Sometimes it takes hyperbolic humor to make a point. Well played! ;-)

Ask Treg Setty and some other guys on those two Ohio teams if JC was a "fraud".

I don't know if he's a fraud but he certainly is overrated. Since he left Kent 13 seasons ago he's had just four winning seasons overall and just two in three different conferences, both at Ohio and mostly with Groce's recruits. Even at Ohio there was a big dropoff in the MAC, from 14-2 in year one to 11-7 in year two. It seems like he's better at building off successful programs than turning unsuccessful programs around. He built off Kent's Elite Eight team and won with Groce's Sweet 16 team. But he flopped with downtrodden TCU and BC programs. That's why I think his next coaching gig will likely be at one that's having success now instead of trying to turn around a lousy program.

Yes its remarkable when you can discount what JC did in two years at Ohio with Groce's recruits. Perhaps its unfair to JC dismissing his coaching job at Ohio for two years but there is no way to prove otherwise. Nothing proves that JC is a decent coach by top 10 conference standards. He ran with loaded mid major teams at Kent and Ohio but did nothing at the next level.

Anyone ever wonder why Groce didn’t win a National Championship at Illinois? His talent and ability is obviously heads and tails above all others.

You mean the 280 previous editions since 2013 didn't cover all the angles adequately? ;-)

Hard to fault Groce. You take the job when it comes. He was paid several million dollars to fail at Illinois, and the end result was a job in the same conference he was in previously with a similar salary.

Maybe things would have been different at Minnesota or Northwestern, but I feel like the Illinois job was pretty ideal for him. He recruited Chicago well, could tap into the same recruiting network that he'd built at Ohio State, had a strong budget, etc. It's the sort of job you've got to take while you've got the chance.

It's really easy to imagine a world where LeVert joins, we go back to the Sweet 16, and Groce has his pick of jobs. It's equally easy -- and more statistically likely -- that Groce comes back, we lost in the MAC tournament, and his prospects are worse.

There's just too much you can't predict. If he stayed at Ohio, he still could have just as easily had an NIT season or worse. When you're a MAC program, it just takes one game. Then there's less interest in him as a head coach elsewhere.

Coaches operate under a modified Peter Principle. While the rest of us rise to our level of incompetence, coaches rise to their incompetence level, then are knocked down a peg.

I have a hard time buying the whole, “anyone would have gone to Illinois for that money” – “family setup forever… blah blah blah”.

Anyone with an ounce of fiscal insight can make $325K work very well in Athens, Ohio. Coaches take these jobs because of ego and desire to be a
Krzyzewski someday.

I could be wrong. Maybe it is all about money. For me, quality of life and less stress is much more important than money. See Geography degree from Ohio for reference.

$1M in Urbana-Champaign works a even better than $325K in Athens. Illinois is no blue blood, but that's a program that can get to the Final Four. It would be insane not to take that opportunity.

$1M in Urbana-Champaign works a even better than $325K in Athens. Illinois is no blue blood, but that's a program that can get to the Final Four. It would be insane not to take that opportunity. [/QUOTEI)

It would be interesting to scare up that discussion of Bobcat fans raising money and the amount needed to keep Groce here while every one was trying to track flights to Champaign. He has done well financially even if it means ultimately ending up and living in Akron.

From the outside it is interesting to see where Groce ended up compared to his friends and family after we told him he could not hire his brother Travis Steele to fill out the staff alongside his college running mate Holtmann. Both are doing well financially and professionally where they have been and are presently. I think when all is said and done both will end up with more rewarding careers and finances. I am with the thought about fit more than money. That makes more sense to find a place like a Gonzaga or Belmont or even Dayton under Donoher where you can be successful and develop athletes both skill wise and as humans over the long haul. Seems that the stories out of Illinois and the government mismanagement would call into question whether the 1M would be even better than that lesser amount in Athens. I am not sure I would tell those same folks bailing out their crooked politicians that they are not a Blue Blood. Every Illinois fan I have ever met thinks their rivals are Kansas, Kentucky and North Carolina and can't quite understand why Chicago kids choose Duke over U of I.