Good stuff CG.

UVa was a .500 team in the ACC in 2002-03, and rated 84th overall by Ken Pomeroy.  We caught them in the midst of a 7 game losing streak that took them out of the running for an at-large berth in the NCAA tournament:

http://kenpom.com/team.php?y=2003&team=Virginia

The UVa and Wisconsin games were leftovers from the Larry Hunter era, I believe, but TOS himself scheduled Providence, DePaul, and Kentucky that year, if memory serves.

I never saw TOS kick or scream once....only pull out little index cards from the breast pocket.

I didn't mean to suggest that TOS scheduled all those games himself, simply that they weren't leftovers scheduled by Larry Hunter like you implied before.

Meanwhile, I can't believe that you are unaware that Providence went to the Final Four in 1987, and an Elite Eight in 1997, which I believe woudl qualify for relevance on the national scene.  More significantly, they were considered the 37th best team in the nation in 2002-03, when we played them, by Ken Pomeroy, clearly making that a quality opponent, and one tougher than all but two of the teams that JG has scheduled (if you want to pick nits about leftovers on the schedule, then Groce doesn't get credit for Xavier or Louisville his first year).  DePaul wasn't quite as strong in 2002-03, coming in only 73rd, but they also have two final fours to their credit, and were a regular national power throughout the early-80s.

Ultimately, though, I fail to understand why we are having this discussion.  The only point I ever made was that TOS played (whether willingly or not) tougher OOC schedules his first three years than Groce has had to face, so therefore a strict comparison of their initial records is not entirely accurate.  Such a comparison is also inaccurate for other reasons as well, such as the fact that TOS undoubtedly inherited stronger teams.  I don't understand why you can't let even a single minimally positive comment about TOS go by without trying to discredit it with issues that are beside the point. 

I think he kicked a trash can over at Toledo too...forgot about those.

You asked when the two schools have been relevant on the national scene.  So I told you.

If you don't think the 27th most difficult non-conference schedule in the country in 2002-03 is a tough schedule (and significantly more difficult than anything Groce has had to face), with games at Providence (#37 that year per Ken Pomeroy), at DePaul (#71), at Wisconsin (#11), and against Kentucky (#2) in Cincinnati, along with a home game versus UVa (#84), then I don't know what to tell you, other than that you simply don't know what you are talking about.

Regardless, this is a pointless argument, as you've once again made a mountain out of a mole hill for no good reason.  We get it, you hate Tim O'Shea.  Bravo.  I'm finished here.