If firing Saul tomorrow gets you to stop posting the exact same thing in two threads, I'll pitch in towards his buyout.

LOL. Not only that, but it's the same thing on repeat thread after thread, week after week. Complete with fun hashtags!

I'll bet in a couple years he's complaining about the next coach, whoever it is, before the start of his third season because they didn't get an NCAA bid yet.

Yeah ... those expectations probably peaked in 2013 right after the Sweet 16 run. I thought Christian would be able to sustain that success and continue to build off it. We'll never know.

But Saul has come in and not only derailed that path ... he's torpedo'd it to the point that we can no longer even recognize it. Ohio basketball is light years worse off now than it was 7 years ago.

Do I think Ohio can restore themselves to what UB is now? Sure. Is the right guy in place? Absolutely not.

But the reason UB is there is because they built off what Bobby Hurley built (John Groce) and have continued to build with the next guy up, Nate Oates (Jim Christian).

Ohio missed that chance when Christian took a job back home for a ton of money.

That started the turbulence. Saul was unable to calm the airways and things have only gotten worse.

If Nate Oates departs ... chances are UB is going to slip back closer to the pack in the MAC.

I used SIU as an example earlier .... and it's obviously on the optimistic side. But they went Bruce Weber, Matt Painter (1 year) to Chris Lowery. All three won big there but things started to go south on Lowery and SIU's program has never been able to rebound.

It's tough at the mid-major level when you have a revolving door at coach. Buffalo is enjoying the kind of run many of us were expecting with Groce/Christian ... but we got shortchanged.

It's back to the drawing board. But I think hiring someone that is only planning on being here for 2-3 years is going to leave us right back here again in a few years. There has to be some sustainability if Ohio is going to become a real player in the mid-major world. A program like Ohio can only sustain so much turnover before you reach a breaking point.

If you look at some of the consistently strong mid-major programs over the years that have had sustained (realistic) success they've had coaches who came in and built something more than a flash in the pan.

Wichita, Butler and Gonzaga is not what Ohio should aspire to be. It's not realistic. They don't have the money to do that.

St. Mary's is obviously a step above ... but what Randy Bennett has done there is impressive. 19th year ... 6 NCAA appearances ... 3 wins. Not bad.

Ben Jacobson at Northern Iowa has been good. 13th year ... 4 NCAA appearances and 2 MVC regular season titles. They've also had a few years where they've been around 18-13. And they have four NCAA tourney wins and a Sweet 16 berth to remember.

Tommy Amaker at Harvard ... 12th year ... 4 NCAA tourneys ... 6 Ivy Titles. 2 NCAA wins.

Tim Cluess at Iona ... 9th year ... 5 NCAA tourneys ... 3 MAAC regular season titles

Bob McKillop at Davidson ... 30th year ... 9 NCAA tourneys ... 1 Elite Eight run ... 10+ regular season titles

Phil Martelli at St Joes ... 24th year ... 7 NCAA tourneys ... 7 NCAA wins ... 1 Elite Eight ... 4 regular season titles

Rick Byrd at Belmont ... 23rd year in D1 ... 7 NCAA tourneys ... around 10 regular season titles.

I know schools like St. Joe's, Davidson, St. Mary's all have a bigger budget than Ohio.

And I'm not suggesting Ohio can immediately jump to this level. I'm just using these schools to support my opinion that Ohio should go the route of hiring someone that is committed to building something that is more than a 2-3 year House of Cards.

All these schools have experienced some tough years ... some sub-.500 years ... but they've also bounced back to experience more high level success.

I don't think it's unrealistic for Ohio to find someone that can come into Athens and really build a program that wins a few regular season titles and makes the NCAA tournament more than once a decade. We found a football coach who was willing to hang around for 14+ years. You don't think we can do the same and find a basketball coach willing to do something similar?

As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.

Come on dude, OU basketball is more than Saul and the team. It's about pregaming at Jackie O's up the hill, a story I'm sure that the Saulcoholic will repeat to us all in a future thread.

As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.

As fans, why shouldn't we be upset with the product that is put on the court? Why shouldn't we be upset with the lack of success behind the $500k coach? Should we just accept mediocrity? College basketball is a business, whether you want to admit it or not, and right now we are the Sears of college basketball.

I would like to know what SaulBall is as well. I watched his North Dakota State team during their tourney run and I saw it as backdoor cuts with high-IQ guys who worked the ball high to low post with a bruiser inside, a point guard with handles and a few 6-7 to 6-9 shooters who could also rebound and post up. In Saul's years of coaching, we had Big Tone inside as a post player but he wasn't Saul's guy. Doug came in and while I love Doug's defensive game, he has not improved one bit offensively. We have Carter who has the ability yet when was the last time you saw our offense truly work to get him touches inside? Very little ball movement and when we do it's not TOWARDS the basket. We dont' go inside-out and instead we take too many 3's with guys who aren't 3-point shooters. I thought BVP would be more multi-dimensional but now he's just a spot-up shooter. Saul either doesn't develop his recruits or he's doing a poor job of recruiting to fit his style.

I also thought from seeing him at NDSU that he was fiery and excitable. Instead at OU we've gotten a car salesman who makes little jokes and uses his aww shucks Wisconsin accent to try to be clever, all while not taking any ownership or even looking like he motivates guys.

For what it's worth, wasn't #SaulBall a Marketing scheme drummed up by Ohio Athletics? And, at this point in the deal, does it even matter? I think most of us know what it's supposed to be, and it's not working out. Clearly.

Instead, some of us here are taking pot shots at a guy who is, contrary to some thoughts on here, trying to do his best and it simply didn't work out well at all. He'll move on after this year, and we'll start from scratch again. Why go any farther than that at this point? It's done.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised with message board norms - even here. Cheer 'em on the best you can, and look forward to next year and a clean slate.

First, I don't think he's truly torpedoed it. I think the expectation was higher than reality, and injuries followed by misses on recruiting and transfers derailed the whole thing. Imagine if you will, that Tony Campbell doesn't miss the second half of the year. Chances are strong this team ends up playing for and winning a MAC title. Imagine Jaaron makes a different decision and stays, while Jason Carter and Ben Vander Plas aren't hurt for a whole season. That changes the whole trajectory of where we are now, and might even change where we are now in terms of recruiting. And it surely changes the narrative of threads like this one. [/QUOTE]I wasn't suggesting Saul torpedo'd things intentionally. But the ifs, ands and buts mean nothing really. The program is where it is. Nothing can really change that right now. And whether it's fair or not, Saul is in change so he falls on that sword. Yes, things haven't gone his way ... and a bounce or two different and we might not be having these conversations. But things did happen ... and the program wasn't able to handle it. So this is where we're at. Whether that is 100% Saul's fault or not is really insignificant. Things are a mess and it's time to fix it before it gets any worse.

The parallel wasn't identical to UB in the sense there was a continuity from within the program. It was more of a continuity of successful MAC coaches. Groce had proven in his four years what he could do in the league ... like Hurley (despite his non-success in NCAAs). I thought transitioning from Groce to Christian would continue that MAC success and bring forth more NCAA bids over the course of the Christian era. It didn't last long enough for us to find out.

There is certainly something to the football angle. I honestly didn't pick up on that when I was compiling those thoughts.

In the same breath, I think Ohio has shown a financial commitment to both football and basketball that puts them at or towards the top of the MAC. I'm not sure if that will change with a new president. I guess we'll find out when they hire a new hoops coach. I think that will give us all a glimpse into the future of Ohio athletics. Schaus/Ohio will have to replace their football coach in the next few years as well. Will they continue to keep up this kind of financial commitment to those programs?

If they do, there is no reason why basketball cannot sustain a successful program that consistently earns MAC tourney byes and plays into the weekend each year in Cleveland. Akron found a way to do that with Dambrot ... and did it with a D1 football program (in name only, ha!)

Regardless ... I'm not suggesting Ohio can turn into a Top 25 hoops program. But I think, with the current financial backing in place, they can be a consistent top three MAC program with the right coach. I really, really thought Jim Christian was that guy based off his MAC track record. Saul obviously didn't get the job done. I think there's a guy out there ... Ohio just needs to find them.

[QUOTE=OU_Country]So again, I'd be curious to see how many C-USA, MAC, Mountain West, or Sun Belt schools that manage both? I'm betting the list is very, very small. And I think the D1 vs non-D1 football issue when comparing mid-major basketball programs has some bearing on the situations.