Really? I had long wondered why folks make you a whipping boy but I take offense at this.

My years of watching basketball and talking to Coaches and Players all over our great state just gave me cause to comment like everyone else here. My view of where things lie is just my opinion and I thought this might be a somewhat civil place to share opinions. That is what my circle of frends on other forums do. I just see it different, a lack of offense is evident to the guys on the TV as well as those of us who know the game. If Tommy, Kellogg and TJ are told to stand in the corners and wait for the ball or kick then it is not on them to get open. How many folks here have been talking about Hall and Kellogg being more trey ball shooters than they expected and lamenting the absence of a second playmaker. Believe me, Kellogg, TJ and Ricardo all have the ability ot put the ball on the deck but the offense is making them a jump shooting team for the masses to cry about the loss of players who would have had the same problem within system.  Who do you think that is on? Have you ever played for a coach who put you in a situation that was counter intutitive? If so what did you do? Go out and run off non existent picks? The only time they brought Freeman off a pick yesterday he canned the shot prompting the commentator to remark on it  How many times have Tj. Freeman and Hall scored off the inbound picks they get this year? Answer is many as all of them can shoot off the screen.
 
I thought writing an opinion on here  with the benefit of  age and experience in basketball, years of  kids and great parents who taught me well might provide a bit of insight.

Now for the quote. Ask the moderators to provide you with every one of my posts. I have never even alluded to Ethan's playing time except to answer a question about his anklewhen he was injured. Other than that I can only prop him up when he is home and encourage him to keep working hard in practice and EARN his time on the glass and the defensive end. That is all heart and effort and is the mark of a true player.  Not once have I ever wished for more time in this forum.

No wonder people call you names, you attack without any provocation or reason. That is just rude and uncalled for. I like Groce and think Ethan will do well under him. I just hope all fans are not like you because it is going to be a long 4 years for us who follow him if all are as rude and hateful.

Teams are like kids. You have to have clearly defined expectations and they will almost always rise to them. When it is time to discipline them you need to do it effectively, not like Bobby Knight, We all know how that turns out, Coach Wooden would be more in line with todays kids than Knight. Soft spoken with consequences but always as a teacher. Kids rise to their level of expectations is the most effective parenting advice i was ever given. Not sure if you know what I mean but from your response I got a feeling you may have missed a few lessons in civility and how to play nice along the way. .

A. I didn't even know you were related to Ethan.
B. I think Ethan will have a bright future at Ohio as well. Fact - I have been one of the people questioning why we aren't getting him valuable game experience in whatever limited capacity we can this year.
C. My comment was more in reference to some of the jabs you have taken at Groce and the Staff over the past few weeks. Maybe implying you are pining for more playing time for Ethan was out of line, but I can't help but think that's what you've been angling at over the past few weeks without actually coming out and saying it. Your strategy of gently ripping the coaching staff in paragraph 1 and then talking about their vast potential in paragraph 2 is very transparent to even the casual observer.
D. I personally found it insulting that you compared Cooper and Groce's relationship to that of a parent taking a video game controller from his child. I'm not sure the context of the "green light" is even comparable in those two scenarios. DJ's assist to turnover numbers and ability to score the basketball absent of other options give him a lot of leeway, which I totally agree with. I'm telling you to watch film and you'll see a lot of other bad shots being taken at ill advised points during the possessions.
E. You just told us that you much prefer John Wooden's style to Bobby Knight (while taking a small jab at Coach Knight)...yet after RMU you are advocating Coach Knight's techniques - huh?
F. When you issued your "consider the source" comment about our non conference schedule it rubbed me the wrong way. While the RPI and Sagarin don't currently (and may not) bear it out, I agree it was a rigorous non conference schedule that was well constructed and thought out for the program, players, coaches, and even fans.
G. I don't pretend to know the offense, but my guess is that Groce doesn't just say "Hey, Tommy, Nick, TJ...go run down the floor and stand in the corner and wait...then maybe DJ will decide to give you the ball" Your constant jabs on DJ's shot selection are tiring. I've seen enough from him last year and this year to know he's our best option on offense, and we can't get a Freeman wide open 3, or a Washington layup...there's nobody else I want trying to create offense. Saying that guys are standing in the corner while DJ chucks up bad 3 after bad 3 is getting stale.
H. I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but if you follow this thing closely - I don't think its all that difficult to realize that our offensive options are very limited this year. My personal opinion is that I'd rather have DJ put the team on his shoulders and I'll take the good with the bad.

Nobody is saying they have a mission to keep it out of Tommy's hands, but that they don't have a commitment to get it in his hands and deliberately create situations.  You mention our 3 offensive options...I see what you're saying, but let's point out DJ firing up 3s is not 1 of the 3 you outline, so why wouldn't you be interested in trying to evolve the offense away from more of the same?  I agree our offensive options are limited to a pathetic level...But that tells me we need to take a hard look at things and the way we approach things on offense.  You seem to be taking the approach that we should just throw our hands in the air and tell DJ to go get em.

Nobody is questioning how good DJ is, we're just questioning how we can use our best player to actually make us a GOOD team.  I think it'd be pretty cool if we were a good team, but we're not. 

Truth be told, I thought we did a yeoman's job staying in that game yesterday. We were constantly playing from behind and put ourselves in holes from the opening jump and at the start of the 2nd half. As Love pointed out earlier the Big 3 inside guys from Miami played a huge part in that. A key stat look at their big 3 vs. ours is telling:

                                  Minutes Played                   Orebs        Trebs         Pts Scored   Fouls
Winbush                         39                                       2                 9                   19                 5
Ballard                            55                                       5                12                  26                 4
Malvaga                          55                                       2                 8                   15                  2

DeVaughn                      26                                       1                 4                    10                 5
Baltic                               44                                        0                3                    16                 4
Keely                               21                                        1                5                     4                  5

Note that Miami had 2 of their bigs on the floor for all 55 minutes played. That we had DeVaughn and Keely on the bench for huge stretches and eventually fouling out played into our inexperienced guard oriented combinations for huge stretches during that game. That we were schooled on the boards was no surprise and that Miami got  tons of 2nd chance points against us. I've stated previously that for us to enjoy any measure of success in the MAC this year we have to get much more consistent play from DeVaughn/Baltic/Keely. Ivo's play yesterday was encouraging. We'll be in huge trouble the rest of the year if DeVaughn is essentially sitting out half of the game due to foul trouble as was the case yesterday. Keely appears to be in a bit of a sophomore slump, hopefully it cures itself quickly.              

All right, this debate is simmering, so I need to unpack a few things.

- I find Flomo's statement that Groce simply rode the hot hand of Armon in March to be a gross mischaracterization of what happened.  There are a couple problems I have with this.  First, that was a team effort that got us there.  We beat Ball State in spite of Armon, not because of him.  DJ played fantastic against Akron and Georgetown, KVK played solid, Devaughn got up and down the floor better than he ever did (and we got him the ball when he did so).  The defense was really good, especially when they simply shut Miami down.  They took care of the ball.  If it was simply Armon that carried us, the Zips would have buried us when Armon had that 1-8 stretch in the championship.  Also, and this is sort of a weird compliment, Armon actually started trying when the team got to Cleveland.  He spent most of this Bobcat career thinking he was too good for it all, but when he got to the big stage, he finally played like he did at Indiana.

- I also take issue with Flomo's statement that no players have progressed under Groce and no big men have developed.  Everyone points to KVK, but we're also seeing Ivo start to emerge.  Keely is showing flashes.  Look at Washington's numbers and tell me he hasn't gotten better.  Not a big man, but Freeman went from a 37% shooter from deep his freshman year to 42.5% to 47% last year.  I agree with HeHate in that most of the problems lie with turnover.  We're starting over every year, and basketball is a game that puts a strong emphasis on chemistry, and chemistry usually takes time.  If we get stability in this program, I think we'll be a lot better going forward.

- I don't recall anyone "dumping" on DJ.  Instead, we disagreed that he should have a green light to shoot whenever.  He's really, really good when he puts the ball on the floor, shooting 48.5% from 2.  From three?  28.8% and he has virtually double the attempts of Nick, who is shooting 42.4%.  Those ill-advised launches discourage the other guys to work hard off the ball.  And when he takes those early threes, it kills potential for offensive rebounds.  He's 20th in the nation in possessions used percentage, not what you want to see with an offense that supposed to work on balance.  This sounds harsh, but it's not meant to be.  He's our spearhead, our best player, and it all starts with him.  This is the only big hole in his game and I want to see him plug because if he does, he's going to be great.

- The offense is frustrating.  Blame goes to the players and the coaches.  Blame goes to the players because I see Groce call a play and then they simply don't execute it.  Is it outright refusal or inability?  Maybe both, I don't know.  Blame goes to the coaches because they don't get the players to do what they want them to do.  What makes it worse is that when they run plays, they work and it's just lovely to watch.

- I've seen them do rebounding drills in practice.  I don't know what I would tell them... the guys just have to want it.

- Washington is not a post player.  He's just not.  He gets most of his baskets in transition or off pick-and-rolls, cuts and open looks.  Why do we think he's something he isn't?  Play accordingly.
- We showed a lot of poise and heart yesterday, which is something I think we've wanted to see from these guys.

I second that because with the Coach making a bunch of inroads in our state I would hate for new folks here who  have grown up in basketball to think that this is the norm for the Ohio view of the game. My guess is if they come here for a look it will undo any recruiting advantage Coach may have.

There are a few cool heads here but in points a-h Bobcat Love changes every point I have ever made to fit his idea of what I have tried to communicate. Coaches are Mentors and my point was about teams. It was a metaphor. I thought Ohio U had an excellent J school. Of course you thought I was a realative and of course you thought I was pining for more time because you don't take things at face value. No hidden agendas here just trying to give a view of the game the way I have learned it from many smart coaches. Most coaches I know are teachers who use stories, metaphors, sayings and experiences to teach their kids/men about life. Basketball is a metaphor for life and the lessons it teaches us go far beyond the game. When a kid commits to a coach and a parent sends their kid off to a school they are trusting that man with their  child and to finish making him a man in the next 4 years. He is an extension of them in most parents eyes. Like it or not that is a basketball fact. Ask any parent you meet the ywill tell you the same thing.  Please quit assuming you know some alter reason other than a love of basketball for me posting here.

And with these sentences you just lost all credibility.

"Mommy, I'm not going to play basketball at Ohio because Bobcat695 and Gman the Cat Fan are mean on the message board"

Gimme a break. We've heard this argument so many times, and so many times it has become stale and inaccurate. Kids aren't choosing schools based on message board fodder, and if they are - it's probably not a kid or family you want around.

The people that start associating a message board with recruiting tumult are people where I click "Mark as Read" ASAP....and they join Slavin and OCF in that category of purgatory.

For the record (jiminy, i would have to do this for points a-h to be reallyfair to the readers):

I did not take a jab at Bobby. I love him as a commentator and am in awe of his accomplishments not only at IU but the way he stuck it in their face when he went to Texas Tech. My point there was that I suspect in this day of coach athlete relationships Woodens way of teaching is probably more effective than Knight's.and I tied that to the parenting Metaphor as many of his athletes also do in real life. Read this months Hall of Fame magazine which is a tribute to Coach Wooden and you will feel that bond. 

 If you have kids who would you rather have them spend 4 hours a day for and travel with 9 months a year RMK or Johnny Wooden?. How you would get that I am slamming a man I watched and respected since he was on the 1961 undefeated team is beyond me.I am not going to address your points or any more of your posts as it is evident I have become the focus of a misguided wrath and enything I say will be twisted far beyond the scope of basketball which is what I prefer to talk about in a larger game and program sense rather than look at each possession or  individual player.. When team or children (general use not referring to anything but children in general) are not performing to expectations and levels of talent there are many places to find cures.

 

Now you have become the Keeper of Credibility? I just came here to share a few ideas about basketball. I think the old saying "what we do not like in ourselves we see brilliantly shining in others" may apply here. Take the log out of your own eye my friend.

If Devaughn is not a low post player, then you essentially were ready to go to battle with Keely (Soph), Baltic (Soph), and Alex Kellogg as your low post players this year.

2 guys who have upside, but were unproven coming into this season, one transfer who averaged 0.9 ppg, and then Ethan who you decided early on obviously wasn't ready to assume any kind of role this year.

At this point, only Baltic appears to be on a reasonable path to development. Keely to some extent could be effective, but he's struggling mightily at this point.

With next year's guard-laden class you have no relief for this situation, so we will assuredly be dealing with the same questions next year on this topic.

I've said it all year, the frontcourt is our biggest achilles heel and throwing more guards at it next year isn't going to help matters.

Other coaches have gotten the "big guy" to Athens!  We used to always have one stud on the front line.  Just wondering what is going on with the recruiting?

Let's face it...in looking at the "comparison" chart, their "bigs" had our bigs for lunch!  Theirs played the whole game and hit the boards...ours did not.  End of story.

    How did I get throwed into this?   Anyway,   I have no problem with DJ running the team the way he has, Just wish he would kick it out a little more on his drives, for an open 3 and in the end it would open things up more for him to drive, DJ has the Green Light from me, 


 A lot of folks are on Devaughn, my hats off to this kid, he has been playing hurt for about the last 3 weeks with a very sore wrist, noticed it was wrapped at the tip off and he started the 2nd half with it unwrapped, believe it or not,  its affecting his play and his shooting touch, but he's trying to play through it.

 Everyone knows I'm a big Groce supporter, But during the game I just couldn't figure out why he didn't  post up Ballard and get his 5th foul on him or keep taking it to him, to get him out of there, I believed he played the 3 OT's with 4 fouls. Winbush fouled out and if we would of took it to Ballard,  I think he was sure to follow, but we didn't and it bit us on the ass in the end. learn and move on.

I still have high expectations for this team, It just seems this team just can't catch a break when it needs one,
I know you make your own breaks, but just seems like we can't get a call and the other teams seem to get one in close games and that kinda turns the tides on the Bobcats, I might be wrong but it sure seems that way to me.

Ethan Jacobs,  I'm a big Ethan Jacobs fan,  he just needs to stay the course,  Practice hard, put on some weight, hit the weights and get stronger. Kid can get up and down the floor really good for his size. He will be an impact player for the Cats down the road. but right now just stay the course.
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Dennis "Gman"    "DON"T   FLINCH"

 

It is a good random though and has a reallly good answer but I have had my Credibility revoked so you might call a parent and ask them about their official visit and the families being taken up in the press box to meet the President at a football game which I am sure that he also does during the game with each and every college applicant. Of course that is after meeting the academic advisors, tutoring staff, dean of the school they are to be attending and then visiting the tailgate that basketball has provided especially for the recruit and the family to enjoy as each dean does for every student in the applicant pool. Ooops sorry with my credibility gone my information must be erroneous also. You will definitely do better approaching Love with this random thought than someone who has been revoked.

Yeah, but look at the situation in reverse. Imagine if Brandon Hunter, Jerome Tillman, or *especially* Leon Williams had DJ Cooper getting them the ball. Seems like our problem always was getting the guards on campus, now it's the reverse.

Thinking back "The MAC is a guard led league!" is only second to "Life on the road in the MAC."