohio University). You can also do some fiddling and compare against other schools.

This is football spending .... where you'll see we are right at the top .... closer to Toledo ($300K) than we are to WMU (almost $500K)

Toledo $9,313,584
NIU $9,202,985
OHIO $9,037,911
WMU $8,577,674
Miami $7,613,028
Buffalo $7,539,610
Akron $7,473,209
EMU $7,365,948
Ball $7,220,032
BG $6,754,237
CMU $6,274,563
Kent $6,139,482

I think based on how much we spend on football, a MACC isn't out of the question. I'm sure Toledo fans probably feel the same way.

Bottom line is ... we spend more than most of the MAC and our results are middle of the road in the league. BG is certainly getting the most bang for their buck. Multiple MACC titles in recent years ....

For $9M, I would think we could be better than 7-5 with wins over powerhouses like Garnder-Webb and Austin Peay
Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.

Yep... no question Ohio is right up there with NIU and Toledo when it comes to their football programs this decade

Let's review....since 2010

Toledo 61-28 (44-12 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-0 in MACC game
3-3 bowl record
Nationally ranked two different years (7 total weeks)
Five 9+ win seasons (*3 head coaches)

NIU 70-26 (49-7 in MAC)
3 MAC titles
3-3 in MACC game
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked three different years (15 total weeks)
5 (straight) 11+ win seasons (*3 different head coaches)

Ohio 56-36 (35-21 in MAC)
0 MAC titles
0-2 in MACC games
2-4 bowl record
Nationally ranked once (2 total weeks)
Two 9+ win seasons (*1 head coach)

Yep...I'd say Ohio is right there with those in terms of success.

How can you not argue a team that won 63% of their games in the mighty MAC East against the success of two teams that won 79% and 88% of their games in the much more difficult MAC West?

Oh...and I failed to mention that NIU only went to the Orange Bowl and had a Heisman finalist in one of those years.

Oh wait...Ohio had Tyler Tettleton and won the Independence Bowl vs. ULM one year!!!!

But go ahead and throw out that incredibly dumb "who has scoreboard" comment. Because those wins over NIU and Toledo the last couple years definitely outweighs everything these two teams have accomplished since 2010.

While you're at it...why don't you just start saying how much better of a program Ohio has compared to Penn State since the 'Cats "have scoreboard" on them too.

Goodness....you are so drunk on green kool-aid it's ridiculous.

So why did you stop at Ohio? There are 12 MAC teams. Why not list the other nine?
Because you made the absurd comment inferring Ohio was on par with those two programs in terms of results because they spend nearly as much
I usually do not make any comments. I let results or links to articles in the media speak for themselves. In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
7/10/2017 3:57 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Since 2005 we are 1 and 3 vs Toledo and 3 and 2 vs Northern.
Seriously, why would we care about since 2005? What time frame reflects Ohio's trending?
I don't know, but I do know that beating Toledo for the first time in a generation does not represent a trend.
OK. Not a trend, fine. What then does it mean to beat Toledo for the "first time in a generation?" I know this board except the usual suspects, went nuts. I hope the players and coaches can be allowed some small sense of accomplishment. Pretty sure this was a representative Toledo team. As was NIU when the Bobcats beat them just before they represented the West in the MACC game. There will be highs and lows. The key is to achieve higher highs and to keep the lows trending higher as well. That is happening.
It was a big win. We needed it and were right to go nuts. nice to not have that monkey on our back anymore. But to say that it represents a trend is not accurate. I think we're on an upswing again as a program and that's good, but even our recent history against the top of the conference is suspect.
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bshot44
7/10/2017 4:15 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments. [/QUOTE]I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

[QUOTE=Bcat2]
In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
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L.C.
7/10/2017 4:58 PM
One way in which I don't think most people realize that Monroe's absence will affect the board is from a reverse psychology standpoint. Whenever Monroe posted his negativity, people tended to react "its not that bad", and look for good things. With him gone, people will instead react to good posts, and think "it's not that good", and look for bad things.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of people become significantly more negative in Monroe's absence.
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 5:05 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments.
I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
I posted "currently" and you change that to "since 2010." You sir are tiring.
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bshot44
7/10/2017 5:37 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments.
I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
I posted "currently" and you change that to "since 2010." You sir are tiring.

[/QUOTE]I'm tiring....

yep.

[QUOTE=Bcat2] Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 5:53 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments.
I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
I posted "currently" and you change that to "since 2010." You sir are tiring.
I'm tiring....

yep.

Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.
It's is nice to be "doing well vs them", "currently." Really it is. You are missing some good times.
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bshot44
7/10/2017 6:55 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments.
I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
I posted "currently" and you change that to "since 2010." You sir are tiring.
I'm tiring....

yep.

Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.
It's is nice to be "doing well vs them", "currently." Really it is. You are missing some good times.
Just doing circles...again.

Monroe would be proud of you for keeping the crazy train on the track.

When Ohio rips off 5 straight 11 win years or wins 9+ more than twice in a 7 yr span ... we can maybe start to compare them to UT & NIU.

As a previous poster said...wouldnt classify one win as a trend. They're nice wins...but for now just blips on radar. Can't puff your chest out about beating UT on the road and also lose at home to EMU and TxState.

Take off the green-tinted shades and look at the big picture.

To quote you...EMU & TxSt HAVE SCOREBOARD on OHIO
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Bcat2
7/10/2017 7:13 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I usually do not make any comments.
I'll just leave this right here. This made me chuckle.

In this case where you state it to be absurd to think Ohio on a par with NIU who Ohio beat in their 2015 West Co-Championship season. As NIU has followed that with a 5-7 2016 season, why is it absurd to think Ohio currently on a par with NIU? Then re: Toledo, last season head to head Ohio beat Toledo at their house. How absurd is it to think Ohio currently on a par with Toledo?
You really think Ohio is on par with NIU and Toledo as a football program since 2010 because of two wins?!?!?!

Are you that delusional (please, don't answer that....we all know the answer already)

Keep drinkin' that green kool-aid
I posted "currently" and you change that to "since 2010." You sir are tiring.
I'm tiring....

yep.

Spending at the top right up there with Toledo and NIU. Be nice to do well vs them, oh wait.
It's is nice to be "doing well vs them", "currently." Really it is. You are missing some good times.
Just doing circles...again.

Monroe would be proud of you for keeping the crazy train on the track.

When Ohio rips off 5 straight 11 win years or wins 9+ more than twice in a 7 yr span ... we can maybe start to compare them to UT & NIU.

As a previous poster said...wouldnt classify one win as a trend. They're nice wins...but for now just blips on radar. Can't puff your chest out about beating UT on the road and also lose at home to EMU and TxState.

Take off the green-tinted shades and look at the big picture.

To quote you...EMU & TxSt HAVE SCOREBOARD on OHIO
We have choices about how full the glass is. Pretty obvious you have your hand over your glass so anyone attempting to fill it can not. Your choice. Go on your own now. Bcat2 out.
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