NO

Or as the kind Indian on the phone answering my support questions in his thick accent says..."not a problem"

Kids transfer everywhere, for all kinds of reasons. Having one a year leave isn't really a big deal in my opinion.

When you’re simply a fan, with no specific experience inside any given profession like a basketball team/coach, you can only apply what you know to any circumstance in an attempt to make sense of it. In my world, where there’s lots of turnover, we like to categories those that leave into 3 general categories:
1) Our Fault: Good hire, we simply mismanaged the person/ situation.
2) Their Fault: Would still hire them again, have the tools to be successful, they just screwed it up.
3) Bad Hire From the Get-Go: Looking back, we hired poorly. Our fault for initial hire.

In the case of Dozier, I feel like I’d place him in category #3 (bad hire). Doomed from the outset. As for Butler, we as fans would need to have more data. I will say however, for as short and desperate as the bench was last year, SP still didn’t have the confidence to give him a ton of run. And I feel like that’s been a trend as no matter how many guys we have available, he plays/trusts very few when push comes to shove. But I wouldn’t have a clue, as a fan, which of the three categories Butler best fits in.

+1 Still feeling the breeze from this one!

Geez Leon do you think Saul is the only coach who has ever swung and missed on a recruit? Yea Dozier didn’t pan out as hoped. Add him to the list of thousands across the fruited plains, he’s not a virgin in this group. Lots and lots and lots of D1 programs have tons of recruits that have a hard time seeing the floor.

I’ve recently relocated to the heart of ACC country. Yea even the mighty Duke, UNC and NC State have highly, highly, highly touted recruits who didn’t quite be the end all be all and either see limited court time or transfer out when they don’t see a future from their seat on the bench. Happens to the best of them.

No....I don't think that Saul has been the only coach to whiff on recruits and I never said that. Again, words being inserted into my post. What part of "they all can't be T Kirk, DJ and Tone" did you not understand? The big difference being at Duke, UNC and NC State...when one doesn't pan out...they replace with another McDonald's All-American. At the Mid-Major level, a swing and a miss like EDoz hurts more. Remember the LaFerla twins and Andy Kanzig during the Hunter era?? That's just to name a few. Can't have those big of whiffs because Mid-Majors don't have the depth of Duke, UNC, NC State and other Power 5 schools. You give somebody a full ride at a MAC school, they better be at the very least "serviceable". All I know is with our lack of depth this year, we could have used another "serviceable" body. To be on full scholarship and not see the floor for this year's team says a ton.

So. Ellis D. was an epic "swing and a miss" - ? Just wait until the most recent recruiting class arrives. I won't name names to avoid beating a dead horse but...

I'm curious:

How many complete whiffs have we seen in Saul's time? Dozier is probably the only one.

Kendall Crute - verballed and signed with Jim Christian's staff, Saul got him to keep his commitment when hired, but he eventually stopped playing basketball altogether.

Ryan Taylor - not a whiff

Mike Laster - not a whiff

Khari Harley and Wadley Mompremier - they were both Christian recruits, and their bodies let them down. They weren't whiffs.

James Gollon - from the growth we saw this year, not a whiff

Jordan Dartis - nope

Gavin Block - nope

Doug Taylor - nope

Kenny Kaminski and Jaaron Simmons - nope

Jason Carter - nope

Rodney Culver - you could make the argument this was a whiff, but sometimes things just don't work out. Culver was an athletic kid from a great high school program (Pick Central). I think this one was probably more about playing time than the staff not evaluating the talent correctly. Those things happen.

Zach Butler - probably the same reasons as Rodney.

Teyvion Kirk - nope

Kevin Mickle - nope, and he's probably my favorite given the hate he got on this board when the staff signed him

AJ Gareri - haven't seen enough

Ben Vander Plas - haven't seen at all

Murrell, McMurray and Springs - go ahead and call these whiffs if you want but we haven't seen any of them in an Ohio uniform. All new incoming players have a learning curve. Some greater than others. You have to see if they can be developed.

_______

I will say this - if any of these new recruits can come in and put in the work like Mike Laster and Jimmy Gollon have, then Ohio will be fine. Those two guys should be the examples that each player looks at for motivation. Get in the gym, get in the weight room, get in the film room and bust ass. Playing time will come and wins will come.

Players transfer all the time. Sometimes the fit isn't there. Sometimes the playing time isn't. That's 2018 College Basketball folks. IT HAPPENS.

It's all relative. How many complete whiffs when compared to UB's roster or when compared to NIU's roster? Or how many whiffs when compared to a middle-of-the-road MAC team's roster? It's all relative. I guess it comes down to where you hoped/thought this program would be this far into a coach's tenure.

I think whiffs are the wrong measure. You apparently can have a lot of non-whiffs and finish well below .500 in the MAC. The measure should be how many All-MAC players you can bring into the program and retain. Because that's what it takes to contend for a MAC Championship. Saul has not had great luck to be sure. If Tony had not been injured last year I think Ohio had a shot to win the MAC Tourney. And if they do that, Saul would have a lot more capital with all of us.

Having said that, it's hard to say that Saul hasn't underperformed in recruiting. Of the 12 (using your list above) HS recruits he's brought in, not one has made an All-MAC 1st, 2nd or 3rd Team. That will not make you a MAC contender. Here's hoping the incoming class, a healthy Carter (could be an All-MAC player) a healthy Vander Plas (I hear good things) and Kirk's development (could be an All-MAC player) change that.

The other funny thing I hear is that MAC rosters (or any really) are normally full of 13 regular contributors. I ask again if any of these people have watched basketball ever at any level.

Cool. I'll sit here and see what happens and trust this staff knows more about recruiting D1 basketball players than I do.

The kid is going to be a project, no doubts there and I think most of the people on the recruiting board think that way too. CC-Cat has a really good analysis on him over on that thread that's a good read. Lays it out honestly that he's got a ton of work to do to get to the level Ohio needs him to be. But you can't teach his height, length and athleticism. It will be up to the staff to groom him and him to put the work in.

Something else to be mindful of: Springs hasn't been playing basketball very long from what I'm reading. Mostly just high school. The last player we had like that? Doug Taylor. Started playing late in the game and look where he is now. Turned out pretty well for a guy who started playing in 9th grade and missed an entire year to an ACL tear. If Springs can duplicate that? I think the staff has done their job well.