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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Colin Granger
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OhioCatFan
3/21/2022 6:32 PM
One team I watched in the tournament had what they called, their "Iron Five," who played most of the game. The announcers made a big deal about how they very seldom substituted. This team -- a real blue blood of college basketball -- is still going strong in the tournament. The name of this team? Duke!

BTW, the term Iron Five, I believe, was stolen from the 1963 Loyola Ramblers National Championship team. Its coach, George Ireland, a close personal friend of our own Jim Snyder, said he believed that "starters" should be "finishers."
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
3/21/2022 7:13 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
One team I watched in the tournament had what they called, their "Iron Five," who played most of the game. The announcers made a big deal about how they very seldom substituted. This team -- a real blue blood of college basketball -- is still going strong in the tournament. The name of this team? Duke!

BTW, the term Iron Five, I believe, was stolen from the 1963 Loyola Ramblers National Championship team. Its coach, George Ireland, a close personal friend of our own Jim Snyder, said he believed that "starters" should be "finishers."
Even Duke had 8 guys who played in 30+ games average 10+ minutes per game. We had 6 meet those thresholds. Towns averaged 10+ minutes but only played in 26 games, and Clayton averaged 9.8 across 33 games.

And in both cases, their minutes decreased down the stretch. There were 6 players in Boals' last two freshman classes, and only 1 saw the court in meaningful games this year.
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BillyTheCat
3/21/2022 9:27 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
One team I watched in the tournament had what they called, their "Iron Five," who played most of the game. The announcers made a big deal about how they very seldom substituted. This team -- a real blue blood of college basketball -- is still going strong in the tournament. The name of this team? Duke!

BTW, the term Iron Five, I believe, was stolen from the 1963 Loyola Ramblers National Championship team. Its coach, George Ireland, a close personal friend of our own Jim Snyder, said he believed that "starters" should be "finishers."
Even Duke had 8 guys who played in 30+ games average 10+ minutes per game. We had 6 meet those thresholds. Towns averaged 10+ minutes but only played in 26 games, and Clayton averaged 9.8 across 33 games.

And in both cases, their minutes decreased down the stretch. There were 6 players in Boals' last two freshman classes, and only 1 saw the court in meaningful games this year.
Does that mean we were better than Duke? Asking for a friend.
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OUVan
3/22/2022 2:04 PM
I thought the Iron Five was UNC
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Cellis033
3/22/2022 2:09 PM
Granger has been an interesting situation this year. I love the guy a lot and the energy he brings but I was thinking he would rotate in every now and then to give a Carter a break but he only really came out during garbage time. This might sound overly optimistic, but I hope he gets more chances next year. Yes, he was there somewhat freshman year but I really don't think he's gotten much court time. I can potentially see him redshirting and shaping to be the replacement for DW3 down the road.
Last Edited: 3/22/2022 2:11:26 PM by Cellis033
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greencat
3/22/2022 3:09 PM
Cellis033 wrote:expand_more
Granger has been an interesting situation this year. I love the guy a lot and the energy he brings but I was thinking he would rotate in every now and then to give a Carter a break but he only really came out during garbage time. This might sound overly optimistic, but I hope he gets more chances next year. Yes, he was there somewhat freshman year but I really don't think he's gotten much court time. I can potentially see him redshirting and shaping to be the replacement for DW3 down the road.
Granger replace DW??

I love your optimism, however it doesn't seem grounded in reality.

Not all big men are equally skilled.
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FearLeon
3/22/2022 5:18 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Granger has been an interesting situation this year. I love the guy a lot and the energy he brings but I was thinking he would rotate in every now and then to give a Carter a break but he only really came out during garbage time. This might sound overly optimistic, but I hope he gets more chances next year. Yes, he was there somewhat freshman year but I really don't think he's gotten much court time. I can potentially see him redshirting and shaping to be the replacement for DW3 down the road.
Granger replace DW??

I love your optimism, however it doesn't seem grounded in reality.

Not all big men are equally skilled.
+1

I stand by my original statement. If he wasn't ready to play this year with DW3 out for the entire season, then when????
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Mike Johnson
3/22/2022 6:28 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
One team I watched in the tournament had what they called, their "Iron Five," who played most of the game. The announcers made a big deal about how they very seldom substituted. This team -- a real blue blood of college basketball -- is still going strong in the tournament. The name of this team? Duke!

BTW, the term Iron Five, I believe, was stolen from the 1963 Loyola Ramblers National Championship team. Its coach, George Ireland, a close personal friend of our own Jim Snyder, said he believed that "starters" should be "finishers."
Perhaps because Ohio played Loyola a few (?) times during that era, I became a fan of the Ramblers. Their starting 5: Ron Miller 21.9 ppg, Les Hunter 21.4, John Egan 18.5, Vic Rouse 15.6, Jim Coleman 7.5. Add those up and you have starters averaging 84.3 ppg. Six bench players totaled 12.1 ppg.
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OhioCatFan
3/22/2022 7:18 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
One team I watched in the tournament had what they called, their "Iron Five," who played most of the game. The announcers made a big deal about how they very seldom substituted. This team -- a real blue blood of college basketball -- is still going strong in the tournament. The name of this team? Duke!

BTW, the term Iron Five, I believe, was stolen from the 1963 Loyola Ramblers National Championship team. Its coach, George Ireland, a close personal friend of our own Jim Snyder, said he believed that "starters" should be "finishers."
Perhaps because Ohio played Loyola a few (?) times during that era, I became a fan of the Ramblers. Their starting 5: Ron Miller 21.9 ppg, Les Hunter 21.4, John Egan 18.5, Vic Rouse 15.6, Jim Coleman 7.5. Add those up and you have starters averaging 84.3 ppg. Six bench players totaled 12.1 ppg.
Yes, we did play them a lot in that era. In fact, I believe one year we actually played them home-and-home in the same year, just like they were a conference team. One bit of trivia from that period is that in their national championship year in 1962-63 only two teams beat them -- the first was a loss to Nate Thurmond's BG squad and the second was a loss on their home court to Wichita State. OHIO lost to them that year, 103-87 at their place.
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Victory
3/23/2022 9:55 AM
I had previously noticed years ago that we played Loyola at least once during nearly every year of Snyder's tenure. I had wondered if this was due to a friendship between the coaches. Thanks for the obscure information.
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Cellis033
3/23/2022 10:05 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Granger has been an interesting situation this year. I love the guy a lot and the energy he brings but I was thinking he would rotate in every now and then to give a Carter a break but he only really came out during garbage time. This might sound overly optimistic, but I hope he gets more chances next year. Yes, he was there somewhat freshman year but I really don't think he's gotten much court time. I can potentially see him redshirting and shaping to be the replacement for DW3 down the road.
Granger replace DW??

I love your optimism, however it doesn't seem grounded in reality.

Not all big men are equally skilled.
+1

I stand by my original statement. If he wasn't ready to play this year with DW3 out for the entire season, then when????
True, and again we don't really know what happened that made him not start. Makes me wonder if Hathaway will be the guy to break out but I don't think he's a center type player. I know it sounds overly optimistic and not grounded in reality but I believe it could happen, but I'm looking to see what will happen next year, either he is a rotation player or if he goes into the portal.
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OhioCatFan
3/23/2022 10:23 AM
Victory wrote:expand_more
I had previously noticed years ago that we played Loyola at least once during nearly every year of Snyder's tenure. I had wondered if this was due to a friendship between the coaches. Thanks for the obscure information.
I remember one story that was printed in the local papers in 1963 when Loyola won the national championship that illustrates this point. Snyder was present and after the win he goes up and congratulates Ireland on winning the national championship and, according to Snyder, the first words out of Ireland's mouth was to ask Jim if OHIO had yet signed its contract for next year's game with Loyola.
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FearLeon
3/24/2022 4:41 PM
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
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Taiwan BC
3/24/2022 7:04 PM
Sorry to hear it… He was literally and figuratively our biggest cheerleader and he brought energy to the bench and to those on the court. I have no doubt he will be a good teammate wherever he goes and will hopefully get a chance to play more and show people what he can do on the floor….

Go Bobcats!
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GraffZ06
3/25/2022 12:55 AM
Taiwan BC wrote:expand_more
Sorry to hear it… He was literally and figuratively our biggest cheerleader and he brought energy to the bench and to those on the court. I have no doubt he will be a good teammate wherever he goes and will hopefully get a chance to play more and show people what he can do on the floor….

Go Bobcats!
Agreed. Every good team needs a guy like Colin Granger on it. Tremendous for culture and energy. He gave us some really good minutes in the NCAA last year. Really sad and puzzling that it never translated to more minutes or success on the court.
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Bobcat1998
3/25/2022 8:48 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Sorry to hear it… He was literally and figuratively our biggest cheerleader and he brought energy to the bench and to those on the court. I have no doubt he will be a good teammate wherever he goes and will hopefully get a chance to play more and show people what he can do on the floor….

Go Bobcats!
Agreed. Every good team needs a guy like Colin Granger on it. Tremendous for culture and energy. He gave us some really good minutes in the NCAA last year. Really sad and puzzling that it never translated to more minutes or success on the court.
It's interesting because we all saw this coming and while we've had plenty of good dudes transfer, this one feels different. One of my favorite memories from our NCAA run was when BVP hit that second 3 in Hauser's face and Virginia took a timeout and Gus Johnson yells "It feels like some March Madness" and you see Granger sprinting from the bench to celebrate. I wish him nothing but the best and really hope he can get some meaningful minutes and just throw guys around in the post.
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oldkatz
3/25/2022 9:09 AM
I always liked his enthusiasm and energy supporting the action on the court. As was mentioned, he seemed a good teammate and brought a vocal dynamic. I am sorry to see him go.
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OU_Country
3/25/2022 11:18 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
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FearLeon
3/25/2022 1:56 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
Not meant to be harsh, but it's just reality. We criticized swings and misses with previous staffs and this one is not exempt. I wish it worked out, but it didn't. Incredibly telling that he could not see the floor with DW3 out and Carter basically playing on one leg. I hope he can play at this level of division-one basketball, but based on what we saw last year and nothing from this year...I have serious doubts. He's somewhere in that McMurray/Garreri mix. We have to limit the McMurray/Garreri/Granger misses moving forward. I get everyone
won't be a home-run, but with some of these recruits there still needs to be some doubles hitters in there where they can contribute over a 3-4 year stretch. The group of players I just mentioned did not.

Wish CG well and I hope he proves me and others on this board wrong.
Last Edited: 3/25/2022 2:35:15 PM by FearLeon
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OU_Country
3/25/2022 2:30 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
Not meant to be harsh, but it's just reality. We criticized swings and misses with previous staffs and this one is not exempt. I wish it worked out, but it didn't. Incredibly telling that he could not see the floor with DW3 out and Carter basically playing on one leg. I hope he can play at this level of division-one basketball, but based on what we saw last year and nothing from this year...I have serious doubts. Wish him well and hope he proves me and others on this board wrong.
I know you're not meaning to be harsh. I just see that phrase that way sometimes. Recruiting is hard without a high-end crystal ball. 😂


There are two ways to look at his not seeing the floor, in my opinion:

First, as a fill in for either Carter or Vander Plas, his game is wildly different, whereas I would say Clayton is more of a match/fit to their games, thus making AJ more useful in the way this team played in 21-22'.

Second, Ezumah appears to have passed him quickly at least on D. At that point he's 5th man on the chart for post players. I don't see why he can't still play D1, just not in Athens where he'll still be at best the 4th man in the rotation.
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Jeff McKinney
3/25/2022 2:38 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
Agree.
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FearLeon
3/25/2022 2:39 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Officially in portal. No surprise. Wish him much success moving forward. A swing and miss for Boals and staff.
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
Not meant to be harsh, but it's just reality. We criticized swings and misses with previous staffs and this one is not exempt. I wish it worked out, but it didn't. Incredibly telling that he could not see the floor with DW3 out and Carter basically playing on one leg. I hope he can play at this level of division-one basketball, but based on what we saw last year and nothing from this year...I have serious doubts. Wish him well and hope he proves me and others on this board wrong.
I don't see why he can't still play D1, just not in Athens where he'll still be at best the 4th man in the rotation.
Like you said...recruiting is not an exact science and I totally agree with you there. But look at McMurray/Garreri/Foster. Man....those three can't play at this level and now they are in D2 land or worse. And I think Granger is heading down the same path. Nothing wrong with that, but we need to stop taking fliers on these type of guys. But again..not an exact science...I get it. Glad I'm not a coach and just a fan.
Last Edited: 3/25/2022 2:45:06 PM by FearLeon
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OU_Country
3/25/2022 2:52 PM
For the sake of this discussion, I'm leaving out Gareri, and McMurray because they aren't Boals' staff recruits.

Foster and Granger are similar to me in the sense that they initially showed promise and then for whatever reason, fell out of the rotation. I know Nolan had some sort of injury last year that played a part.

Because of his size, I think Colin can play D1. Where? Who knows? Maybe the OVC, A-sun, or Big South have a school he's a fit for that's closer to home for his family to see him play. That would be my wish for a kid like that.

Increasingly, to be competitive with the top of a mid-major conference, I think about roughly half the recruiting process has to be transfer oriented. I don't like it for the reasons I noted above, but I think it's close to the truth "these days".
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Cellis033
3/28/2022 8:29 AM
Just ran into Granger this past weekend at High Fest, shame he is leaving but totally understand why he is. But boy, hilarious guy to be around.
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Recovering Journalist
3/28/2022 9:04 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Swing and a miss being used to describe recruiting 18 year old kids has always felt harsh to me. Recruiting out of high school at the mid-major level is about as inexact of a science as there might be short of forecasting the weather. It's actually why I've become a fan of balancing classes with at least one transfer that's shown to be game ready every year. Honestly, it's why Kent, Akron, and Toledo might have been better this year. Unfortunately (to me), it's the new reality of college hoops. It's unfortunate to me because one of the things I like best about college hoops is watching the progression through the 4-5 years a player is on campus.
I don't think there's a "might" about it. Those teams were better and the recruiting failures of the last few years were painfully obvious as Ohio faded down the stretch. Getting four-year guys is still the ideal, but they unequivocally have to perform if this is going to be a great program. When gaps inevitably arise, you have to find and attract great transfers. Ohio's done that before but clearly needed more of it last season and based on the PT younger guys got, Boals better find some transfer gold if he's hoping to stay competitive.
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