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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: TOS to Cleveland State
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Pataskala
7/12/2019 4:47 PM
Felton and staff let go today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/07/12/cl... /.
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BobcatSports
7/13/2019 11:04 AM
Wow a little late in the off-season to decide to jettison the whole staff.
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allen
7/13/2019 1:13 PM
We may want to take a good look at Jalaam hill, who entered the transfer portal. He is a very efficient player who was on a bad team. https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/jaalam-hill-...
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berniebobcat
7/13/2019 8:22 PM
Indeed! Is there any information beyond speculation about Mr. Hill and our program?
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mf279801
7/13/2019 8:29 PM
So...firing the whole staff in July: was this the result of a late breaking scandal, or did the university’s fiscal year tick over, either giving the AD the resources to buy out the staff or resulting in their contracts all expiring? Am i missing something obvious as to the cause for the late firing?
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GPro31
7/13/2019 9:26 PM
Felton has ties to Dawkins and they decided to start from scratch. With a transfer they have 6 guys on the roster. Everyone transferred out. It’s actually sad. As a native Clevelander it’s hard to watch. Need to get a coach who has ties to NEO. Would’ve loved Calhoun who’s now at YSU for CSU job, but life as a mid major is tough.
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Recovering Journalist
7/15/2019 8:45 AM
GPro31 wrote:expand_more
Felton has ties to Dawkins and they decided to start from scratch. With a transfer they have 6 guys on the roster. Everyone transferred out. It’s actually sad. As a native Clevelander it’s hard to watch. Need to get a coach who has ties to NEO. Would’ve loved Calhoun who’s now at YSU for CSU job, but life as a mid major is tough.
Cleveland State is a particularly tough job. Clevelanders just haven't seemed to care about the team since their Sweet 16 run in 1986. Even when they made the NCAA Tournament in 2009, they averaged less than 2,500 fans in a building bigger than the Convo - and attendance declined the following year. The Vikings' fan base makes Akron football look popular.

I don't see much hope for them either. With the exception of Columbus, Cleveland is the most die-hard O$U zone in the state. None of the other schools seem to matter in any other sport -- and that sadly includes most MAC alumni.
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OUcats82
7/15/2019 10:11 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Felton has ties to Dawkins and they decided to start from scratch. With a transfer they have 6 guys on the roster. Everyone transferred out. It’s actually sad. As a native Clevelander it’s hard to watch. Need to get a coach who has ties to NEO. Would’ve loved Calhoun who’s now at YSU for CSU job, but life as a mid major is tough.
Cleveland State is a particularly tough job. Clevelanders just haven't seemed to care about the team since their Sweet 16 run in 1986. Even when they made the NCAA Tournament in 2009, they averaged less than 2,500 fans in a building bigger than the Convo - and attendance declined the following year. The Vikings' fan base makes Akron football look popular.

I don't see much hope for them either. With the exception of Columbus, Cleveland is the most die-hard O$U zone in the state. None of the other schools seem to matter in any other sport -- and that sadly includes most MAC alumni.
Would you say CSU is a school moreso for people in the Cleveland Metro area who want to earn a degree close to home at a reasonable (about 10K a year?) price but it's more of a means to an end rather than someone seeking the entire college experience?

That just happens to have sports?

I would think their student body is overwhelmingly commuter-based with a good amount of non-traditional students?
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Recovering Journalist
7/15/2019 11:04 AM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
Would you say CSU is a school moreso for people in the Cleveland Metro area who want to earn a degree close to home at a reasonable (about 10K a year?) price but it's more of a means to an end rather than someone seeking the entire college experience?

That just happens to have sports?

I would think their student body is overwhelmingly commuter-based with a good amount of non-traditional students?
Cleveland State was saddled with that reputation for years, but that’s changed dramatically recently. They have poured money into the campus and significantly increased the on-campus population. CSU is today a really nice urban campus, which makes it a great option for kids who want a city experience in college. There are still a lot of commuters and non-traditional students, but it’s much more like a city school than a commuter school these days. I think the sports thing is problematic for a few reasons: The aforementioned lack of community support won’t ever change, even though on-campus enrollment is up there are still a lot of commuters and the on-campus vibe is so new that there are no athletic traditions among students.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
7/15/2019 12:51 PM
Just had their lacrosse coach resign......something has gotta be up at that school
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Recovering Journalist
7/15/2019 1:46 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Just had their lacrosse coach resign......something has gotta be up at that school
Could just be the new AD and new-ish president shaking things up. I have several friends who teach there and I'll update if I hear anything.
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allen
7/15/2019 2:37 PM
Sonny Johnson is being mentioned as a possible name.
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GPro31
7/20/2019 3:02 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Would you say CSU is a school moreso for people in the Cleveland Metro area who want to earn a degree close to home at a reasonable (about 10K a year?) price but it's more of a means to an end rather than someone seeking the entire college experience?

That just happens to have sports?

I would think their student body is overwhelmingly commuter-based with a good amount of non-traditional students?
Cleveland State was saddled with that reputation for years, but that’s changed dramatically recently. They have poured money into the campus and significantly increased the on-campus population. CSU is today a really nice urban campus, which makes it a great option for kids who want a city experience in college. There are still a lot of commuters and non-traditional students, but it’s much more like a city school than a commuter school these days. I think the sports thing is problematic for a few reasons: The aforementioned lack of community support won’t ever change, even though on-campus enrollment is up there are still a lot of commuters and the on-campus vibe is so new that there are no athletic traditions among students.

There is a different feel on campus now. In the past ten years CSU has added so many more dorms and buildings. It is an urban campus, however now has a true college feel. Yes there are still commuters, and non traditional students but with all the new facilities there is a reason for kids to stay on campus. The Wolstein needs updates, or a new arena needs to be built. Woodling doesn’t have the capacity for D1 basketball, but it houses all other sports. There needs to be a change at CSU for hoops. The new AD has a lot to work out. I’d like to see a 6k arena for more of an intimate setting. At Ohio we had so many traditions on campus and at games. Students at Ohio wanted to go to games and be apart of it all. (I know times have changed a bit since I was there as I hear the lack of ozone members) but I felt in the mid 2000s our fan base at Ohio mad e a huge difference in sporting events compared to other Mac schools.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
7/22/2019 3:59 PM
I'd think it's tough to convince a kid to go to a Vikings game when he or she can pick up a ticket to an NBA game on StubHub for less than 10 bucks in the same city, right?

As bad as the Cavs are, you can go watch NBA basketball, where the other team has somebody you probably want to watch, for dirt cheap prices right now.
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Recovering Journalist
7/22/2019 7:54 PM
GPro31 wrote:expand_more
The Wolstein needs updates, or a new arena needs to be built. Woodling doesn’t have the capacity for D1 basketball, but it houses all other sports. There needs to be a change at CSU for hoops. The new AD has a lot to work out. I’d like to see a 6k arena for more of an intimate setting. A
Wolstein is a disaster in hindsight. At the time it was conceived, it made a lot of sense. The Cavs played in Richfield, the memory of the 1986 Vikings team and the excitement they stirred in the city was fresh and the ceiling for CSU hoops seemed high. It would be the only arena in the city... aaaaaand less than a year later, the Cavs broke ground on their new downtown arena literally one mile away.

Today, Wolstein loses money every year. Too big for smaller acts, too small and bereft of amenities for bigger ones, it gets almost no action outside of Vikings games that draw announced crowds of around 1,000 (actual is quite a bit less).

Short of a donor footing the whole bill (including demo of the white elephant Wolstein Center), there's no way CSU is getting a new arena. It's a weird, complex puzzle because Wolstein would be great if they could average like 5,000 fans - there's nothing wrong with it except it's the wrong size in the wrong place.
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Buck.Cat
7/23/2019 9:34 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Today, Wolstein loses money every year. Too big for smaller acts, too small and bereft of amenities for bigger ones, it gets almost no action outside of Vikings games that draw announced crowds of around 1,000 (actual is quite a bit less).
I've seen some pretty epic concerts there. Love that room.
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Bball Jones
7/23/2019 9:53 AM
The CS staff was let go because the coach lost his team! The players revolted, went to the AD and demanded the coach’s termination. They refused to play for him and threaten to leave. Apparently, the coach was very disrespectful to the players and they no longer wanted to play for him.
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rpbobcat
7/23/2019 11:01 AM
Bball Jones wrote:expand_more
The CS staff was let go because the coach lost his team! The players revolted, went to the AD and demanded the coach’s termination. They refused to play for him and threaten to leave. Apparently, the coach was very disrespectful to the players and they no longer wanted to play for him.
I wish there was more information on exactly what "disrespectful" means.

I do find it amazing how the world has changed.

As I've posted,back in mid/late 70's,I played D1 soccer for O.U.
Then I wrestled D1 for F.D.U.

Respect from your coaches was something you had to earn.
Respecting your coaches,was a given.

You were expected to perform at a certain level.
You didn't,like "dogging" it at practice,or giving up/coasting in a match,you heard it from the coaches.
And then you ran,a LOT.

We didn't win every game.
I didn't win every match.

But,the coaches knew if you gave everything you had.
If you did,they never had anything bad to say.
In fact,they stressed that "you gave it your all".

As far as the players "revolting",that's not something we'd
even consider.
If we did,I think we have been told "there's the door".

I'm not saying "old school" was better,just that it was very different then today.
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SBH
7/23/2019 11:08 AM
CSU and Akron are two great examples of schools that lost sight of their core missions - to be respected urban universities serving the needs of "non-traditional" students. Akron in the 1980s decided to fill a need that didn't exist - a second residential public university within a 15-mile radius. All of the spending on dorms, stadium, etc. has resulted in monstrous debt, a significantly weakened academic reputation and declining enrollment. Their leadership has been criminally incompetent.

CSU has tried to do the same though on a smaller scale. They even considered adding a football program a few years ago. Wolstein Center is only a symptom of a much larger problem.
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SBH
7/23/2019 11:09 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
The CS staff was let go because the coach lost his team! The players revolted, went to the AD and demanded the coach’s termination. They refused to play for him and threaten to leave. Apparently, the coach was very disrespectful to the players and they no longer wanted to play for him.
I wish there was more information on exactly what "disrespectful" means.

I do find it amazing how the world has changed.

As I've posted,back in mid/late 70's,I played D1 soccer for O.U.
Then I wrestled D1 for F.D.U.

Respect from your coaches was something you had to earn.
Respecting your coaches,was a given.

You were expected to perform at a certain level.
You didn't,like "dogging" it at practice,or giving up/coasting in a match,you heard it from the coaches.
And then you ran,a LOT.

We didn't win every game.
I didn't win every match.

But,the coaches knew if you gave everything you had.
If you did,they never had anything bad to say.
In fact,they stressed that "you gave it your all".

As far as the players "revolting",that's not something we'd
even consider.
If we did,I think we have been told "there's the door".

I'm not saying "old school" was better,just that it was very different then today.
Yes, and per a recent PD article the players weren't exactly burning it up in the classroom. No accountability.
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Recovering Journalist
7/23/2019 11:59 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
CSU and Akron are two great examples of schools that lost sight of their core missions - to be respected urban universities serving the needs of "non-traditional" students. Akron in the 1980s decided to fill a need that didn't exist - a second residential public university within a 15-mile radius. All of the spending on dorms, stadium, etc. has resulted in monstrous debt, a significantly weakened academic reputation and declining enrollment. Their leadership has been criminally incompetent.

CSU has tried to do the same though on a smaller scale. They even considered adding a football program a few years ago. Wolstein Center is only a symptom of a much larger problem.
While I agree that Akron is a disaster and has made a lot of missteps – mostly under Proenza – your cannot even think of putting CSU in the same category. First off, Akron is about half a billion dollars in debt. The latest debt figure I found for CSU is about two thirds of that at $213 million. Second, enrollment is in a freefall at Akron – down 26 percent from 2014-2018 and still dropping. Meanwhile, CSU has held pretty steady with a nominal decline in the last couple years (going from about 17,500 to 16,600). CSU has built itself into a respected urban university that still serves non-traditional students but now offers a traditional college experience in an urban setting. In fact, part of its success has come at the expense of Akron, as there is more opportunity and city life in Cleveland.

You’re wrong about Wolstein – when they conjured it up it made perfect business sense. It would have been the only arena in the city and in fact it was a very busy venue until it was eclipsed by the Cavs’ new home. You’re absolutely right about the football idea at CSU. That would have been absolutely idiotic.
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rpbobcat
7/23/2019 12:05 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Yes, and per a recent PD article the players weren't exactly burning it up in the classroom. No accountability.
At O.U.,practice and away games didn't have a significant impact on class or
study time.
We also had priority scheduling.This helped a lot.

Time Management was more of an issue at F.D.U.,especially with the amount of time we spent running and lifting,outside of "official" practice.

Again,at F.D.U.,we had priority scheduling.This was a big help,especially with labs.Most labs were on Fridays.The morning sections always filled up fast.

The coaching staff made it very clear,academics come first.

If you had to be late to or even miss a practice,because of conflict,usually a final or to study for a final,it wasn't an issue.
Back then,you didn't find out the Finals'schedule,till about mid semester.
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Pataskala
7/24/2019 10:05 AM
Terry Pluto had an article Monday about the firing: https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/07/clevelan...

Sounds like a real disaster. And CSU might have eat about $1 million of Felton's contract.

Jordan Mincy has been talking to CSU: https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/07/clevelan...
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Buck.Cat
7/24/2019 10:21 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
I wish there was more information on exactly what "disrespectful" means.

I do find it amazing how the world has changed.

As I've posted,back in mid/late 70's,I played D1 soccer for O.U.
Then I wrestled D1 for F.D.U.

Respect from your coaches was something you had to earn.
Respecting your coaches,was a given.

You were expected to perform at a certain level.
You didn't,like "dogging" it at practice,or giving up/coasting in a match,you heard it from the coaches.
And then you ran,a LOT.

We didn't win every game.
I didn't win every match.

But,the coaches knew if you gave everything you had.
If you did,they never had anything bad to say.
In fact,they stressed that "you gave it your all".

As far as the players "revolting",that's not something we'd
even consider.
If we did,I think we have been told "there's the door".

I'm not saying "old school" was better,just that it was very different then today.
Current student athletes have more courage to stand up against wrong than student athletes from back in the day. We also have women having equality in participation in college athletics which has changed dynamics significantly.
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