Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 23 Thread: Toledo
Page: 7 of 8
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/9/2022 9:20 AM
jumper80 wrote:expand_more
I was at the Toledo game in Athens and watched the Toledo team walk off the court post game without shaking hands. I thought it may have been some weird covid thing but it was obvious by Boals reaction that he wasn’t expecting that.

It appeared on TV last night that we walked off the court post game.

Just curious if something is triggering that
It's definitely Covid, see this all the time.
Last Edited: 2/9/2022 9:37:48 AM by spongeBOB CATpants
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/9/2022 9:31 AM
Our lack of any real threat from the 3 point line hurts us. Schmock hit some but he doesn't exactly draw the attention of the defense and I'm sure opponents are fine with him shooting the ball.

Sears man. He gets exposed against better competition. Might not be a popular opinion but how can you see it otherwise? It's ride or die on Sears at this point in the season, not a good formula for winning. 2 assists and a lot of bricks.

Toledo plays team basketball on both ends of the floor. We play a little bit of team ball defensively (at times), and its the Sears show on offense mixed in with a little bit of 1 on 1 from BVP and JC. We ran multiple plays for Roderick coming out of a dead ball who was being guarded by Rollins, head scratcher.

Shumate. I mean wow. An all world rim-protector, who would've thought? He was the difference in the game, plain and simple.
Last Edited: 2/9/2022 9:33:14 AM by spongeBOB CATpants
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person
Good cat Good cat
2/9/2022 9:56 AM
I had us 1-13 in shooting from. 2 feet in or closer last nite. My review of Savage Hall last nite: unique facility. Much less of a gym feel but not quite an arena. For the mask scoreboard followers (ugh) I’d say 6% of crowd was in masks
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FearLeon
2/9/2022 9:57 AM
Ohio and Toledo have played 80 minutes against each other this season and Ohio has led for a grand total of 43 seconds. 43 seconds. That’s it. We have been thoroughly outplayed and out coached in both games. Tod K has our number right now. You look at all four of our losses and you see where the presence of Dwight Wilson would help immensely. No rim protector presence to compete with Shumate for example. The loss of McDay in these type of games hurts as well as I think he would be guarding Rollins. We have nobody who can guard that guy. I have to believe some power 5 schools will come calling in April for him. What a player.


The stats of Sears in big games is alarming. He drives down low and against disciplined D they block or hold their ground. That’s an issue. Obviously at least on a couple of occasions he should’ve been going to the line. Crazy the non-calls. But Sears driving against these guys is something that needs addressed. This has been discussed multiple times, but we just don’t go anywhere if Roderick doesn’t find his game. His body language on the court is passive and there is no aggression taking it to the hole. How many times this year has he driven to the hoop and hit nothing but backboard? Where did the Ben Roderick who was putting daggers into Virginia last March go? This team needs Roderick to show up.

Bottom line is this team needs a different approach for when they face Toledo again. Eight straight regular season losses to Toledo? That is hard to fathom.

No reason to discuss NET rankings or Top 25 votes.

It comes down to three special days in Cleveland.

Always has.
Last Edited: 2/9/2022 10:24:32 AM by FearLeon
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Recovering Journalist
2/9/2022 10:10 AM
Nothing to add about the Toledo game that hasn't already been said. It'll be interesting to see whether this team can dust itself off for what remains a tough last few weeks of the regular season. At this point I'm afraid it'll all be about protecting the two seed.
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MonroeClassmate
2/9/2022 11:08 AM
Only listened to the game.

Who did Miles Brown shut down?

Why did Clayton get only 7 minutes? Did Towns get injured that kept his minutes to only four?
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/9/2022 11:10 AM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
Only listened to the game.

Who did Miles Brown shut down?

Why did Clayton get only 7 minutes? Did Towns get injured that kept his minutes to only four?
Not sure Miles shut anybody down but himself.

There was a clear mismatch regarding speed/athleticism to give Clayton and Towns significant minutes. Limited minutes was probably good for their sake.
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Cellis033
2/9/2022 11:12 AM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
Only listened to the game.

Who did Miles Brown shut down?

Why did Clayton get only 7 minutes? Did Towns get injured that kept his minutes to only four?
Towns took a hard fall going for a rebound mid 1st half, saw him get up but he was in some discomfort. I could see him having a bruised tailbone but that's just complete speculation.
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OhioCatFan
2/9/2022 12:14 PM
Can anyone tell me why Sears continued to go under the basket against UT where he got swatted every time? He can do this against a lot of teams, but in both games against Toledo he was very ineffective with his drives to the basket. He couldn't get away with his clever fakes and reverse-handed layups. Shouldn't Boals have instructed him that he should take more outside shots or look for medium range jumpers and not attack the basket so much? Heck, I would have been happier with him just launching a three each time down the court rather than driving and getting eaten alive. I like Sears a lot, but his performance against the Rockets leaves me scratching my head.
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shabamon
2/9/2022 1:04 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Can anyone tell me why Sears continued to go under the basket against UT where he got swatted every time? He can do this against a lot of teams, but in both games against Toledo he was very ineffective with his drives to the basket. He couldn't get away with his clever fakes and reverse-handed layups. Shouldn't Boals have instructed him that he should take more outside shots or look for medium range jumpers and not attack the basket so much? Heck, I would have been happier with him just launching a three each time down the court rather than driving and getting eaten alive. I like Sears a lot, but his performance against the Rockets leaves me scratching my head.
I want my players playing to their strengths. Sears' strength is getting to the basket and getting to the line. If two or three of those blocks are instead fouls (I can think of one in particular that should have been), who knows what that could open up for the rest of the offense.
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GraffZ06
2/9/2022 9:06 PM
Putting these here to reference what I said following the UK game because everything I said still applies - specifically the part about Sears struggling in the paint against good competition, as he now has both Toledo games.

GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Carter and BVP played as well as can be expected IMO. They can hang with that team. Sears "can" but looked like a Sophomore playing big minutes against a top 15 team for the first time in his career on some of those drives (because that's exactly what he is). He's got to learn a floater (ala Preston) or be able to hit a pull up jumper from the foul line, because his first step is deadly. He also needs to learn to finish at the rim through contact (easier said than done against length like UK) but 2-11 from the field isn't going to cut it from our top scorer.

We DESPERATELY need a 4th option though. Where is that coming from?

We full out stopped being aggressive on O. We set screens. We move without the ball. We share the ball well. All good things, but sometimes you have to do more than settle for hoisting 3s, even if they're good looks.

Ben Roderick. 1 point. 1 freaking point. Dude, you can't rebound or play defense. If you're not going to score, take a seat.

Honestly I think this is where we missed Preston's length and 6'4 size. How many times did our bigs box out well, only for a long rebound to land in the hands of one of UK's wings or guards? This is a problem when you go 6'1 (Sears) 6'1 (Brown) and 6'5 (but plays smaller Roderick) across the back.

I said it last year after Creighton and I'll say it again after UK - the BIGGEST need on this team is a long/athletic 3 and D wing. Somebody in the 6'5-6'7 range with length. We have absolutely nobody on our roster that fits that, and didn't address it - and come tourney time these types of teams are taking advantage of it. Maybe not in the MAC, but I think our aspirations are/should be bigger than that.

This team will be a really good MAC team. Question is, can they make the jump to being a good NCAA tourney team? We're light years from that right now.
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bobcatsquared
2/9/2022 10:35 PM
Graf, I was making a similar point during the first half of last night's game in the chat room. At half time I took a quick look at box scores from the UK, LSU and 1st UT games and found the following:

OUr big 3 of Sears, BVP and Carter scored a combined 44 of 59 pts (75%) v. UK; 33 of 51 (65%) v. LSU; and 45 of 69 (65%) v. UT. The most pts. scored by any other Bobcat in any of those 3 games was 7 by Miles Brown in the UT game.

Last year our 5 starters all averaged between 10 and 16 pts with Sears adding 8.5 off the bench. This year? OUr 4th scorer, BRod, averages 7.5, followed by Brown at 6.7. Those two came to Ohio after averaging a combined 55 pts a game as high school seniors.

It's a major disadvantage when the offense has 3 threats that defenses can focus all of their attention on. Good luck when 1 or 2 of those 3 are on the bench. We'll continue to beat most of the teams on our schedule because of those 3. We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
Last Edited: 2/9/2022 10:36:11 PM by bobcatsquared
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OhioCatFan
2/10/2022 12:02 AM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Can anyone tell me why Sears continued to go under the basket against UT where he got swatted every time? He can do this against a lot of teams, but in both games against Toledo he was very ineffective with his drives to the basket. He couldn't get away with his clever fakes and reverse-handed layups. Shouldn't Boals have instructed him that he should take more outside shots or look for medium range jumpers and not attack the basket so much? Heck, I would have been happier with him just launching a three each time down the court rather than driving and getting eaten alive. I like Sears a lot, but his performance against the Rockets leaves me scratching my head.
I want my players playing to their strengths. Sears' strength is getting to the basket and getting to the line. If two or three of those blocks are instead fouls (I can think of one in particular that should have been), who knows what that could open up for the rest of the offense.
I see what you are saying, but isn't part of having a high BBIQ realizing when things are not working and then trying alternate ways to score?
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FearLeon
2/10/2022 12:06 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
And the person who needs to step up is Ben Roderick. Case closed. I know he has to be disappointed by his play this year. It’s been stunning how bad it is offensively. Hopefully he finds the magic heading into March.
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GraffZ06
2/10/2022 12:09 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
It's a major disadvantage when the offense has 3 threats that defenses can focus all of their attention on. Good luck when 1 or 2 of those 3 are on the bench. We'll continue to beat most of the teams on our schedule because of those 3. We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
Agreed and QFT.

Goes directly to reasoning behind my "I just don't get the feeling this team is going to make a magical March run" post.

Again, hope I'm wrong. And it's not because Boals isn't doing a phenomenal job. And it's not because we aren't a good team. We just have some serious holes / flaws / deficiencies that give me pause.

We don't have a Trent or DJ Cooper or even Preston (NBA talent) who can take over games even against P5 NCAA teams. Nor do we have a Nick Kellogg or Armon Bassett or shoot BRod from last year who is shooting the lights out from 3 and can keep us in games where we have match up problems elsewhere. Nor do we have a Trent or Leon Williams or DeVaughn Washington or Reggie Keely or Dwight Wilson III who can go down low and rebound and bang with P5 bigs.

What we have is a really poised and mature team that limits turnovers and plays good D. But we rely on Sears dribble drives (that work really well except against teams with length and good interior D) and we rely on BVP and Carter being match up nightmares for other teams bigs (which works tremendously well in the MAC but much less so against teams that also have athletic 4s and 5s who can guard on the perimeter).

These are hurdles keeping us from beating good teams.
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GraffZ06
2/10/2022 12:13 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
And the person who needs to step up is Ben Roderick. Case closed. I know he has to be disappointed by his play this year. It’s been stunning how bad it is offensively. Hopefully he finds the magic heading into March.
It really stinks and is truly unfair to pin it all on one kid. I feel bad for BRod. But, you're not wrong. When it comes to what this team needs/is currently lacking combined with skill sets of guys available. It's all Roderick. I'd add DW3 if he were able to get healthy but that ship has sailed.
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/10/2022 10:20 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
And the person who needs to step up is Ben Roderick. Case closed. I know he has to be disappointed by his play this year. It’s been stunning how bad it is offensively. Hopefully he finds the magic heading into March.
It really stinks and is truly unfair to pin it all on one kid. I feel bad for BRod. But, you're not wrong. When it comes to what this team needs/is currently lacking combined with skill sets of guys available. It's all Roderick. I'd add DW3 if he were able to get healthy but that ship has sailed.
I would also bring Miles Brown into this equation. What exactly does he add to this offense? I know his situation is slightly different because we weren't expecting huge offensive output but he still plays 30+ minutes of the game. As others have pointed out, he was a high scorer coming out of high school, as was Ben. I don't see anything in the stat line that screams 30+ minutes plus the start.

I hate to pick on individuals, I really do but we have holes that are gashed wide open against equal or better competition and I think its fair to discuss as fans.
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FearLeon
2/10/2022 11:32 AM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
We'll continue to struggle against better competition until someone else steps up.
And the person who needs to step up is Ben Roderick. Case closed. I know he has to be disappointed by his play this year. It’s been stunning how bad it is offensively. Hopefully he finds the magic heading into March.
It really stinks and is truly unfair to pin it all on one kid. I feel bad for BRod. But, you're not wrong. When it comes to what this team needs/is currently lacking combined with skill sets of guys available. It's all Roderick. I'd add DW3 if he were able to get healthy but that ship has sailed.
I would also bring Miles Brown into this equation. What exactly does he add to this offense? I know his situation is slightly different because we weren't expecting huge offensive output but he still plays 30+ minutes of the game. As others have pointed out, he was a high scorer coming out of high school, as was Ben. I don't see anything in the stat line that screams 30+ minutes plus the start.

I hate to pick on individuals, I really do but we have holes that are gashed wide open against equal or better competition and I think its fair to discuss as fans.
Absolutely fair. That's why with the offensive struggles of Roderick and Brown, I wish we could could magically have AJ Brown and Elmore James on this year's bench. Just need to be patient. Boals is going to have many options next year.
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Victory
2/10/2022 12:47 PM
This is my non-expert opinion. I am certainly not a basketball coach. I think that if I told you last May that Preston would declare, Wilson would tear is ACL during the Summer, McDay would miss nearly the entire season with personal leave, and Roderick would be shooting 3's at a clip in the mid-20's that you would be stunned, I mean just flabbergasted, that we are 19-4. Then after knowing that, If you watched this team play a typical 20 minutes you would still be hard pressed to believe it. That's especially true if nobody had told you how bad the bottom half of the MAC turned out to be with respect to what we consider normal.

I think we have good ball movement and team passing even though assist totals are down from last year with one of the best passers in the country now in the NBA, but we are not spectacular here.

We ae OK at knocking down our open shots. Not really too bad or good here.

We are not very physical at all. We don't block many shots or rebound all that well. Though we are a far from awful rebounding team.

We find ways to get to the line and are a good free throw shooting team.

We are good at not turning the ball over.

We are good at forcing turnovers even though we don't press very much.

We are good on the ball and denying passes. I suspect teams are shooting well below their average against us.

In spite of the last two, we don't put teams on the line that much.

As noted in another thread by Andrew Ruck, we almost never play close games but we also never totally crush teams either.

The result of this is about the most mundane, unspectacular looking 19-4 that you could almost ever be.
Last Edited: 2/10/2022 1:53:35 PM by Victory
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FearLeon
2/10/2022 12:50 PM
Victory wrote:expand_more
The result of this is about the most mundane, unspectacular looking 19-4 that you could almost ever be.
Could not be a more true statement. Amazing how different 20-3 with just one win over Toledo looks. I'm not complaining at all (especially with the Preston, Wilson, McDay developments), but this is a fair and smart take.
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Recovering Journalist
2/10/2022 1:14 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
The result of this is about the most mundane, unspectacular looking 19-4 that you could almost ever be.
Could not be a more true statement. Amazing how different 20-3 with just one win over Toledo looks. I'm not complaining at all (especially with the Preston, Wilson, McDay developments), but this is a fair and smart take.
I'm not sure there's any world where Ohio basketball fans have a right to feel blase about a 19-4 record, no matter how it was compiled. Even after Toledo asserted its dominance over Ohio, we should all be doing backflips over 19-4 any year - and probably more so this year.

Think of where we were when Preston declared for the draft. Sears was promising but largely unproven. No Carter. No Schmock. No assurance that incoming freshmen would contribute at all. A team approaching 20 wins before Valentine's Day is something we'd all have taken.

The mission is clear until Cleveland: Hold the two seed like grim death and hope you catch fire for three games. More or less the same as it ever was.
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FearLeon
2/10/2022 1:25 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
The result of this is about the most mundane, unspectacular looking 19-4 that you could almost ever be.
Could not be a more true statement. Amazing how different 20-3 with just one win over Toledo looks. I'm not complaining at all (especially with the Preston, Wilson, McDay developments), but this is a fair and smart take.
I'm not sure there's any world where Ohio basketball fans have a right to feel blase about a 19-4 record, no matter how it was compiled. Even after Toledo asserted its dominance over Ohio, we should all be doing backflips over 19-4 any year - and probably more so this year.

Think of where we were when Preston declared for the draft. Sears was promising but largely unproven. No Carter. No Schmock. No assurance that incoming freshmen would contribute at all. A team approaching 20 wins before Valentine's Day is something we'd all have taken.

The mission is clear until Cleveland: Hold the two seed like grim death and hope you catch fire for three games. More or less the same as it ever was.
Agree....as I said...zero complaints here at 19-4. All I'm saying is how different the feeling is if we just split with Toledo.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/10/2022 1:29 PM
This board went from 10 year contract for Boals so that he has the flexibility to not take the first P5 offer he gets and can wait until the next Sweet 16 run to choose to "mundane 19-4 record" awfully quickly.

Winning basketball games matters, and this team has been the most consistent OU team I can remember in my time following the program. The peak may not be as high as some other teams could reach, but the median quality of play is as high as any team I can remember. That's a recipe to win games, and the sign of a strong program.
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Victory
2/10/2022 1:38 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
The result of this is about the most mundane, unspectacular looking 19-4 that you could almost ever be.
Could not be a more true statement. Amazing how different 20-3 with just one win over Toledo looks. I'm not complaining at all (especially with the Preston, Wilson, McDay developments), but this is a fair and smart take.
I'm not sure there's any world where Ohio basketball fans have a right to feel blase about a 19-4 record, no matter how it was compiled. Even after Toledo asserted its dominance over Ohio, we should all be doing backflips over 19-4 any year - and probably more so this year.

Think of where we were when Preston declared for the draft. Sears was promising but largely unproven. No Carter. No Schmock. No assurance that incoming freshmen would contribute at all. A team approaching 20 wins before Valentine's Day is something we'd all have taken.

The mission is clear until Cleveland: Hold the two seed like grim death and hope you catch fire for three games. More or less the same as it ever was.
I am not complaining about it at all. I am very happy about it especially given that we found a way to do it without our best player passer, and leader, our best rebounder and leading scorer, and our best defender from last season when we didn't expect to lose any of them. We have found a way. That's the best way to say it. Most of this is fundamentally sound stuff like hitting free throws, high turnover margin, good defense... I think that it doesn't pop out at you after watching for a half at though if you were not an Ohio fan. That's what I was pointing out. We are not out there dunking, blocking shot, or hitting crazy numbers of three pointers, etc. I definitely was not complaining though.
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Victory
2/10/2022 1:43 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
This board went from 10 year contract for Boals so that he has the flexibility to not take the first P5 offer he gets and can wait until the next Sweet 16 run to choose to "mundane 19-4 record" awfully quickly.

Winning basketball games matters, and this team has been the most consistent OU team I can remember in my time following the program. The peak may not be as high as some other teams could reach, but the median quality of play is as high as any team I can remember. That's a recipe to win games, and the sign of a strong program.
I think people are taking what I said wrong. I was pointing out how we are going about doing it was unspectacular looking. There isn't really anything wrong with winning without ally-oops and such. It is just going to take a person who is not familiar with Ohio basketball to figure out exactly how we have gone about winning in less spectacular looking workman like fashion. I am not complaining about it. Really, I meant the opposite. We have found a way unexpectedly down three starters from last season.

I am certainly in favor of extending Boals if we can do that without breaking the bank. I was also on of the most vocal in pointing out that paying him too much might not be the best use of resources just because the "money is there". But I think one of the reasons we are winning is good coaching. The longer we can keep Jeff Boals the better.
Last Edited: 2/10/2022 1:48:16 PM by Victory
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