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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 29 Thread: Buffalo
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OhioCatFan
3/5/2019 11:14 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Great game, we came up a little short. We should go into the MAC tournament with some confidence.
I agree that we can go into the MAC tourney with some confidence, but only if we beat the Redchickens on Friday. I'll be there to do my part cheering them on. We need as many old farts (meaning another over 25) as possible to turn out because this is the beginning of spring break, and I expect that the student turn out will be very light. Go OHIO!
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Jeff McKinney
3/6/2019 1:03 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
BVP very one dimensional offensively.
He seems to hit that freshman wall after about 20 games, excluding his 24 point outburst. He needs to get better over the next three years with his conditioning and defense and consistency on offense.
Are you forgetting he put up 20 points a few days ago vs Akron, and that hes had several strong rebounding games?
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allen
3/6/2019 5:23 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
BVP very one dimensional offensively.
He seems to hit that freshman wall after about 20 games, excluding his 24 point outburst. He needs to get better over the next three years with his conditioning and defense and consistency on offense.
Are you forgetting he put up 20 points a few days ago vs Akron, and that hes had several strong rebounding games?
I said excluding 24 point game. He needs to continue to level up and he will be fine
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Ted Thompson
3/6/2019 7:55 AM

Looking at the boxscore, Buffalo shoots 44% from three (15-34) and 40% from two (10-25). Ohio shoots 60% from two (30-50) and 18% from three (3-17). Bobcats now 332nd in the country in 3-point shooting (30.6%).

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100%Cat
3/6/2019 8:21 AM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
Looking at the boxscore, Buffalo shoots 44% from three (15-34) and 40% from two (10-25). Ohio shoots 60% from two (30-50) and 18% from three (3-17). Bobcats now 332nd in the country in 3-point shooting (30.6%).
And that being said, that performance last night beats (arguably) every other team in this conference. With that poor 3 point shooting.

Great effort, great turnaround considering this is the team that nearly beat us by 50 a few weeks ago. Bring that effort and intensity and I don't think Fiami stands a chance on Friday. This team is Jekkyl and Hyde, though. Who knows what we'll get. A couple of made free throws, maybe a call or two goes our way, and that would have been a win against a top 20 team last night.
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OUcats82
3/6/2019 9:00 AM
A win over Miami would be a nice way to end an otherwise disappointing season!

The thought of going 0-3 against them head to head in the big two men's sports this year is depressing.
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Bobcat1998
3/6/2019 9:08 AM
Nice win. I can eat crow and this crow actually tastes good. I don't think it should save Saul unless we make the NCAA Tournament, but still feels good to listen to an entire game and not want to turn it off. For much of the middle of the season I thought each game of turning it off when we would be down by 8 or more because there was no chance of us coming back.

As for Beefs, they are impressive but if Oats doesn't ride his gravy train after this year, he will lose his window. He's a great recruiter but next year you take away Massinburg, McRae, Harris, Caruthers and Perkins -- that's a recipe for going back to the pack. Graves and Jordan are very good and Segu looks like a solid freshman but they have relied on Massinburg and Perkins for four years and Harris the last 2. Heck, if one of Harris or Massinburg stays cold last night we win.
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bn9
3/6/2019 9:59 AM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
Nice win. I can eat crow and this crow actually tastes good. I don't think it should save Saul unless we make the NCAA Tournament, but still feels good to listen to an entire game and not want to turn it off. For much of the middle of the season I thought each game of turning it off when we would be down by 8 or more because there was no chance of us coming back.

As for Beefs, they are impressive but if Oats doesn't ride his gravy train after this year, he will lose his window. He's a great recruiter but next year you take away Massinburg, McRae, Harris, Caruthers and Perkins -- that's a recipe for going back to the pack. Graves and Jordan are very good and Segu looks like a solid freshman but they have relied on Massinburg and Perkins for four years and Harris the last 2. Heck, if one of Harris or Massinburg stays cold last night we win.
I admit that I like Saul a lot more than most of you and I will admit that this last stretch will not save his job, but we made our run last night with three Sophomores and two Freshmen on the floor against a top 20 team laden with Seniors. I think my biggest disappointment of the Saul
era will be that some of these kids will transfer with the change in coaches and we won’t get to see this group in two years.
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longtiimelurker
3/6/2019 10:06 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
Great game, we came up a little short. We should go into the MAC tournament with some confidence.
I'd rather beat them in Cleveland.

I repeat.
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100%Cat
3/6/2019 10:08 AM
bn9 wrote:expand_more
Nice win. I can eat crow and this crow actually tastes good. I don't think it should save Saul unless we make the NCAA Tournament, but still feels good to listen to an entire game and not want to turn it off. For much of the middle of the season I thought each game of turning it off when we would be down by 8 or more because there was no chance of us coming back.

As for Beefs, they are impressive but if Oats doesn't ride his gravy train after this year, he will lose his window. He's a great recruiter but next year you take away Massinburg, McRae, Harris, Caruthers and Perkins -- that's a recipe for going back to the pack. Graves and Jordan are very good and Segu looks like a solid freshman but they have relied on Massinburg and Perkins for four years and Harris the last 2. Heck, if one of Harris or Massinburg stays cold last night we win.
I admit that I like Saul a lot more than most of you and I will admit that this last stretch will not save his job, but we made our run last night with three Sophomores and two Freshmen on the floor against a top 20 team laden with Seniors. I think my biggest disappointment of the Saul
era will be that some of these kids will transfer with the change in coaches and we won’t get to see this group in two years.
I know he has some deficiencies, but I really hope Preston stays. He shows some potential. I really don't think BVP or Carter would leave just because they already have sat a year...unless they drop down a level and don't have to sit out via transfer. If TK leaves, he leaves. He feels most likely to leave. If non-contributors like Springs, McMurray, and James leave, so be it. I don't personally think the bulk of the experienced talent would leave, but I could be wrong.
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bobcatsquared
3/6/2019 10:11 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I know he has some deficiencies, but I really hope Preston stays. He shows some potential. I really don't think BVP or Carter would leave just because they already have sat a year...unless they drop down a level and don't have to sit out via transfer. If TK leaves, he leaves. He feels most likely to leave. If non-contributors like Springs, McMurray, and James leave, so be it. I don't personally think the bulk of the experienced talent would leave, but I could be wrong.
Agree. Throw in Murrell and Dartis as unlikely to leave.
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OhioCatFan
3/6/2019 10:18 AM
bn9 wrote:expand_more
I admit that I like Saul a lot more than most of you and I will admit that this last stretch will not save his job, but we made our run last night with three Sophomores and two Freshmen on the floor against a top 20 team laden with Seniors. I think my biggest disappointment of the Saul
era will be that some of these kids will transfer with the change in coaches and we won’t get to see this group in two years.
So, why must he be fired? If Tony doesn't go down two years ago, we probably have a MAC Championship under Saul. You can't just not consider injuries. Also, Saul may have not done a stellar job at recruiting but some of his best guys are pretty good, and this team is overall quite young, as you point out. He's had a lot of OJT, and is probably a better coach now than when we hired him. Unfortunately, unless we get to the MAC Championship game, I suspect he will be fired, but I don't think it's the right move.

I'm not real good at reading what's on JS's mind, but from a few very brief encounters, and a little insight from a friend of mine who has had greater direct contact with the AD, it looks like JS has already made up his mind and likely already knows who he is going after. If that is true, I suspect it will turn out to a mistake in the long run, unless JS is bringing in some Thad Matta type.
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SBH
3/6/2019 10:35 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
BVP very one dimensional offensively.
He seems to hit that freshman wall after about 20 games, excluding his 24 point outburst. He needs to get better over the next three years with his conditioning and defense and consistency on offense.
Are you forgetting he put up 20 points a few days ago vs Akron, and that hes had several strong rebounding games?
I'm not forgetting that at all - he's great when the 3 is falling but has little/no mid-range game and even struggles from short distances.

Yes, he rebounds, but I'm talking offensive limitations.
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Recovering Journalist
3/6/2019 10:38 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
So, why must he be fired?
First, he's not being fired. His contract is expiring along with his time in Athens. The difference is important because firing a coach these days is usually pretty damn expensive.

Second, if you haven't figured out why his contract isn't being renewed after five years that have produced a losing conference record and dwindling interest in the program, nothing will convince you that it was the right decision. But the decision has already been made, so you might as well let it go.

It's usually a perfunctory line, but I truly wish him well in his future endeavors. He's a great human being who did not get the job done here, and we'll all be moving on to what's next very soon.
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OhioCatFan
3/6/2019 10:54 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
So, why must he be fired?
First, he's not being fired. His contract is expiring along with his time in Athens. The difference is important because firing a coach these days is usually pretty damn expensive.

Second, if you haven't figured out why his contract isn't being renewed after five years that have produced a losing conference record and dwindling interest in the program, nothing will convince you that it was the right decision. But the decision has already been made, so you might as well let it go.

It's usually a perfunctory line, but I truly wish him well in his future endeavors. He's a great human being who did not get the job done here, and we'll all be moving on to what's next very soon.
I'm not much into the bureaucratic distinction between "non-renewal and firing." I worked for over thirty years on a year-to-year contract. If at any time they had decided not to renew my contract for the next year, everyone would have concluded that I was "fired." The bureaucracy would have said I was "not renewed." Technically, the bureaucracy would have been right, but it's a distinction without much real meaning.

What's next, might not be better, that's a real unknown. I'm old enough to remember thinking that PaPaL would be an improvement on Cleve. I just sense that might be what we are in store for if we don't stick with Saul. I hope I'm completely wrong!
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bobcatsquared
3/6/2019 10:55 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Second, if you haven't figured out why his contract isn't being renewed after five years that have produced a losing conference record and dwindling interest in the program,
"dwindling interest in the program"

I was thinking about this last night while watching a game featuring a top 20 program visiting the Convo. This would have drawn a near-capacity crowd in recent times. Looked far from that on TV last night. Is this where college hoops is in 2019 or this a sign of where our program is under Saul? Or a combination?

Speaking of the crowd in the Convo, I'm of the belief that the 110 has emerged as the best cheering section in the arena since the demise of the Ozone. However, the "hey ref, eat it" chant has grown old and sophomoric, IMO.

Have at it.
Last Edited: 3/6/2019 10:59:27 AM by bobcatsquared
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longtiimelurker
3/6/2019 10:58 AM
Awesome picture.

Ohiacatfan in the corner, fingers in ears saying LALALALALALALALA
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GoCats105
3/6/2019 10:59 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I was okay with all fouling under a minute. Down a couple scores, you want to extend the game as long as possible and take your chances on missed free throws.
The problem wasn’t the strategy of fouling, but who they were fouling. You don’t foul their best free throw shooter over and over and over and over and over again.
I think I saw Gavin and Saul share a look like it wasn't the ideal thing to be doing, but at that point they wanted to have more time on the clock and hope Massiburg miss...which he did, but it was too late.

Once again our own free throws down the stretch killed us. Make a couple more of those and the fouling situation is a bit different.
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Recovering Journalist
3/6/2019 11:02 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
What's next, might not be better, that's a real unknown. I'm old enough to remember thinking that PaPaL would be an improvement on Cleve. I just sense that might be what we are in store for if we don't stick with Saul. I hope I'm completely wrong!
This kind of argument is how organizations come up with excuses to avoid necessary change. Those organizations generally die.
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shabamon
3/6/2019 11:03 AM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
I was okay with all fouling under a minute. Down a couple scores, you want to extend the game as long as possible and take your chances on missed free throws.
The problem wasn’t the strategy of fouling, but who they were fouling. You don’t foul their best free throw shooter over and over and over and over and over again.
I think I saw Gavin and Saul share a look like it wasn't the ideal thing to be doing, but at that point they wanted to have more time on the clock and hope Massiburg miss...which he did, but it was too late.

Once again our own free throws down the stretch killed us. Make a couple more of those and the fouling situation is a bit different.
You have to foul the guy with the ball. Otherwise you risk an intentional foul call. Maybe we could have done a better job denying Massinburg.
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OhioCatFan
3/6/2019 11:08 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
What's next, might not be better, that's a real unknown. I'm old enough to remember thinking that PaPaL would be an improvement on Cleve. I just sense that might be what we are in store for if we don't stick with Saul. I hope I'm completely wrong!
This kind of argument is how organizations come up with excuses to avoid necessary change. Those organizations generally die.
Well, maybe a better analogy here was firing Brian Burke, who had a mediocre record, but still had some prospect for doing better in future years. We replaced him with Cleve, which set in motion more than a decade of completely awful OHIO football. OHIO football was "dead" for more than a decade. So, you can see this argument cuts both ways.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
3/6/2019 11:12 AM
Last night was a hell of a lotta fun, except for the final. It was an acceptable loss to a really good team, but again, when combined with the horrible losses just adds to the really high number in the wrong column. A couple what-ifs from last night:

What if we don't miss our last few FTs?
What if Buffalo only hits 9 3s in the first half?
What if we hit just one or two more?

The fact that we've learned to play within our lousy outside shooting is a pretty good testament to this team, and also, I like having both Preston and TK on the floor. I think they help each other and are learning to play off each other. Again, that's sophomore and Freshman. Carter, Soph, coming off injury. BVP, Freshman coming off injury. . TK doesn't have to do as much and is turning it over less (Preston seemed to be the one pressing a bit last night, tough first half after three brilliant games). Murrell, freshman, is coming on and clearly has talent. big man that can handle the ball and shoot? Huge upside that I hope to see him realize in a Bobcat uniform.
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doubledribble
3/6/2019 11:52 AM
Agreed that you don't foul their best free throw shooter over and over and over, but what do you do if the team you are playing keeps the ball in that guys hands, forcing you to foul him and take your chances.??? You watched an experienced All-MAC guard get open, then keep the ball on the dribble, stay away from any traps, and force you to foul him. That scenario brought back some flashbacks.
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Pataskala
3/6/2019 11:58 AM
They outscored us by 36 from outside the arc. We outscored them by 40 from inside it. The difference was in FT shooting. We hit a solid 71% (10-14) but they shot seven more FTs and hit them all (17-21, 81%). We missed a couple front ends of 1-and-1s that hurt. Make those, and maybe the and-1s, and we don't have to foul so much at the end.

What was really good to see was the hustle on loose-ball rebounds, especially on offensive rebounds. We outhustled Buffalo four or five times. It's the first time all season I can remember seeing the team beat the opponent on those.

I'm probably going to jinx things here, but this team has the potential to make a run in the MAC tourney. They can beat Fiami Friday, and whoever we play Monday (at the moment,EMU, but it could be CMU or Akron depending on how things pan out this week). After that would be BG.
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Jeff McKinney
3/6/2019 12:31 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
BVP very one dimensional offensively.
He seems to hit that freshman wall after about 20 games, excluding his 24 point outburst. He needs to get better over the next three years with his conditioning and defense and consistency on offense.
Are you forgetting he put up 20 points a few days ago vs Akron, and that hes had several strong rebounding games?
I said excluding 24 point game. He needs to continue to level up and he will be fine

He had 24 at CMU and 20 vs Akron. Within the space of a few games.
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