Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: The Fall of Saul
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bobcatsquared
1/30/2019 2:41 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
maybe Saul can get some of that luck going his way.
Sad state of the program when we're hoping to get lucky in March. And it's going to take a lot of luck for this team.
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Buck.Cat
1/30/2019 2:49 PM
Saul would need a trio that rivals Cooper, Basset and Freeman to even sniff wins in the MAC tourney.
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bobcatsquared
1/30/2019 2:57 PM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
If you guys have not noticed, Arkley tosses softballs and plays nice with Solich & Company as well. It would be nice to see someone in the Athens media (I'm laughing as I type that) actually hold coaches and the Athletic Department accountable.
Post Asst. Sports Editor Pete Nakos, in the Jan. 24 print edition, stated the following: "As of Jan. 14, no new contract for Phillips had been filed, per a public records request by The Post" and that there's no "known promise of a new contract."
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GoCats105
1/30/2019 3:08 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If we don't hire Jim Christian, whom the players hated, we wouldn't be in this position today.
Was hiring Holtmann away from Gardner-Webb ever a possibility at the time?
This is where I'm at. The players wanted to retain Dustin Ford, but I have to imagine we could have been able to buy out a contract at Gardner-Webb for Holtmann.
I think people here too frequently make the mistake of viewing career choices in a vacuum as if the coaches themselves don't have additional context and relationships that are informing their decisions.

Your thought process here is basically that Ohio is a better job than Gardner-Webb, and therefore Holtmann would have jumped at the opportunity to leave Gardner-Webb.

But that misses the point entirely. The Ohio job would have to be better than the Butler job, not the Gardner-Webb job. At that point Holtmann's exactly a year away from taking the Butler gig. He understands the trajectory of his career and the sorts of opportunities he's likely to get; hell, he probably even knows Brad Stevens well enough to know he's interested in an NBA job the Butler job could well be open soon, and likely has a good enough relationship with Butler's AD to know that in that scenario he'd be a top candidate.

The Ohio job doesn't just have to be better than a coach's current job. It has to the as good as or better than that coach's NEXT job, too. That's why I think Boals is a tough hire for OU, and why I think it's overly simplistic to say we could have bought Holtman out of Gardner-Webb.
That's a fair point, but it wasn't a guarantee that he would get the Butler job at the time Stevens left. Yeah they probably are close, but it's not like Stevens knew Boston would come calling at the time Ohio needed a new coach.

Anyway, I think you're right in Ohio needing to look for someone who isn't so hot in the coaching ranks that he's almost gone before he gets here, but we also don't want someone is so green that it will take forever to build the program back up.
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greencat
1/30/2019 5:01 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
What people don't realize is this pretty normal in the life of a midmajor team in NCAA Division I basketball. We are what we are.

Ohio didn't capitalize on the momentum it had from the Sweet 16 run with a couple of...not bad hires, but maybe not necessarily the right fit? So here we are. It happens. The real question is, how do we get back to that?
For a mid to stay good, it takes REALLY aggressive recruiting (not settling for a scrub or two here and there and hoping against hope he can eventually become good enough to be some sort of role player on the d-1 mid level).

You have to get veterans who were recruited over by schools in the SEC/ACC/etc

Larry Austin of Central Mich. for exapmle was recruited over at Xavier. He transferred to Vandy. Barely got off the bench at Vandy. Now as a grad xfer at CMU the guy is their leading scorer at 17ppg plus 6 boards & 6 assists per game. Only have him for one year? That buys you more time to go out a get a quality d-1 mid legit replacement for that position. Cam Justice de-committed from Tennessee, went to Vandy, Bryce Drew wouldn't play him, transferred to IUPUI. --> 19.5 ppg. <-- The dude was a former Mr. Basketball in Kentucky in high school. Other schools might have loved to get him but were out of schollies because they filled the roster with questionable scrubs. You should always hang on to one unfilled schollie for a surprise top notch transfer.

And the process of having the most of the best talented athletes EVERY SEASON without going backwards has to be constant. What happens when there is a pause in the talent level?

This season alone mids who used to be good:
Wichita State 8-11
Northern Iowa 7-12
Richmond 7-13
Green Bay 8-12
Iona 7-12
Florida Gulf Coast 6-14
UNC Wilmington 7-14
MTSU 3-16

While...
UNC Greensboro 19-3
ETSU 17-5
Northern Kentucky 18-4

How bad do you guys want to see the Bobcats winning the MAC, going to the big dance, packing the Convo with big loud crowds? College sports is dog eat dog and every man for himself. Nice guys get participation trophies and juice boxes. People willing to do what it takes (recruit over guys and send the scrubs off packing) get the big dance trips and become the mid-major underdog darlings talked about in every bracket pool in every office coast to coast. Do you guys want people in Dubuque and Peoria at the water cooler saying "how about those Ohio Bobcats!" \ or not?

The school has a decision to make pretty soon.
Last Edited: 1/30/2019 5:03:06 PM by greencat
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ytownbobcat
1/30/2019 5:09 PM
Maybe we could use a business axiom and say the Brand (Ohio University Basketball) is underperforming.
Measurable are academic performance, wins, attendance at home, student involvement, and recruiting.
This may be a healthier outlook for all of us and removes personalities and individuals from the discussion.
As long as the players are wearing our uniform and we have a respected coach (by most people) they deserve our support until the end of the season.
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FearLeon
1/30/2019 5:20 PM
I am curious as to where Saul lands next? Will another lower Division One school give him a chance next year or does he have to go assistant job at a P5 Conference school first?
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
1/30/2019 5:38 PM
[/QUOTE]And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.

[/QUOTE]It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Last Edited: 1/30/2019 5:44:12 PM by The Better Ohio Bobcat
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/30/2019 6:42 PM
The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:expand_more
[/QUOTE]And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.

[/QUOTE]It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
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Diamond Cat
1/30/2019 8:05 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
maybe Saul can get some of that luck going his way.
Sad state of the program when we're hoping to get lucky in March. And it's going to take a lot of luck for this team.
Add to that our 2018-2019 tag line.

Ohio Basketball: we can't shoot or make layups!

(You could add free throws to that)

I really do not recall a season (ever) where so many open shots were missed, clutch FT's were missed, layups were missed and TO's were so plentiful. Tough to watch at times but I'll still do it. I just will not stay tuned in if it becomes too painful.
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The Better Ohio Bobcat
1/30/2019 8:17 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.

[/QUOTE]It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now. [/QUOTE]Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
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Townie1977
1/30/2019 8:50 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.

[/QUOTE]It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now. [/QUOTE]Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.

The above quote is FALSE. I agree Christian was not liked, but he was in control, he was the leader. The mutiny began during Saul's first year when he could not manage the egos of Bean Willis and Stevie Taylor, let Ryan Taylor walk, and did not run the offense through a future NBA player in Nature Boy. I will never ever forget Saul trying to talk to Stevie and Stevie looking at his mother on the other side of the Convo because he was upset with Bean.

Saul's lack of ability to lead then was a precursor to our reality today. Leaders know they don't need to be liked and nice guys finish last.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/30/2019 8:51 PM
The better Ohio Bobcat wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now. [/QUOTE]Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
[/QUOTE]That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?
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Townie1977
1/30/2019 8:58 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
[/QUOTE]That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys. [/QUOTE]Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?

Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
Last Edited: 1/30/2019 8:59:26 PM by Townie1977
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/30/2019 9:06 PM
Townie1977 wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys. [/QUOTE]Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing? [/QUOTE]
Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.
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Townie1977
1/30/2019 9:12 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing? [/QUOTE]
Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
[/QUOTE]Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.
No nuance here. How about a direct statement. Saul lost Ryan Taylor because he did not have the guts to manage the ego of Bean Willis, the ego of Stevie Taylor, and the locker room in general. Saul is not a leader, he is a car salesman. It was not that long ago, but we both know narratives age romantically right?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
1/30/2019 9:30 PM
Townie1977 wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?

Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
[/QUOTE]Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.

[/QUOTE]No nuance here. How about a direct statement. Saul lost Ryan Taylor because he did not have the guts to manage the ego of Bean Willis, the ego of Stevie Taylor, and the locker room in general. Saul is not a leader, he is a car salesman. It was not that long ago, but we both know narratives age romantically right?
Some of you guys just make shit up as you go, don't you? If Ryan Taylor's issue was Stevie and Bean (who were both probably sick of coaching changes and maybe (and somewhat rightfully) had some me-first attitudes their last year, he certainly would have looked forward to the next year when they were gone. If you think you know everything going through a college player's head, then you could make a lot of money shrinking heads for a living. and if you think a coach's locker room persona is the same as what you see in the media, then I'll have some of what you're smoking (for instance, Bob Donewald was the nicest guy ever to the media and went on to become a great and personable color analyst. But if you don't think there's another side to his personality, offer him a pizza during a game he's losing badly).

Whatever just isn't working now for whatever reason, at least not consistently) and I agree that time is probably running out as much I want to see Saul turn in some sort of miracle in the last 10 games... but insulting someone as a person when it's not warranted is beneath this board. But especially when that person is a Bobcat and a great member of the community. Saul took another mid-major to an NCAA tournament. Twice. He knocked off a top program in a tournament. He's done what we all want to do and recently did. you have no actual clue whether he can coach, but there's a lot more evidence that he CAN coach than there is that he can't. Maybe it's just hard to admit that our program isn't the slam dunk we all think it should be.
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GoCats105
1/30/2019 9:54 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I am curious as to where Saul lands next? Will another lower Division One school give him a chance next year or does he have to go assistant job at a P5 Conference school first?
It's not like Saul cant coach. You dont win NCAA tournament games without knowing at least a little bit about the game. He will find a job somewhere in D1, but I doubt it's a step down to a non-head coach job. He'll win the interview like he did here.

I think what most of us have learned is that he just hasn't stepped up his recruiting enough here. Hes tried. We had Jaaron and Ryan Taylor. But missed on some other home run hitters and had to settle. And the offense wont work when you have to settle for pieces that don't fit.
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Gman
1/30/2019 10:08 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?

Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.

[/QUOTE]No nuance here. How about a direct statement. Saul lost Ryan Taylor because he did not have the guts to manage the ego of Bean Willis, the ego of Stevie Taylor, and the locker room in general. Saul is not a leader, he is a car salesman. It was not that long ago, but we both know narratives age romantically right? [/QUOTE]Some of you guys just make shit up as you go, don't you? If Ryan Taylor's issue was Stevie and Bean (who were both probably sick of coaching changes and maybe (and somewhat rightfully) had some me-first attitudes their last year, he certainly would have looked forward to the next year when they were gone. If you think you know everything going through a college player's head, then you could make a lot of money shrinking heads for a living. and if you think a coach's locker room persona is the same as what you see in the media, then I'll have some of what you're smoking (for instance, Bob Donewald was the nicest guy ever to the media and went on to become a great and personable color analyst. But if you don't think there's another side to his personality, offer him a pizza during a game he's losing badly).

Whatever just isn't working now for whatever reason, at least not consistently) and I agree that time is probably running out as much I want to see Saul turn in some sort of miracle in the last 10 games... but insulting someone as a person when it's not warranted is beneath this board. But especially when that person is a Bobcat and a great member of the community. Saul took another mid-major to an NCAA tournament. Twice. He knocked off a top program in a tournament. He's done what we all want to do and recently did. you have no actual clue whether he can coach, but there's a lot more evidence that he CAN coach than there is that he can't. Maybe it's just hard to admit that our program isn't the slam dunk we all think it should be.
Last 3 Coaches

O'Shea - won a MAC Tournament - NCAA Appearance
Groce - 2 MAC Tournaments wins - 3 NCAA Tourney wins
Christian - tied for best Record in MAC 14-2 Ohio made it to MAC Championship Game. he was here 2 yrs

Saul Phillips - 5 years and a Big Goose Egg !!!

Ohio Basketball program was starting to turn the corner and face it, Schaus just hired the wrong man for the job. Its been down hill for 5 years now. we all know it and Schaus knows it, that's why no extension after last year, hopefully Schaus will get a coach that can bring Ohio back to its winning ways something that we've all grown accustom to.
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OhioCatFan
1/30/2019 10:29 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
It is still all about March in the MAC. Maybe Ohio will get lucky and win some games in Cleveland in March. March was a good month for Groce, so maybe Saul can get some of that luck going his way.
Some games? He'll need to win all four to keep his job.
How do you know this? As I said in another recent thread, it would be nice to see some qualifiers . . . like "probably," "most likely," or even just a "IMHO." Otherwise you kind of sound like you have some divine authority behind your words. Perhaps you have Prophet status? ;-)
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GroverBall
1/30/2019 11:14 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?

Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.

[/QUOTE]No nuance here. How about a direct statement. Saul lost Ryan Taylor because he did not have the guts to manage the ego of Bean Willis, the ego of Stevie Taylor, and the locker room in general. Saul is not a leader, he is a car salesman. It was not that long ago, but we both know narratives age romantically right? [/QUOTE]Some of you guys just make shit up as you go, don't you? If Ryan Taylor's issue was Stevie and Bean (who were both probably sick of coaching changes and maybe (and somewhat rightfully) had some me-first attitudes their last year, he certainly would have looked forward to the next year when they were gone. If you think you know everything going through a college player's head, then you could make a lot of money shrinking heads for a living. and if you think a coach's locker room persona is the same as what you see in the media, then I'll have some of what you're smoking (for instance, Bob Donewald was the nicest guy ever to the media and went on to become a great and personable color analyst. But if you don't think there's another side to his personality, offer him a pizza during a game he's losing badly).

Whatever just isn't working now for whatever reason, at least not consistently) and I agree that time is probably running out as much I want to see Saul turn in some sort of miracle in the last 10 games... but insulting someone as a person when it's not warranted is beneath this board. But especially when that person is a Bobcat and a great member of the community. Saul took another mid-major to an NCAA tournament. Twice. He knocked off a top program in a tournament. He's done what we all want to do and recently did. you have no actual clue whether he can coach, but there's a lot more evidence that he CAN coach than there is that he can't. Maybe it's just hard to admit that our program isn't the slam dunk we all think it should be.
+1

The making sh#t up and personal attacks, because our program isn't where we want to be, is beyond tiring.
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FearLeon
1/31/2019 8:38 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
It is still all about March in the MAC. Maybe Ohio will get lucky and win some games in Cleveland in March. March was a good month for Groce, so maybe Saul can get some of that luck going his way.
Some games? He'll need to win all four to keep his job.
How do you know this? As I said in another recent thread, it would be nice to see some qualifiers . . . like "probably," "most likely," or even just a "IMHO." Otherwise you kind of sound like you have some divine authority behind your words. Perhaps you have Prophet status? ;-)
If you don't think Saul needs to win all four MAC Tournament games to keep his job, then you haven't been following Ohio basketball very closely these past 4+ years. I can't help you there. Check back here on Sunday, March 17th or Monday, March 18th.
Last Edited: 1/31/2019 8:40:32 AM by FearLeon
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/31/2019 8:42 AM
Gman wrote:expand_more
And, what if JC had stayed? It's not as if his last recruiting class here that he left for Saul was full of world beaters. A thought worth considering anyway.
It actually was full of world beaters and one is playing on Texas Tech right now.
Yeah and if Christian would have stayed one more year there wouldn't have been a team the following year. Would have been a full-on mutiny.
That’s Saul’s fault for not being able to keep those guys.
Tariq Owens is 34 years old, has transferred 15 times, and has reached his absolute ceiling by becoming a role player on a top 15 team. He's not exactly a program altering talent.

Who were these other world beaters we're so angry at Saul for losing?

Yeah...he lost Ryan Taylor, whatever happened to that chump?

Correct me, but I believe he is just the best recruit Saul has ever delivered to our campus. And correct me again, but Saul lost him because Saul couldn't control the egos of a couple of shoot-first point guards that were on their way out.
Players who are recruited by one coach often leave when another is hired. To pretend this is somehow unique to Saul because you're upset with how kids are currently playing basketball seems silly to me.

We went through 3 coaches in 3 years. Even the best run program's going to see player turnover during a stretch like that. You may be willing to attribute Ryan Taylor's leaving to some personality shortcoming you've noticed in Saul, but I suspect it's far more nuanced that the narrative you're building.
No nuance here. How about a direct statement. Saul lost Ryan Taylor because he did not have the guts to manage the ego of Bean Willis, the ego of Stevie Taylor, and the locker room in general. Saul is not a leader, he is a car salesman. It was not that long ago, but we both know narratives age romantically right? [/QUOTE]Some of you guys just make shit up as you go, don't you? If Ryan Taylor's issue was Stevie and Bean (who were both probably sick of coaching changes and maybe (and somewhat rightfully) had some me-first attitudes their last year, he certainly would have looked forward to the next year when they were gone. If you think you know everything going through a college player's head, then you could make a lot of money shrinking heads for a living. and if you think a coach's locker room persona is the same as what you see in the media, then I'll have some of what you're smoking (for instance, Bob Donewald was the nicest guy ever to the media and went on to become a great and personable color analyst. But if you don't think there's another side to his personality, offer him a pizza during a game he's losing badly).

Whatever just isn't working now for whatever reason, at least not consistently) and I agree that time is probably running out as much I want to see Saul turn in some sort of miracle in the last 10 games... but insulting someone as a person when it's not warranted is beneath this board. But especially when that person is a Bobcat and a great member of the community. Saul took another mid-major to an NCAA tournament. Twice. He knocked off a top program in a tournament. He's done what we all want to do and recently did. you have no actual clue whether he can coach, but there's a lot more evidence that he CAN coach than there is that he can't. Maybe it's just hard to admit that our program isn't the slam dunk we all think it should be.

[/QUOTE]Last 3 Coaches

O'Shea - won a MAC Tournament - NCAA Appearance
Groce - 2 MAC Tournaments wins - 3 NCAA Tourney wins
Christian - tied for best Record in MAC 14-2 Ohio made it to MAC Championship Game. he was here 2 yrs

Saul Phillips - 5 years and a Big Goose Egg !!!

Ohio Basketball program was starting to turn the corner and face it, Schaus just hired the wrong man for the job. Its been down hill for 5 years now. we all know it and Schaus knows it, that's why no extension after last year, hopefully Schaus will get a coach that can bring Ohio back to its winning ways something that we've all grown accustom to.
The program was starting to turn a corner? Or the program had some success, had two coaches raided by higher paying programs, and suffered from a lack of continuity.
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71 BOBCAT
1/31/2019 8:48 AM
I feel I must make a rather obvious statement in regards to some posts about Arkley and his soft ball questions to Frank and Saul. He does because he is a homer. Not a bad thing in a small town like Athens. He has been at the Messenger for a long time and obviously does not have much of a desire for a bigger market role.
I like Jason and I think he does a good job. He does add his opinion on players and coaches from time to time which I find insightful.




GO BOBCATS
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ExCat21
1/31/2019 9:50 AM
Chooooo weeeeeeeee! We stink in bball!!! #EndSaulBall
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