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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Arkley reporting that Saul was not extended
Page: 3 of 6
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greencat
4/5/2018 8:09 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time.
Maybe. Or maybe when Urban Meyer gets a bazillion dollar extension, an Saul extension might not seem so bad financially.
Saul compared to Urban Meyer is like Nathan Springs is to LaMarcus Aldridge.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
4/5/2018 8:38 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time.
Maybe. Or maybe when Urban Meyer gets a bazillion dollar extension, an Saul extension might not seem so bad financially.
Saul compared to Urban Meyer is like Nathan Springs is to LaMarcus Aldridge.
Who the ***k is urban Meyer?
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Townie1977
4/5/2018 8:54 PM
FanInTheStands wrote:expand_more
I can't hold Saul accountable for the attendance or lack of game day enthusiasm. When the schedule has an abundance of weekday games and so few Saturday games what else would one expect? I understand ESPN dictates this to a certain degree. The AD needs to do everything within his power to make sure "rivalry games" (Akron, Miami, Kent, Marshall) and big name OOC games (if there are any) are always on Saturday when students are on campus.
Agree to some extent, but I will counter with the age old idea that winning puts butts in seats.
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Kevin Finnegan
4/5/2018 9:40 PM
Okay, this is maybe facetious, maybe not. I think a few weeks ago, GoCats mentioned a change in eligibility for 2018-2019. In that change, I thought he mentioned that if a coach was fired or moves, the player may then leave the university without consequence. So, in recruiting, you could mention that if a player has a successful year and the coach leaves, the player has the ability to stay or be a free agent. This may actually be an advantage in recruiting if a player has an eye for a bigger school down the road.
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lovebobcat
4/5/2018 10:49 PM
I like Saul. As a person, it's hard not to.

But as a coach? It's time to win big. Given the size of his paycheck, a five-year deal is plenty of time. Even with another slew of injuries, there can be no excuses anymore.

Recruit good players, develop them, and show you can overcome adversity. And put this program at the top of the league. It's put-up-or-shut-up time.
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allen
4/5/2018 10:50 PM
We are putting on the fight of our life to keep mediocrity in place, let’s fight to win. Let’s hope that Saul can pull it off or he has to go.
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Jeff McKinney
4/5/2018 11:38 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time.

Likely a lot of truth to this.
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Recovering Journalist
4/6/2018 8:16 AM
lovebobcat wrote:expand_more
I like Saul. As a person, it's hard not to.

But as a coach? It's time to win big. Given the size of his paycheck, a five-year deal is plenty of time. Even with another slew of injuries, there can be no excuses anymore.

Recruit good players, develop them, and show you can overcome adversity. And put this program at the top of the league. It's put-up-or-shut-up time.
This is where I've been for about a year with him. He's enormously likable but his record isn't. He deserves to finish out the contract but he's accomplished nothing to suggest he deserves more.
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Recovering Journalist
4/6/2018 8:18 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
There may also be other issues contributing to the lack of an extension. The current speech policy under consideration on campus is not popular with the students, the faculty or the press. The university administration is about to take a real beating if they stick to their guns on this. Combine that with across the board budget cuts and extending a $575K contract for what even non-basketball fans recognize as an average job performance and that may be just too much for the administration to take on at one time.

Likely a lot of truth to this.
I agree that this is hardly the climate for buying out the contract of a guy More likely than not this program will be hiring a coach in a year. I wonder what kind of budget Schaus will have to work with.
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greencat
4/6/2018 9:53 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I like Saul. As a person, it's hard not to.

But as a coach? It's time to win big. Given the size of his paycheck, a five-year deal is plenty of time. Even with another slew of injuries, there can be no excuses anymore.

Recruit good players, develop them, and show you can overcome adversity. And put this program at the top of the league. It's put-up-or-shut-up time.
This is where I've been for about a year with him. He's enormously likable but his record isn't. He deserves to finish out the contract but he's accomplished nothing to suggest he deserves more.

But-but-but-but (excuses here)... not to mention (more excuses here). And don't forget (even more excuses here).

"Recruiting is the lifeblood of what we do"
- various good coaches
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OU_Country
4/6/2018 9:58 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
I like Saul. As a person, it's hard not to.

But as a coach? It's time to win big. Given the size of his paycheck, a five-year deal is plenty of time. Even with another slew of injuries, there can be no excuses anymore.

Recruit good players, develop them, and show you can overcome adversity. And put this program at the top of the league. It's put-up-or-shut-up time.
This is where I've been for about a year with him. He's enormously likable but his record isn't. He deserves to finish out the contract but he's accomplished nothing to suggest he deserves more.

But-but-but-but (excuses here)... not to mention (more excuses here). And don't forget (even more excuses here).

"Recruiting is the lifeblood of what we do"
- various good coaches
But-but-but-but-but....I'll come back to this:

Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"?
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OhioCatFan
4/6/2018 11:15 AM

Apologist coming out of the woodwork, here. As someone else posted recently, Jay Wright did not have a stellar first few years at Villanova. I'm not sure if he had to cope with the injury situation that Saul has had to deal with or not. But, not considering that in your evaluation of Saul is IMHO ludicrous. ​

Table from: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jay-wright-1.html

Last Edited: 4/6/2018 11:59:11 AM by OhioCatFan
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UpSan Bobcat
4/6/2018 11:35 AM
I think both sides of the argument are valid. I don't think there's anybody not disappointed Ohio hasn't won more in the last four years but at the same time, we all know there's been some reason outside of the coach's control as to why that's been the case. Rightfully, Phillips' future at Ohio depends on this upcoming season. What happens with the now two available scholarships will be huge.

I hope the end result is Ohio brings in a really good player or two, stays healthy finally and wins the MAC title. I think that is possible. I hope the team isn't mediocre or worse again, but at this point, it's possible for that to happen too. I also hope it's not somewhere in between, something like 23-8 with a MAC semifinals appearance because then it's going to be debatable about what should be done with Phillips.
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rpbobcat
4/6/2018 11:54 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Apologist coming out of the woodwork, here. As someone else posted recently, Jay Wright did not have a stellar first few years at Villanova. I'm not sure if he had to cope with the injury situation that Saul has had to deal with or not. But, not considering that in your evaluation of Saul is IMHO ludicrous.
I look at Wright's record at Nova a little differently.

It seems to be the consensus that, for a variety of reasons (former coach's players,new staff,new system,etc.),the first year of a coach's tenure,good or bad shouldn't really count.

Years 2 and 3 weren't great.

But after that they did quite well,in a much tougher conference then the MAC.

Starting in year 4,they made the NCAA's every year but 1.

Its also apparent,looking at Nova's record,that the program was on a steady upward climb.

To date,I just haven't seen that with Saul.
Last Edited: 4/6/2018 11:57:10 AM by rpbobcat
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OU_Country
4/6/2018 12:00 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Apologist coming out of the woodwork, here. As someone else posted recently, Jay Wright did not have a stellar first few years at Villanova. I'm not sure if he had to cope with the injury situation that Saul has had to deal with or not. But, not considering that in your evaluation of Saul is IMHO ludicrous.
[/QUOTE]Same can be said for Coach K in his first three years. I'm not saying Saul is Coach K, or Jay Wright. But the point remains that year one, and to a greater extent, year four both had a ton of things that were out of his control. In the middle two years, the success was there, and 2016-17 it's safe to say that it would have been better without Tony missing most of the MAC season. How much, we'll never know.


[QUOTE=UpSan Bobcat] I think both sides of the argument are valid. I don't think there's anybody not disappointed Ohio hasn't won more in the last four years but at the same time, we all know there's been some reason outside of the coach's control as to why that's been the case. Rightfully, Phillips' future at Ohio depends on this upcoming season. What happens with the now two available scholarships will be huge.

I hope the end result is Ohio brings in a really good player or two, stays healthy finally and wins the MAC title. I think that is possible. I hope the team isn't mediocre or worse again, but at this point, it's possible for that to happen too. I also hope it's not somewhere in between, something like 23-8 with a MAC semifinals appearance because then it's going to be debatable about what should be done with Phillips.
I hope that no one is _____ enough on here to say he shouldn't be retained if they get to Friday in Cleveland and lose and go 23-8, 24-7, 22-9. Insert your own descriptor in the blank.

If it's less than that with no injury concerns, etc., then I can see the argument for not retaining this staff. With health, and one good contributing guard added to the team, I don't think having a somewhere in between season is likely.

I get the arguments, especially the ROI one on his salary. I get the frustrations with year one, and year four. I'm pretty optimistic if health isn't a major concern, that 2018-19 will be a good year.
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OhioCatFan
4/6/2018 12:01 PM
rpbobcat,

What do you think Saul's record would look like with a healthy MAC POY in 2016-17?
Last Edited: 4/6/2018 12:02:25 PM by OhioCatFan
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OUVan
4/6/2018 12:36 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
We are putting on the fight of our life to keep mediocrity in place, let’s fight to win. Let’s hope that Saul can pull it off or he has to go.
I'm sorry but this is just stupid. Who is fighting to keep mediocrity and how are they fighting for it?
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rpbobcat
4/6/2018 12:55 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
rpbobcat,

What do you think Saul's record would look like with a healthy MAC POY in 2016-17?
I think his record would have been better.

How much,I don't know.

I have a friend who is a Nova Alum and huge B.B. fan.

When Nova first hired Wright,he told me that, based on his record at Hofstra,he felt that,given a few years,Nova would be a national power.

I'm sorry,but I just don't get the feeling that Saul will be able to make O.U. a consistent contender for the MAC.

I hope I'm wrong.

Next season should tell what direction we're headed in.

I remember when we hired Saul,all the questions about whether he'd even be here to finish his contract,or have moved up the coaching ladder.
I don't think many people can say that,so far, he's lived up to expectations.
Last Edited: 4/6/2018 12:57:15 PM by rpbobcat
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OhioStunter
4/6/2018 2:37 PM
Saul is hard for me to evaluate. In his first year, he may have arguably had the most talented roster -- N'Dour, Tony Campbell, Bean, Stevie, Ryan Taylor, Treg, Laster. But because they weren't "his" guys for his system, it was not a good year. The next two years, they are seeded 2nd in the conference. And this past year was marred by an unexpected transfer of a star player, the season-long injury of another star player and various injuries to other players.

Apologist? No. Unsure on how to evaluate? Yes.
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bobcatsquared
4/6/2018 3:30 PM
We have Saul for one more year, minimum. OK, what do you think needs to change under Saul to right the ship? Something he has control over?

I'd start by looking at his assistants - does he have someone on his staff that can go into a star recruit's home and sell the Ohio basketball program? Someone more familiar with Ohio's coaching staff can answer this better than I can.

Some on here, including myself, keep referring to the early to mid 1980s Bobcats and the coaching staff during this era. Does Saul have a Franny Fraschilla or Billy Hahn on this staff?
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GoCats105
4/6/2018 4:14 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
We have Saul for one more year, minimum. OK, what do you think needs to change under Saul to right the ship? Something he has control over?

I'd start by looking at his assistants - does he have someone on his staff that can go into a star recruit's home and sell the Ohio basketball program? Someone more familiar with Ohio's coaching staff can answer this better than I can.

Some on here, including myself, keep referring to the early to mid 1980s Bobcats and the coaching staff during this era. Does Saul have a Franny Fraschilla or Billy Hahn on this staff?
I'm hoping the loss of Fuss and his connections to Central Ohio doesn't hurt the program.
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OU_Country
4/6/2018 4:48 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Saul is hard for me to evaluate. In his first year, he may have arguably had the most talented roster -- N'Dour, Tony Campbell, Bean, Stevie, Ryan Taylor, Treg, Laster. But because they weren't "his" guys for his system, it was not a good year. The next two years, they are seeded 2nd in the conference. And this past year was marred by an unexpected transfer of a star player, the season-long injury of another star player and various injuries to other players.

Apologist? No. Unsure on how to evaluate? Yes.
Part of that equation with that talent is where they were in their development. In other words, Treg, Laster, Tony weren't at their peak years in terms of their games in college. N'Dour was, and I'm not sure Stevie didn't regress as a Senior, and its hard to blame him with 3 coaches in 4 years. Other than a couple games, I was never high on Bean. He was a high volume shooter, not often as much of a maker, and he wasn't much of a defender.
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OU_Country
4/6/2018 4:50 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
We have Saul for one more year, minimum. OK, what do you think needs to change under Saul to right the ship? Something he has control over?

I'd start by looking at his assistants - does he have someone on his staff that can go into a star recruit's home and sell the Ohio basketball program? Someone more familiar with Ohio's coaching staff can answer this better than I can.

Some on here, including myself, keep referring to the early to mid 1980s Bobcats and the coaching staff during this era. Does Saul have a Franny Fraschilla or Billy Hahn on this staff?
This is a really, really good question that I would guess has to be part of the conversation between Saul & Schaus as things move forward.
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Maddog13
4/6/2018 6:44 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
We have Saul for one more year, minimum. OK, what do you think needs to change under Saul to right the ship? Something he has control over?

I'd start by looking at his assistants - does he have someone on his staff that can go into a star recruit's home and sell the Ohio basketball program? Someone more familiar with Ohio's coaching staff can answer this better than I can.

Some on here, including myself, keep referring to the early to mid 1980s Bobcats and the coaching staff during this era. Does Saul have a Franny Fraschilla or Billy Hahn on this staff?
This is a really, really good question that I would guess has to be part of the conversation between Saul & Schaus as things move forward.
Is off-season conditioning up to par? Is there something about the current practices that are contributing to injuries?

Are we adjusting our game plan to what we have or forcing the athletes to adjust to a system that does not promote their current strengths?

How did we lose Simmons and how can we avoid something like this in the future?

Are we recruiting the level of players needed to compete in the MAC? What does Ohio have to offer young athletes of today that other MAC schools don't have?

Are our assistance coaches making the grade, and, if not, what sort of skill sets are we lacking and thus looking for?

Finally, are we making the most of the information provided to us from our well honed network of college basketball experts on BobcatAttack.com?

PS: Oh, and one more thing, who is TOS and why is he being considered as a coach at so many programs across the country????

(Warning: It should be noted that the above was the product of a remote viewing exercise into what is being currently discussed between Schaus and Saul and may not be one hundred percent accurate when it comes to what is actually being said between the two of them.)
Last Edited: 4/6/2018 6:55:30 PM by Maddog13
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greencat
4/6/2018 7:39 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Do you mind sharing some of this "data available in the world", which if we're talking recruiting, that indicates "the trajectory is on a steep downhill slope"?
Glad to. This is comparing apples to apples, **MAC schools only. There is no reason to compare a MAC school to Kentucky or Duke in recruiting.

Where is the incoming class ranked on these nationally known services?

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeTea...

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2018/midam/basketball

https://www.scout.com/Season/2018-Basketball/TeamRankings...
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