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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Jim Christian
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mid70sbobcat
6/23/2022 11:42 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.
And Christian lasted 7 years before back in the MAC versus your idol Groce, who lasted just 5. I get it, you hated JC and Saul and worshipped Groce and Boals.
Don't hate anyone, just know when somebody isn't the right fit. Who on this board wouldn't take Boals and Groce over Christian and Saul? Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

The highlight of the Christian Era for me was going to Memphis to watch Ohio's starting 5 turn their backs to JC during a timeout. Thought it was incredibly odd at the time and then it made more sense when you learned how he treated several players. Hopefully, he has the same relationship with Sincere Carry.
So you basically admit it .. since you claim Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8 it was because of immature, selfish players who couldn't deal with a coach who imposed more discipline than Groce. Got it, thanks.
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mid70sbobcat
6/23/2022 11:55 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.
And Christian lasted 7 years before back in the MAC versus your idol Groce, who lasted just 5. I get it, you hated JC and Saul and worshipped Groce and Boals.
Don't hate anyone, just know when somebody isn't the right fit. Who on this board wouldn't take Boals and Groce over Christian and Saul? Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

The highlight of the Christian Era for me was going to Memphis to watch Ohio's starting 5 turn their backs to JC during a timeout. Thought it was incredibly odd at the time and then it made more sense when you learned how he treated several players. Hopefully, he has the same relationship with Sincere Carry.
And just so we're talking facts:

Jim Christian

Ohio Bobcats (Mid-American Conference) (2012–2014)
2012–13 Ohio 24–10 14–2 T–1st (East) NIT First Round
2013–14 Ohio 25–12 11–7 3rd (East) CIT Quarterfinal
Ohio: 49–22 (.690) 25–9 (.735)

John Groce:

2008–09 Ohio 15–17 7–9 6th (East)
2009–10 Ohio 22–15 7–9 5th (East) NCAA Division I Second Round
2010–11 Ohio 19–16 9–7 3rd (East) CIT Quarterfinal
2011–12 Ohio 29–8 11–5 3rd (East) NCAA Division I Sweet 16
Ohio: 85–56 (.603) 34–30 (.531)

Overall Christian 69 percent versus Groce at 60. MAC Christian 73+ percent versus Groce at a mediocre 53 percent.

I'll admit Groce got "hot" for a few weeks in 2012. And where is he today? Ohhhh, Akron. And I'd bet money Christian lasting 7 years at BC versus Groce 5 at Illinois, is better off today financially.
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bornacatfan
6/24/2022 7:55 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=mid70sbobcat] [QUOTE=FearLeon] Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.

I'll admit Groce got "hot" for a few weeks in 2012. And where is he today? Ohhhh, Akron. And I'd bet money Christian lasting 7 years at BC versus Groce 5 at Illinois, is better off today financially.
While this statement is true, it has to be taken with the fact that Coaches like Christian, Manning and many others were held onto during the pandemic to see where finances and fanbases were headed. Following the 2021 season in the bubble the axe finally fell after hanging in place for 2 seasons. Could not fire them with the post season postponed and then the next year with COVID testing and challenges gave a bunch of coaches a short reprieve.
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FearLeon
6/24/2022 8:18 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.
And Christian lasted 7 years before back in the MAC versus your idol Groce, who lasted just 5. I get it, you hated JC and Saul and worshipped Groce and Boals.
Don't hate anyone, just know when somebody isn't the right fit. Who on this board wouldn't take Boals and Groce over Christian and Saul? Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

The highlight of the Christian Era for me was going to Memphis to watch Ohio's starting 5 turn their backs to JC during a timeout. Thought it was incredibly odd at the time and then it made more sense when you learned how he treated several players. Hopefully, he has the same relationship with Sincere Carry.
So you basically admit it .. since you claim Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8 it was because of immature, selfish players who couldn't deal with a coach who imposed more discipline than Groce. Got it, thanks.
Where did I ever say Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8? Please find that wording in any of my Christian posts and please report back to us. Christian failed because he arguably had the greatest Ohio team handed to him and he could not take them to the NCAA Tournament. And if you looked at JC's resume, it was something he did infrequently as a head coach before he got the Ohio job.

And you can rave about "JC's regular season co-championship" all you want, but ask yourself this. What do Ohio fans or college basketball fans in general remember more when it comes to the history of Ohio basketball? That "JC regular season co-championship" or Leon Williams tip-in against Buffalo or Ohio's NCAA Tournament wins over Virginia or Georgetown or Michigan or South Florida or DJ Cooper's shot from half-court hitting the rim against North Carolina that would have sent the Bobcats to the Elite 8? Sorry...out of those 6 things...that "world famous JC regular season co-championship" would come in at a distant #6. I mean Ohio fans remember Tommy's three to beat Miami at the convo more than that "JC regular season co-championship". And deservingly so.

Bottom line....the MAC regular season championship isn't what matters. Obviously, it's crazy that regular season means nothing, but that's the way it works in the MAC. Go ask Todd K or any Rockets fan if they'd rather have back-to-back regular season MAC championship banners or MAC tournament championship banners hanging from the rafters?

You can have Jimmy C's sterling 73.5% winning percentage in two years at Ohio. If that makes you feel good, have at it. What JC's two years in Athens did was help put in motion Ohio basketball being set back 6 years.

I'll take Groce and Boals accomplishments at Ohio over Jimmy C any day of the week. As would probably 99.9% of Ohio basketball fans on this board.
Last Edited: 6/24/2022 11:32:33 AM by FearLeon
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Taiwan BC
6/24/2022 9:09 AM
In my humble opinion, Jim seems like he would be a good coach for professional players. The kind that are fully or almost fully formed and need a hard nosed coach to push them. For the college game, if we are being true to the idea of not only winning games but, producing productive and well rounded human beings, he may not be the best fit. At the college level, I think a coach should be equal parts perspirational and inspirational. Cheesy yes, but I think it's what our school should be doing. BTW, Coach Boals is quite good at this.

GO BOBCATS!
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100%Cat
6/24/2022 12:12 PM
I could be wrong (probably/usually am), but I don't think any of us would take Christian over Boals or Groce. Speaking only for myself, the only real point I was trying to make was JC's time here wasn't all negative. Some folks here choose to ignore the positives that happened while he was here, and I think that's pretty unfair.
Last Edited: 6/24/2022 12:12:27 PM by 100%Cat
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Recovering Journalist
6/24/2022 1:12 PM
The Jim Christian debate feels like a longer-running saga than the TOS meme. I've said my piece on it in a dozen other threads and I'm staying out this time because it's obvious that opinions here are fully entrenched on both sides. There's plenty of intractable polarization elsewhere in our lives.
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El Gato Roberto
6/24/2022 1:41 PM
I’m not going to be popular with this view, but I’ll take TOS and his single miracle trip to the dance, heart-stopping win over Buffalo, and near-miracle comeback over Florida, over JC’s co-championship and epic choke in the NIT. Plus “Ohio, Ohio, and Ohio” is right up there with “what is Buffalo sucks”…good times.
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FearLeon
6/24/2022 1:53 PM
El Gato Roberto wrote:expand_more
I’m not going to be popular with this view, but I’ll take TOS and his single miracle trip to the dance, heart-stopping win over Buffalo, and near-miracle comeback over Florida, over JC’s co-championship and epic choke in the NIT. Plus “Ohio, Ohio, and Ohio” is right up there with “what is Buffalo sucks”…good times.
+1

I should have had that Florida NCAA game on the list. I was there in the arena. The catching of the air-ball for the lay-up late in the game still haunts.

Great take.
Last Edited: 6/24/2022 1:57:54 PM by FearLeon
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100%Cat
6/24/2022 2:16 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I’m not going to be popular with this view, but I’ll take TOS and his single miracle trip to the dance, heart-stopping win over Buffalo, and near-miracle comeback over Florida, over JC’s co-championship and epic choke in the NIT. Plus “Ohio, Ohio, and Ohio” is right up there with “what is Buffalo sucks”…good times.
+1

I should have had that Florida NCAA game on the list. I was there in the arena. The catching of the air-ball for the lay-up late in the game still haunts.

Great take.
Don't forget TOS' nationally televised win at Chapel Hill with Brandon Hunter and Steve Esterkamp.
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El Gato Roberto
6/24/2022 3:02 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I’m not going to be popular with this view, but I’ll take TOS and his single miracle trip to the dance, heart-stopping win over Buffalo, and near-miracle comeback over Florida, over JC’s co-championship and epic choke in the NIT. Plus “Ohio, Ohio, and Ohio” is right up there with “what is Buffalo sucks”…good times.
+1

I should have had that Florida NCAA game on the list. I was there in the arena. The catching of the air-ball for the lay-up late in the game still haunts.

Great take.
Don't forget TOS' nationally televised win at Chapel Hill with Brandon Hunter and Steve Esterkamp.
While "life on the road in the MAC" and his complete inability to keep, recruit and coach point guards got the best of him...That 2005 team sure was fun. They had a habit of coming back. They came back from 20 vs Buffalo and did it again vs Florida in the dance. ...2005 team was one of my favorites, for sure.
Last Edited: 6/24/2022 3:04:12 PM by El Gato Roberto
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RSBobcat
6/26/2022 12:11 AM
Obc2 wrote:expand_more
Im nobody from nowhere but JC is my least favorite Bobcat coach alltime.

And i was pretty stoked after his hire announcement.

Hes a big ole poop sammich in my book. I take no pleasure if he implodes at Kent, they deserve better....
Agree completely. Before his first season started I had a chat with him at a football game tailgate - he was TOTALLY Non Engaging and pretty much a dick to me.....
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mid70sbobcat
6/26/2022 12:30 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.
And Christian lasted 7 years before back in the MAC versus your idol Groce, who lasted just 5. I get it, you hated JC and Saul and worshipped Groce and Boals.
Don't hate anyone, just know when somebody isn't the right fit. Who on this board wouldn't take Boals and Groce over Christian and Saul? Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

The highlight of the Christian Era for me was going to Memphis to watch Ohio's starting 5 turn their backs to JC during a timeout. Thought it was incredibly odd at the time and then it made more sense when you learned how he treated several players. Hopefully, he has the same relationship with Sincere Carry.
So you basically admit it .. since you claim Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8 it was because of immature, selfish players who couldn't deal with a coach who imposed more discipline than Groce. Got it, thanks.
Where did I ever say Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8? Please find that wording in any of my Christian posts and please report back to us. Christian failed because he arguably had the greatest Ohio team handed to him and he could not take them to the NCAA Tournament. And if you looked at JC's resume, it was something he did infrequently as a head coach before he got the Ohio job.

And you can rave about "JC's regular season co-championship" all you want, but ask yourself this. What do Ohio fans or college basketball fans in general remember more when it comes to the history of Ohio basketball? That "JC regular season co-championship" or Leon Williams tip-in against Buffalo or Ohio's NCAA Tournament wins over Virginia or Georgetown or Michigan or South Florida or DJ Cooper's shot from half-court hitting the rim against North Carolina that would have sent the Bobcats to the Elite 8? Sorry...out of those 6 things...that "world famous JC regular season co-championship" would come in at a distant #6. I mean Ohio fans remember Tommy's three to beat Miami at the convo more than that "JC regular season co-championship". And deservingly so.

Bottom line....the MAC regular season championship isn't what matters. Obviously, it's crazy that regular season means nothing, but that's the way it works in the MAC. Go ask Todd K or any Rockets fan if they'd rather have back-to-back regular season MAC championship banners or MAC tournament championship banners hanging from the rafters?

You can have Jimmy C's sterling 73.5% winning percentage in two years at Ohio. If that makes you feel good, have at it. What JC's two years in Athens did was help put in motion Ohio basketball being set back 6 years.

I'll take Groce and Boals accomplishments at Ohio over Jimmy C any day of the week. As would probably 99.9% of Ohio basketball fans on this board.
Haha. Avoid the focus of my post. You said the team turned their back on Christian. Right? Because he was different than Groce? Because he was more disciplined? So was Bobby Knight a bad coach too?

PS Boals has recruits leaving at a higher rate than Saul. Just FYI.

And sorry, I prefer to focus on FACTS. Have a good day. Keep your blood pressure down.
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mid70sbobcat
6/26/2022 12:34 AM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Im nobody from nowhere but JC is my least favorite Bobcat coach alltime.

And i was pretty stoked after his hire announcement.

Hes a big ole poop sammich in my book. I take no pleasure if he implodes at Kent, they deserve better....
Agree completely. Before his first season started I had a chat with him at a football game tailgate - he was TOTALLY Non Engaging and pretty much a dick to me.....

LOL.

So he has a personality you didn't care for. That makes him a bad hire?
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FearLeon
6/26/2022 6:31 PM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Said it as soon as he got the BC job that he'd be back in the MAC in five years. I was off by three years. This is great news for Ohio. Let him make players in another MAC program miserable. One of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history. Ohio just got better today by Kent State hiring this guy.
And Christian lasted 7 years before back in the MAC versus your idol Groce, who lasted just 5. I get it, you hated JC and Saul and worshipped Groce and Boals.
Don't hate anyone, just know when somebody isn't the right fit. Who on this board wouldn't take Boals and Groce over Christian and Saul? Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

The highlight of the Christian Era for me was going to Memphis to watch Ohio's starting 5 turn their backs to JC during a timeout. Thought it was incredibly odd at the time and then it made more sense when you learned how he treated several players. Hopefully, he has the same relationship with Sincere Carry.
So you basically admit it .. since you claim Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8 it was because of immature, selfish players who couldn't deal with a coach who imposed more discipline than Groce. Got it, thanks.
Where did I ever say Christian failed by not getting us to the Elite 8? Please find that wording in any of my Christian posts and please report back to us. Christian failed because he arguably had the greatest Ohio team handed to him and he could not take them to the NCAA Tournament. And if you looked at JC's resume, it was something he did infrequently as a head coach before he got the Ohio job.

And you can rave about "JC's regular season co-championship" all you want, but ask yourself this. What do Ohio fans or college basketball fans in general remember more when it comes to the history of Ohio basketball? That "JC regular season co-championship" or Leon Williams tip-in against Buffalo or Ohio's NCAA Tournament wins over Virginia or Georgetown or Michigan or South Florida or DJ Cooper's shot from half-court hitting the rim against North Carolina that would have sent the Bobcats to the Elite 8? Sorry...out of those 6 things...that "world famous JC regular season co-championship" would come in at a distant #6. I mean Ohio fans remember Tommy's three to beat Miami at the convo more than that "JC regular season co-championship". And deservingly so.

Bottom line....the MAC regular season championship isn't what matters. Obviously, it's crazy that regular season means nothing, but that's the way it works in the MAC. Go ask Todd K or any Rockets fan if they'd rather have back-to-back regular season MAC championship banners or MAC tournament championship banners hanging from the rafters?

You can have Jimmy C's sterling 73.5% winning percentage in two years at Ohio. If that makes you feel good, have at it. What JC's two years in Athens did was help put in motion Ohio basketball being set back 6 years.

I'll take Groce and Boals accomplishments at Ohio over Jimmy C any day of the week. As would probably 99.9% of Ohio basketball fans on this board.
Haha. Avoid the focus of my post. You said the team turned their back on Christian. Right? Because he was different than Groce? Because he was more disciplined? So was Bobby Knight a bad coach too?

PS Boals has recruits leaving at a higher rate than Saul. Just FYI.

And sorry, I prefer to focus on FACTS. Have a good day. Keep your blood pressure down.


I get it...your loyalty to two mediocre/below average head coaches is strong with Saul and Jimmy C. Keep sending those Christmas cards to them each year and wearing your 2012-2013 MAC Regular Season Co-Champions" shirt with pride.

Looking at the comments in this thread it looks like 99% of the folks here have similar views as I do when it comes to your boy Jimmy C. And I'm sure the same can be said about Saul. I prefer to focus on FACTS as well.
Last Edited: 6/27/2022 7:27:55 AM by FearLeon
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OhioCatFan
6/27/2022 10:38 AM
My view on the great past-coach debate:

Saul is a good coach, who had bad luck here, especially in terms of some key injuries. I was not for firing him; however, I do think that Boals is an upgrade.

Jim Christian was a coach who abused his players. He apparently got the most out of them during the regular season by intimidation and fear. However, to win in the post-season one needs to have developed talent during the year and have inspirational coaching during the tournament. JC delivered neither. I was happy to see him go to those proverbial greener pastures.
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ohiocatfan1
6/27/2022 1:28 PM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
Good for JC...right where he belongs...in the shadow of a coach who has done more than him at Kent and about to be destroyed by the Bobcats a few times a year. I will never forgive him for breaking Ivo, for somehow losing Jon Smith's trust enough that Smith didn't play in the postseason his senior year, for not playing Travis Wilkins more, for thinking that Bean Willis was worthy of a scholarship, for never caring about Athens and for WASTING A SWEET 16 TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But who's bitter? Not me? :)
Nailed it.
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shabamon
6/27/2022 2:00 PM
I enjoyed watching the team during both regular seasons while JC was here. The 13/14 team in particular, with a senior Kellogg and junior Ndour, by my observation played with more effort and intensity than any other Ohio team of the past 20 years. I also don't denigrate him for not returning to the Dance with that great senior class in 2013. There was only one MAC team that beat us that year and I'll remind everyone that we beat Akron by just one in the final the previous year. I also care little about a regular season title other than it being the difference between the NIT and CBI/CIT.

I don't know what happened in the doldrums of the program in his tenure aside from what Treg Setty wrote on this board, but it was clear he was a bad energy for this program. His body language towards players when they made a mistake, Setty and Stevie in particular, was offputting. Interesting to me that Stevie still decided to work for JC at Boston College. The likable Jon Smith had had enough of something. Anymore I think his "style" is a dinosaur in college hoops but could still work at the pro level. I think he'd make an effective G-League coach.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/27/2022 2:13 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
My view on the great past-coach debate:

Saul is a good coach, who had bad luck here, especially in terms of some key injuries. I was not for firing him; however, I do think that Boals is an upgrade.

Jim Christian was a coach who abused his players. He apparently got the most out of them during the regular season by intimidation and fear. However, to win in the post-season one needs to have developed talent during the year and have inspirational coaching during the tournament. JC delivered neither. I was happy to see him go to those proverbial greener pastures.
Abuse, huh? Truly baffling to me the accusations people in the crowd with limited knowledge and vantage point are willing to throw out there.

It seems like there's a whole lot of room for nuance here that lives somewhere between Jim Christian is the best coach in the world and Jim Christian failed at OU because he's abusive.

My take:

Jim Christian and John Groce were stylistically quite different, and it's not surprising that a team recruited by Groce didn't mesh well with Christian. And the Sweet 16 team Christian inherited was about 2 inches away from losing to Akron in the MAC Championship game, and anybody taking over a MAC team whose line between success and failure hinges on an NCAA berth is more likely to fail than succeed.

Both Groce and Christian seem like mid-major quality basketball coaches. Both have had the chance to be more, neither has managed to make the most of it. They both have their strengths, both have their weaknesses. Groce had most of his career success at Ohio, so I'm inclined to like him more, but I don't understand why the only option people seem to think is available is to hate one and love the other.

And unless I'm missing something, accusing Christian of abuse seems like a huge stretch. Do you know something the rest of us don't?
Last Edited: 6/27/2022 2:18:47 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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OhioCatFan
6/28/2022 10:12 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
My view on the great past-coach debate:

Saul is a good coach, who had bad luck here, especially in terms of some key injuries. I was not for firing him; however, I do think that Boals is an upgrade.

Jim Christian was a coach who abused his players. He apparently got the most out of them during the regular season by intimidation and fear. However, to win in the post-season one needs to have developed talent during the year and have inspirational coaching during the tournament. JC delivered neither. I was happy to see him go to those proverbial greener pastures.
Abuse, huh? Truly baffling to me the accusations people in the crowd with limited knowledge and vantage point are willing to throw out there.

It seems like there's a whole lot of room for nuance here that lives somewhere between Jim Christian is the best coach in the world and Jim Christian failed at OU because he's abusive.

My take:

Jim Christian and John Groce were stylistically quite different, and it's not surprising that a team recruited by Groce didn't mesh well with Christian. And the Sweet 16 team Christian inherited was about 2 inches away from losing to Akron in the MAC Championship game, and anybody taking over a MAC team whose line between success and failure hinges on an NCAA berth is more likely to fail than succeed.

Both Groce and Christian seem like mid-major quality basketball coaches. Both have had the chance to be more, neither has managed to make the most of it. They both have their strengths, both have their weaknesses. Groce had most of his career success at Ohio, so I'm inclined to like him more, but I don't understand why the only option people seem to think is available is to hate one and love the other.

And unless I'm missing something, accusing Christian of abuse seems like a huge stretch. Do you know something the rest of us don't?
I should have specified verbal and psychological abuse, I wasn't accusing him of of physical abuse of his players. I thought that was understood from the context, but I should have been more specific. I don't think that this is secret knowledge, I'm sure others on this board are privy to the same information.
Last Edited: 6/28/2022 10:13:24 AM by OhioCatFan
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GoCats105
6/28/2022 12:13 PM
Average rent in America is skyrocketing but JC has been living rent free on this site for years.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/28/2022 1:40 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I should have specified verbal and psychological abuse, I wasn't accusing him of of physical abuse of his players. I thought that was understood from the context, but I should have been more specific. I don't think that this is secret knowledge, I'm sure others on this board are privy to the same information.
Even still, feels like quite the accusation.

What did he do that you'd describe as psychological abuse?
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OhioCatFan
6/29/2022 12:30 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I should have specified verbal and psychological abuse, I wasn't accusing him of of physical abuse of his players. I thought that was understood from the context, but I should have been more specific. I don't think that this is secret knowledge, I'm sure others on this board are privy to the same information.
Even still, feels like quite the accusation.

What did he do that you'd describe as psychological abuse?
Though I've heard admittedly second hand information from other folks, Treg Setty's statement about his first-hand experience with JC seems to reveal an MO that's consistent with those other stories:

"My coach, though I believe that he is a good man as we all make mistakes and I'm forever grateful to him for the opportunity to be a Bobcat, would constantly make fun of my antics and threaten me that he would send me home. After one game in particular, he called me into his office (something that happened nearly every game) and slammed a can of Diet Coke on his desk after I closed the door, the beverage exploding out of the seems. He yelled at me profusely telling me that if I didn't get more than three rebounds next game he would 'Kadeem Green' my 'ass' This was another adult in my life who betrayed my trust and hurt me at a level they never understood. . ."

While yelling and screaming is something all coaches do, it would appear from this first-hand testimonial that JC was verbally abusive to Treg, as it left him feeling betrayed. It sounds to me like JC was also playing psychological games with Treg. Positive psychology that motivates is one thing, but this kind of behavior on the part of a coach was certainly not motivating to Treg. He later excelled in spite of it.
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FearLeon
6/29/2022 12:41 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=OhioCatFan]
I should have specified verbal and psychological abuse, I wasn't accusing him of of physical abuse of his players. I thought that was understood from the context, but I should have been more specific. I don't think that this is secret knowledge, I'm sure others on this board are privy to the same information.
He yelled at me profusely telling me that if I didn't get more than three rebounds next game he would 'Kadeem Green' my 'ass' This was another adult in my life who betrayed my trust and hurt me at a level they never understood. . ."


Jimmy C...wonderful human.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/29/2022 6:25 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I should have specified verbal and psychological abuse, I wasn't accusing him of of physical abuse of his players. I thought that was understood from the context, but I should have been more specific. I don't think that this is secret knowledge, I'm sure others on this board are privy to the same information.
Even still, feels like quite the accusation.

What did he do that you'd describe as psychological abuse?
Though I've heard admittedly second hand information from other folks, Treg Setty's statement about his first-hand experience with JC seems to reveal an MO that's consistent with those other stories:

"My coach, though I believe that he is a good man as we all make mistakes and I'm forever grateful to him for the opportunity to be a Bobcat, would constantly make fun of my antics and threaten me that he would send me home. After one game in particular, he called me into his office (something that happened nearly every game) and slammed a can of Diet Coke on his desk after I closed the door, the beverage exploding out of the seems. He yelled at me profusely telling me that if I didn't get more than three rebounds next game he would 'Kadeem Green' my 'ass' This was another adult in my life who betrayed my trust and hurt me at a level they never understood. . ."

While yelling and screaming is something all coaches do, it would appear from this first-hand testimonial that JC was verbally abusive to Treg, as it left him feeling betrayed. It sounds to me like JC was also playing psychological games with Treg. Positive psychology that motivates is one thing, but this kind of behavior on the part of a coach was certainly not motivating to Treg. He later excelled in spite of it.
Not my style of leadership, either. But if that's the behavior we're going to label as abusive, there aren't going to be many college coaches left.

It clearly wasn't the right approach to take with Treg, but words have meaning and labeling that as "psychological abuse" just seems like a stretch.

There's plenty of space to feel like Christian wasn't a good coach, or the right coach for that team, without racing to the extremes.
Last Edited: 6/29/2022 6:25:33 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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