I wasn't suggesting Saul torpedo'd things intentionally. But the ifs, ands and buts mean nothing really. The program is where it is. Nothing can really change that right now. And whether it's fair or not, Saul is in change so he falls on that sword. Yes, things haven't gone his way ... and a bounce or two different and we might not be having these conversations. But things did happen ... and the program wasn't able to handle it. So this is where we're at. Whether that is 100% Saul's fault or not is really insignificant. Things are a mess and it's time to fix it before it gets any worse.

The parallel wasn't identical to UB in the sense there was a continuity from within the program. It was more of a continuity of successful MAC coaches. Groce had proven in his four years what he could do in the league ... like Hurley (despite his non-success in NCAAs). I thought transitioning from Groce to Christian would continue that MAC success and bring forth more NCAA bids over the course of the Christian era. It didn't last long enough for us to find out.

There is certainly something to the football angle. I honestly didn't pick up on that when I was compiling those thoughts.

In the same breath, I think Ohio has shown a financial commitment to both football and basketball that puts them at or towards the top of the MAC. I'm not sure if that will change with a new president. I guess we'll find out when they hire a new hoops coach. I think that will give us all a glimpse into the future of Ohio athletics. Schaus/Ohio will have to replace their football coach in the next few years as well. Will they continue to keep up this kind of financial commitment to those programs?

If they do, there is no reason why basketball cannot sustain a successful program that consistently earns MAC tourney byes and plays into the weekend each year in Cleveland. Akron found a way to do that with Dambrot ... and did it with a D1 football program (in name only, ha!)

Regardless ... I'm not suggesting Ohio can turn into a Top 25 hoops program. But I think, with the current financial backing in place, they can be a consistent top three MAC program with the right coach. I really, really thought Jim Christian was that guy based off his MAC track record. Saul obviously didn't get the job done. I think there's a guy out there ... Ohio just needs to find them.

One that comes to mind is San Diego State. In the last decade, 9 straight bowl games ... 7 NCAA bids during that time. 3 football league titles ... 5 basketball regular season titles. They've been pretty good at both.

Nevada hasn't been bad either ... 11 bowl games since 2005 and 11 basketball postseasons since then. Not a lot of league titles ... but still pretty good success.

Boise has 11 bowl games since 2008 ... and 7 basketball postseason (3 NCAAs)

But your point is taken ... it isn't easy at the G5 level to sustain success at both. But Ohio had it during the Solich & Groce/Christian era ... and I don't think it's unrealistic to think then can't get back to that.

I agree with those who think it's time for "Saul Ball" to haul on out of Athens. I didn't read through the 12 pages of this thread, and I'd be stunned if my preference's name hasn't been mentioned more than once as a replacement.

It seems to me that in a league with a very large number of its teams in Ohio, playing most of its games every year in Ohio, the next Bobcats coach must be able to recruit Ohio very well. Of course, you're probably not going to get the kids that are OSU, Cincinnati, or Xavier bound (although Groce did OK there - think Caris LaVert before he transferred to Michigan when Groce left), but you HAVE to win a good amount of that next tier of players from Ohio. I would guess the ease of parents to attend their sons' games does probably help in recruiting.

Saul hasn't been able to recruit Ohio nearly as well as I think he needed to (know that Jason Carter had other deep-rooted reasons to be attracted to OHIO other than just the coach). I don't see that dynamic ever improving.

There is really only one guy that comes to my mind as the coach OHIO should go hard after at the end of this season, and that is Jeff Boals.

His stints as an assistant at Akron and OSU mean he has the relationships with Ohio coaches to get those recruits to come to Athens, just like Groce did. Boals would be coming back to his home state and his alma mater, so maybe he'd want to stay a bit and try to build a legacy of sorts. He currently makes a little more that $250K a year, so OHIO could almost double his income.

Those are my thoughts on the situation. I welcome your critiques.

I read it as "he" being Boals. But then, reading and comprehension is an art and I am not too awfully artistic.

In my eyes, Matta's downfall started when he lost Groce. Groce was one indefagitable recruiter who could go into a ghetto or an affluent suburb and promise a parent he would get their kid what they needed and deliver. After he left they still landed Turner, Deibler, Mullins, Koufos, Buford and Thomas that Groce had worked on recruiting from the 04-07 summer seasons but they never restored the recruiting with his coaching replacements. The Cage, Posey, Oden, Conley, Cook line of players stopped when Groce left. In agreement with Boals having Ohio ties and coaching circles but do not think he helped restock the shelves much. They did have a good class with Sibert and the guys who came in with DeShaun Thomas but were unable to keep reloading. I am not sure Boals is the next hot coach for Ohio. The recruiting game is changing and connections now more than ever seem to be the key.

This makes the exact opposite point you think it makes.

It blows out of the water a point that a bunch of mostly currently unranked schools that play basketball to varying degrees of results have some sort of advantage in hoops by not being a football factory like places that have D-1 football stadiums of over 100,000 capacity. Tennessee had yet another losing season in football while their basketball team is in the top-5 today. Their decades long obsession with d-1 SEC football didn't prevent it. Having post players built like football players are why they are currently a basketball power. Having post players built like Olive Oyl won't get you far in today's D-1 hoops world.

quote: Harvard, Iona, Davidson, Belmont, Saint Joseph's, Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State, SIU, Saint Mary's all have one HUGE thing in common: They. Don't. Play. D1 Football. None of them.
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Kentucky, Duke, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Michigan State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Mississippi State, NC State, Iowa State, Houston, Indiana, Iowa...

All. Play. D-1 Football. All of them. Some of them have football stadiums with a capacity of over 100,000.

Yet they are all ranked today in D-1 basketball.

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What are you suggesting we do? Do we have to stomp around like a three year old having a tantrum? Saul can clearly be a good coach under the right circumstances because, well, he already was one. He hit the magic combination, whatever that is, at his previous job. He hasn't been successful here but he has represented the school well and I'm going to guess he will land on his feet just fine. I just don't get the ire you have for the man just because he hasn't met your expectations. I think it's interesting that the reasons he failed here IMO are very similar to the reason the man he replaced failed at Illinois. I'll be rooting for him at his next stop just like I root for all the coaches that we've had since 1978.

Good point on the MWC teams. I do think they're in a completely different financial world than the MAC, merely because they're mostly in metro areas where sponsor deals, Media/TV deals, etc probably allow for a lot more revenue to work with. But that's just off the cuff educated guessing. [/QUOTE]You're right about MWC and MAC. They are two totally different worlds. One of the reasons I thought San Diego St would beat Ohio in the bowl game. I think the MWC is definitely a step up vs. the MAC.

Hoops proof ... MWC has been a multi-bid league in NCAA tourney every year but twice since 2002. 65 NCAA games ... 21 wins. On the other hand, during that same time period the MAC has been a multi-bid league 0 times and has played only 25 games, winning 8.

And yes .... location probably plays a role. The MWC list of Reno, Las Vegas, Boise, San Diego, Albuquerque, Fresno and San Jose carries a little more clout than Akron, Oxford, Athens, Dekalb, Buffalo, Kalamazoo and Ypsilanti.

I go back to the 2009-10 thru 2012-13 era for Ohio football/basketball. Might be the best the school has seen the last 50 years if not ever.

Ohio hoops ... 2 NCAAs ... 3 NCAA wins ... CIT & NIT appearance ... two MAC tourney titles ... 1 MAC regular season title.

Ohio football ... 4 straight bowls (two wins) ... 2 MAC title games (missed a third thx to season-ending loss to Kent) ... nationally ranked once ... 36-18 overall record

Head coaches: Frank Solich & John Groce/Jim Christian (one-year)

That's why I think it can still happen at Ohio. It's finding the right coach that is willing to come here and stay. Solich has done that. Saul was supposed to do that ... it just didn't work. I think finding a guy willing to commit rather than use Ohio as a stepping stone is the better option. Ohio can be the best football/basketball program in the MAC. I really think that. It's not like we're BG who hasn't been to the NCAAs in 30+ years or is on their 4th football coach in 6 years.

[QUOTE=OU_Country]I'm certainly a little apprehensive about it, but at the end of it all, I'll still be in Peden in early September, and The Convo in early November.

. It could get a lot worse before it gets better. Or, I guess maybe it could get a lot better really quickly if the right hire is made to be able to retain enough current players/recruits so that there is still a roster of 11-12 decent players.

While I knew this change was inevitable 18 months ago when many did not want to listen, I also know that a quick fix is probably not going to happen. The talent on the current roster simply is not there and everyone knows it. The new coach is going to have to have some rope to get his pieces in place. Just like Saul was given rope.....five years of rope. And I'll say the same thing about the new coach as I've been preaching about Saul. No Ohio basketball coach should ever go five years without sniffing the MAC Championship game and NCAA Tournament. If you can't accomplish that in the first five years, you're gone. But folks we have a roster of multiple players who should be on D2 rosters. Unfortunately, this is a total rebuild for the next coach.