Bobcat Attack - Ohio Basketball - Official Game 11 Thread: Purdue

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Topic: Official Game 11 Thread: Purdue

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OU_Country

12/21/2018 8:53 PM

SBH wrote:expand_more

Well, you're right. Just four of his five teams.

We've been ranked 12th, 2nd, 11th, 12th and 10th (so far) in team defense among MAC teams.

Seems about right. The numbers I was recalling for the one year were national numbers. But I don't remember the exact rankings. Either way, I get your point.

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giacomo

12/22/2018 7:06 AM

They shoot lights out and obviously have better talent. If we play better we lose by 15. Good experience for our guys to see what the big time is all about. We should play at least three of those, maybe four, each year. We may win a few.

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Diamond Cat

12/22/2018 9:37 AM

Maddog13 wrote:expand_more

cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more

My optimistic nature was hoping that Purdue was a better team than the one I watched. Unfortunately, the Big Ten post game crew seemed to indicate that the Boilermakers should finish between 8-10th in the conference. They were thinking that Purdue might be a NCAA bubble tournament team. With a 28 point loss, I am glad we didn't play an upper echelon team. Thankfully toward the end of the broadcast, Andy Katz made mention that it wasn't all that long ago that Power Conference teams had some trepidation in playing us.

Yes, indeed, the Ohio Bobcats used to be quite a dangerous team to play and could beat anyone on any given night. No perceived fear of that now. Now that Ohio is becoming a Football school; perhaps, Saul is helping us transition successfully in basketball to either Division II or Division III. How brilliant, if true. The money that used to be spent on Basketball can now be funneled fully to the football program. Maybe, in fact, the future of Ohio basketball is to become a club sport only. Wow! I wish I had a sports management degree, so that I could understand the inner-workings of running Ohio Athletics.

This.

We all of the sudden are supposed to be content not being able to put 7 kids on a court for our program? Did we forget we expect a pretty good team EVERY year?

I didn't expect us to win at Purdue but I never expect getting blown off the court by ~30.

Man. We have fallen and can't get up.

BTW - liked hearing Andy Katz. He does his homework. I quit watching so I don't know what he mentioned after we stopped playing with 10 minutes to go.

Last Edited: 12/22/2018 9:39:34 AM by Diamond Cat

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bshot44

12/22/2018 10:48 AM

Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more

The league schedule begins soon and the key is to win all or most of the games in the Convo. If Ohio can accomplish that and get BG, NI and a few others on the road then they should get 20 wins. Hopefully they will get hot in March and play well in Cleveland.

I think Ohio's biggest hurdle will be play on the road. They've been awful in all games away from the Convo. Two terrible looking losses in Jamaica… blow out at Purdue … and two late game meltdowns at Xavier and Detroit, barely winning at Detroit.

Even if they go 9 - 0 at home, they'd have to go 3 - 6 on the road in the MAC to get to 20 wins. I don't see either of those being realistic. I thought they'd be much better away from home after that Xavier game, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

They really struggle away from Athens

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D.A.

12/22/2018 11:05 AM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more

Purdue was ridiculous last night. Sure we were slow to the perimeter on defense a few times, but my God were they shooting...it seemed like half of their makes didn't even touch the net. I think they would've beaten just about anyone last night, and I think they'll be good in the Big Ten. Carter was off tonight, did not have his normal touch around the rim...I'm not concerned.

The one thing I will complain about is TK still having constant reckless drives. I appreciate he can make some impressive finishes but not before he takes a couple total bonehead impossible shots. He isn't facing overmatched high schoolers anymore, he can't just barrel in and assume he will figure something out. He still desperately needs to increase his vision for his teammates. 0 assists from our point guard last night. Zero.

TK, simply put, isn't a point guard. In my mind, typically, point guards involve teammates, are better than average defenders, have at least average court vision, and they lead their team. He's lucky if he has two of those on a given night. ALL of his strengths are that of a 2, and a guy who is tailor made to be the 6th-7th guy off the bench. I love his strengths, but I don't think they outweigh his flaws or weaknesses based on how he's deployed by the coaches.

So I'm curious, what would your next three month's solution for PG would be? And do you see a true PG solution on this squad, because there is a lot of BB left to be played.

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OU_Country

12/22/2018 1:41 PM

I'd take the ball out of his hands a little bit, and get Preston and Block more involved as distributors. The thing is, it's not going to happen. The coaches seem to have their wagon hitched to TK.

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Buck.Cat

12/22/2018 4:37 PM

I’m surprised more people have not brought up how poor and overmatched the consensus (according to this board) MAC Player of the Year was in this game.

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Chicken George

12/22/2018 6:00 PM

Diamond Cat wrote:expand_more

[QUOTE=Maddog13] [QUOTE=cbus cat fan] My optimistic nature

BTW - liked hearing Andy Katz. He does his homework. I quit watching so I don't know what he mentioned after we stopped playing with 10 minutes to go.

Speaking of Andy Katz doing his homework. I've watched many press conferences where a coach refuses to talk about injured players, players under suspension, or players that have transferred. Their responses to those types of pre/post games questions from the media are always something like, "we only talk about those playing, on our roster and we don't make excuses. We play with who we have."

On the other hand, I've yet to watch a telecast where the announcers haven't been cued in regarding every injury, transfer or other excuse. All warranted and legit issues, but we not only don't refuse to discuss them, we're sure to tell every announcers doing our games. It was as if we have a sheet we hand out listing these items and Andy Katz did a nice job of reading them off on cue.

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Andrew Ruck

12/22/2018 11:43 PM

Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more

I’m surprised more people have not brought up how poor and overmatched the consensus (according to this board) MAC Player of the Year was in this game. [/QUOTE]You were so excited to jump on and puff your Big Ten chest out there, you forgot to read the thread before running your mouth.

Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more

Carter was off tonight, did not have his normal touch around the rim...I'm not concerned.

brucecuth wrote:expand_more

4. I love Carter, so I was disappointed that he didn't do better on a nationally televised game.

[QUOTE=oubobcatjohn]The size of Purdue took away Carter and Taylor inside.

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GraffZ06

12/23/2018 1:29 AM

bshot44 wrote:expand_more

Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more

No idea how you see this team getting to 20 wins. We're 7-4 with a tough FIU team coming up. Even if we win that one, we'd have to go 12-6 in the MAC.

No chance we're beating Buffalo at home, and we usually lay a random egg somewhere so 7-1 at best or, more likely, 6-2 at home in the MAC is my prediction. On the road? Eeesh - we don't play well at all. I see one, MAYBE two road wins? That would put us somewhere between 7-9 MAC wins (aka slightly below average) and something like 14-17 wins total.

Gun to my head I'd say 16 wins. Sounds about right just based on the eyeball test so far. That's a far cry from 20. Bigger question is will it be good enough for Saul? We'll see.

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giacomo

12/23/2018 8:26 AM

That’s why we play the games, Nostradamus.

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El Gato Roberto

12/23/2018 11:21 AM

giacomo wrote:expand_more

That’s why we play the games, Nostradamus.

There it is.

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OUVan

12/23/2018 8:46 PM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

I'd take the ball out of his hands a little bit, and get Preston and Block more involved as distributors. The thing is, it's not going to happen. The coaches seem to have their wagon hitched to TK.

I would go so far as to say we should hitch our wagon completely to Preston and give him the experience he needs. He's inexperienced and not perfect but at least he knows how to run an offense. He moves the ball and drives to create offense not just to score. TK would be much better playing off the ball. Play to his strengths not his weaknesses.

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Jeff McKinney

12/23/2018 9:12 PM

OUVan wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

I'd take the ball out of his hands a little bit, and get Preston and Block more involved as distributors. The thing is, it's not going to happen. The coaches seem to have their wagon hitched to TK.

Agree.

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Buck.Cat

12/24/2018 10:27 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more

Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more

You were so excited to jump on and puff your Big Ten chest out there, you forgot to read the thread before running your mouth.

[QUOTE=Andrew Ruck]Carter was off tonight, did not have his normal touch around the rim...I'm not concerned.

brucecuth wrote:expand_more

4. I love Carter, so I was disappointed that he didn't do better on a nationally televised game.

oubobcatjohn wrote:expand_more

The size of Purdue took away Carter and Taylor inside.

Which of these quotes comes close to approaching what I specifically stated?

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OU_Country

12/25/2018 11:41 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Odds are that the same people would have complained if this game wasn't played at all, and instead Ohio was playing another MEAC school at home. Can't have it both ways folks.

Too much to ask for having Ohio play at Purdue, rather than a home game v. a MEAC school, and looking halfway respectable at the same time?

There was a time, not too long ago, when Ohio would do just that. The Bobcats would even pull off a win every once in a while.

Nothing wrong with those expectations (hopes), no. But I would ask, when is the last time or two that Ohio played a road game at a team as good as Purdue, and won?

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OU_Country

12/25/2018 11:47 PM

Left out in all this conversation is the fact that UB got blow out at Marquette last week. I guess they should be embarrassed by that bad loss. 🙄

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Recovering Journalist

12/26/2018 10:27 AM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Nothing wrong with those expectations (hopes), no. But I would ask, when is the last time or two that Ohio played a road game at a team as good as Purdue, and won?

Simple. The last time we had a different coach.

Not including conference results, I'd say Groce had one in his last year and Christian had on in his second: Beating 19-win Richmond in 2013 and 20-win Northern Iowa in 2011.

Purdue is a solid team but hardly the kind of worldbeater that justifies trying to explain away a disgraceful blowout.

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Recovering Journalist

12/26/2018 10:28 AM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Left out in all this conversation is the fact that UB got blow out at Marquette last week. I guess they should be embarrassed by that bad loss. 🙄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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OUVan

12/26/2018 11:32 AM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Odds are that the same people would have complained if this game wasn't played at all, and instead Ohio was playing another MEAC school at home. Can't have it both ways folks.

Nothing wrong with those expectations (hopes), no. But I would ask, when is the last time or two that Ohio played a road game at a team as good as Purdue, and won?

Per KenPom we've had two OOC road wins against top 75 teams since 2002. One was Northern Iowa in 2012 and the other was Maryland in Leon Williams' homecoming. You'd have to go back to the 90s to find road wins against teams as good as Purdue.

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Buck.Cat

12/26/2018 1:50 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Left out in all this conversation is the fact that UB got blow out at Marquette last week. I guess they should be embarrassed by that bad loss. 🙄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Beat me to it. Saulcoholics are grasping at any straw within reach.

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allen

12/26/2018 2:31 PM

Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more

Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Left out in all this conversation is the fact that UB got blow out at Marquette last week. I guess they should be embarrassed by that bad loss. 🙄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Beat me to it. Saulcoholics are grasping at any straw within reach.

Lol, they are relentless. I hope that he can be successful and keep his job. UB did not get blown out, they had the lead with 10 minutes to go. Oats did everything that he could but that Marquette guard got hot. We have no variance (zone) that would have stopped Howard or purdue’s guard. Marquette was perfectly suited to beat Buffalo.

Last Edited: 12/26/2018 2:54:56 PM by allen

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GraffZ06

12/26/2018 4:43 PM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Left out in all this conversation is the fact that UB got blow out at Marquette last week. I guess they should be embarrassed by that bad loss. 🙄

I dunno about embarrassed - it was a top 20 team they played after all (where in the Top 20 is Purdue ranked again this year??) - but I DID make the statement that I wouldn't be shocked to see Buffalo tumble to the very bottom of the Top 25 due to the fact the margin was so wide.

My original prediction was 21/22 with a possibility of as low as 24/25.

Well - AP has them at #21 and Coaches at #22 this week (and Marquette hardly moved at all with the win - now at #18/#20).

Shows you how little respect the MAC and Buffalo still get. So embarrassed? No probably not, but it was indeed a bad bad loss in the eyes of the "country" and "experts".

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GraffZ06

12/26/2018 6:46 PM

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more

OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Odds are that the same people would have complained if this game wasn't played at all, and instead Ohio was playing another MEAC school at home. Can't have it both ways folks.

Nothing wrong with those expectations (hopes), no. But I would ask, when is the last time or two that Ohio played a road game at a team as good as Purdue, and won?

That's an open-ended question. Define "as good as Purdue". No clue what that implies - a P5 team? Top 50 RPI? What? Anyway, I went back as far as I could find RPI data online (used realtimerpi for current season back to 2003-04 and then teamrankings.com for 2002-03 back to 1997-98). Yes I know RPI isn't perfect but it was something I could use for historical perspective without knowing what you meant.

These results are only for true road games (no neutral sites). Yearly results with coach, record (overall and in-conference) and best OOC wins below with RPI rating:

2018-19: Saul Phillips, (1-2, 0-0 MAC) - OOC Wins: #204 Detroit
2017-18: Saul Phillips, (2-10, 2-8 MAC) - OOC Wins: n/a
2016-17: Saul Phillips, (7-6, 6-3 MAC) - OOC Wins: #106 Georgia Tech
2015-16: Saul Phillips, (5-6, 4-5 MAC) - OOC Wins: #278 Cleveland St
2014-15: Saul Phillips, (1-11, 1-9 MAC) - OOC Wins: n/a

Overall: 16-35 (.314), MAC: 13-25 (.342), OOC: 3-10 (.231)
Best Road Wins: #91 Buffalo (2016), #106 Ga Tech (2016), #116 E Michigan (2018)
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2013-14: Jim Christian, (10-4,7-2 MAC) - OOC Wins: #75 Richmond, #203 UNC Asheville, #221 Morgan St
2012-13: Jim Christian, (7-7, 7-1 MAC) - OOC Wins: n/a

Overall: 17-11 (.607), MAC: 14-3 (.824), OOC: 3-8 (.273)
Best Road Wins: #75 Richmond (2013), #84 E Michigan (2014), #92 Akron (2014)
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2011-12: John Groce, (8-6, 3-5 MAC) - OOC Wins: #44 Marshall, #72 N Iowa, #141 Oakland, #226 Wright St, #238 Portland
2010-11: John Groce, (7-6, 4-4 MAC) - OOC Wins: #54 Marshall, #222 Winthrop, #255 Illinois St
2009-10: John Groce, (5-9, 3-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #83 IUPUI, #239 Delaware
2008-09: John Groce, (2-13, 1-7 MAC) - OOC Wins: #144 Austin Peay

Overall: 22-34 (.393), MAC: 11-22 (.333), OOC: 11-12 (.478)
Best Road Wins: #44 Marshall (2011), #54 Marshall (2011), #72 N Iowa (2011)
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2007-08: Tim O'Shea, (6-11, 2-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #82 Maryland, #154 St.John's, #204 Bucknell, #313 St.Francis NY
2006-07: Tim O'Shea, (6-10, 3-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #175 Cincinnati, #271 NC A&T, #279 St.Bonaventure
2005-06: Tim O'Shea, (5-7, 3-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #108 Marist, #152 Rhode Island
2004-05: Tim O'Shea, (4-9, 3-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #196 Detroit
2003-04: Tim O'Shea, (1-14, 0-10 MAC) - OOC Wins: #314 Navy
2002-03: Tim O'Shea, (5-10, 4-6 MAC) - OOC Wins: #128 Brown
2001-02: Tim O'Shea, (8-5, 5-4 MAC) - OOC Wins: #148 North Carolina, #211 DePaul, #291 Navy

Overall: 35-66 (.347), MAC: 20-44 (.313), OOC: 15-22 (.405)
Best Road Wins: #30 Buffalo (2005), #82 Maryland (2007), #108 Marist (2005)
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2000-01: Larry Hunter, (6-8, 4-5 MAC) - OOC Wins: #113 Arizona St, #207 Oakland
1999-00: Larry Hunter, (5-8, 4-5 MAC) - OOC Wins: #97 West Virginia
1998-99: Larry Hunter, (6-7, 4-5 MAC) - OOC Wins: #55 Syracuse, #96 C Florida
1997-98: Larry Hunter, (1-12, 0-9 MAC) - OOC Wins: #180 Wright St

Overall: 18-35 (.340), MAC: 12-24 (.333), OOC: 6-11 (.353)
Best Road Wins: #55 Syracuse (1998), #65 Bowling Green (1999), #70 Miami (2000)

*Note Hunter's record above is incomplete due to lack of further historical data for RPI and as such is skewed pretty negatively by the Wilderness Campaign(TM) of 1997-98.
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22 Year Totals: 108-181 (.374)
MAC Totals: 70-118 (.372)
OOC Totals: 38-63 (.376)

10 Best Road Wins:
#30 Buffalo - Tim O'Shea (2005)
#44 Marshall - John Groce (2011)
#54 Marshall - John Groce (2011)
#55 Syracuse - Larry Hunter (1998)
#65 Bowling Green - Larry Hunter (1999)
#70 Miami OH - Larry Hunter (2000)
#72 Northern Iowa - John Groce (2011)
#75 Richmond - Jim Christian (2013)
#82 Maryland - Tim O'Shea (2007)
#83 IUPUI - John Groce (2009)

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Andrew Ruck

12/27/2018 9:19 AM

Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more

Which of these quotes comes close to approaching what I specifically stated?

You said you were surprised nobody brought up how poorly Carter played. 3 people specifically stated he did poorly.