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Topic: Steve Hays Needs to Offically Shut Up
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rpbobcat
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Posted: 2/26/2011 2:43 PM
Flomo-genezid:

From my perspective,unless someone is indepently wealthy,I don't know how many parents would be happy to hear  that their offspring intends to spend fours years or more  and a s _ _ _ load of money  for an  "intellectual experience"  degree.
Last Edited: 2/26/2011 2:48:19 PM by rpbobcat
Flomo-genized
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Posted: 2/26/2011 3:15 PM
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you right and others wrong.  There are millions of people who prefer to use college to develop their general knowledge of the world and critical thinking skills, rather than simply to obtain job training for a profession they may not even want to pursue 10 years down the road.  Even in the business world, I think you'd be surprised to learn how many top executives at major companies majored in the liberal arts, rather than business, while in undergrade.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 2/26/2011 3:38 PM
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you right and others wrong.


I have never shared this incorrect statement of the facts.
intrpdtrvlr
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Posted: 2/26/2011 5:24 PM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=Mike Johnson]
But which is the cart and which is the horse.  Teaching is a thankless career that, despite numbers flying around, does not pay well and often requires an advanced degree to gain an increase in salary.  Not denying the current system rewards bad teachers - so stay away from Siberia -- but most college students today with a head on their shoulders are probably not, unfortunately, going to consider teaching as a career.  So you get "stuck" with the bottom-third.


I'm pursuing graduate study at Ohio in part because I couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life teaching high school, which I did for a year.  
rpbobcat
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Posted: 2/27/2011 10:03 AM
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you right and others wrong.  There are millions of people who prefer to use college to develop their general knowledge of the world and critical thinking skills, rather than simply to obtain job training for a profession they may not even want to pursue 10 years down the road.  Even in the business world, I think you'd be surprised to learn how many top executives at major companies majored in the liberal arts, rather than business, while in undergrade.


There may be some executives who majored in Liberal Arts,I have never seen any statistics.I do wonder how many of those did have to get MBA's to get to an executive level ?
I do however  know a number of Liberal Arts grads who have had to take "low level' jobs because liberal arts degrees  limited their  job opportunities.

I guess I'm old school.I was brought up with the mindset that the purpose of college was to educate you for a career.
I  can't say I didn't appreciate the Liberal Arts courses I had to take as an undergraduate.
As an engineering major,they were a nice break and usually an easy "A".
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Posted: 2/27/2011 11:12 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
Perhaps and I emphasize perhaps some teachers could use a rude awakening.  In recent months a McKinsey study - results were included in a TIME mag article on education - included some distressing findings.  I'm traveling now  and the article is back in North Canton and my memory might be a bit off, but a central finding went something like this: Well fewer than half of elementary and high school teachers finished in the top one-third of their college classes.  A too large percentage finished in the lowest third. 


But which is the cart and which is the horse.  Teaching is a thankless career that, despite numbers flying around, does not pay well and often requires an advanced degree to gain an increase in salary.  Not denying the current system rewards bad teachers - so stay away from Siberia -- but most college students today with a head on their shoulders are probably not, unfortunately, going to consider teaching as a career.  So you get "stuck" with the bottom-third.


2 things I heard ad nauseum as a fulltime teacher......those that can learn and those that can't teach....as well as you get a 3 month paid vacation.

I wish I would have known these intellectual maxims before I entered and finished a 5 year educational doctoral program....which by the way gave me no increase in salary.



DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/27/2011 7:48 PM
anorris wrote:expand_more
What other university charges free admission to students?

Every last one in our conference, for starters.


... and the University of Delaware.

Penn offers free admission for most sports except for basketball and football and I'm pretty sure that Maryland offers free admission for students to all sporting events with basketball and football tickets awarded based on a loyalty system with points gained from attending other sporting events.
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Posted: 2/27/2011 7:57 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you right and others wrong.  There are millions of people who prefer to use college to develop their general knowledge of the world and critical thinking skills, rather than simply to obtain job training for a profession they may not even want to pursue 10 years down the road.  Even in the business world, I think you'd be surprised to learn how many top executives at major companies majored in the liberal arts, rather than business, while in undergrade.


There may be some executives who majored in Liberal Arts,I have never seen any statistics.I do wonder how many of those did have to get MBA's to get to an executive level ?
I do however  know a number of Liberal Arts grads who have had to take "low level' jobs because liberal arts degrees  limited their  job opportunities.

I guess I'm old school.I was brought up with the mindset that the purpose of college was to educate you for a career.
I  can't say I didn't appreciate the Liberal Arts courses I had to take as an undergraduate.
As an engineering major,they were a nice break and usually an easy "A".


I would say you're new school. Old school in my book would be you go to a university to better yourself personally and intellectually and a higher salary is a benefit of that process. New school is--unfortunately--that universities are nothing more than glorified vocational schools.

I have degrees in Geography and in Political Science and I do not regret my liberal arts-oriented education for a second. I took classes ranging from biology to industrial technology to yes, classics and world religions. Some of my liberal arts courses were the most difficult for me as they required complex thinking skills and in-depth research. On the other hand, solving a math problem has always been easy for me.

I think the following article sums it up pretty well: http://www.thehighschoolgraduate.com/editorial/FL/liberal...
DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/27/2011 7:58 PM
Also, to be clear, I hate Steve Hays and wish he'd go away forever.
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Posted: 2/27/2011 8:45 PM
This is an interesting thread.

Here intellectuals go to Indiana and Farmers go to Purdue. I can't see that much difference across the line as my farmer friends from vets to county agents are State grads. That is at least the way I have heard the stories for years. My take is that I am up north of 70  and surrounded by corn, beans and Purdue hats riding combines and tractors on table top flat fields for the better and hotter parts of the year while the other 8 months those folks are sitting in the diner complaining because they don't get no respect from the pot smokers in Bloomington. Does not help that during the months basketball is played and discussed here those folks are all congregated around the one round table in each of those diners with nothing else to do but flap their gums about PU and Painter. I don't really care for either one over the other and do backflips for joy when I see our individual boys in the NCAA's or when the state has multiple entries in the tourney. .

Funny take on things. Had a friend go to Dartmouth for a liberal arts degree. He ain't any smarter nor is he what I would call a critical thinker. Can't even figure out why to zone on an out of bounds under the basket.

Anyway I was just reading this and looked over at my magazine I just picked up and remembered that I wanted to look this up and post it here.  

blogs.forbes.com/sciencebiz/2011/02/15/get-football-out-of-our-universities/

What's the similarity between the FBI, CIA and Purdue?
Last Edited: 2/27/2011 8:47:40 PM by tiptondevilcat
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 2/27/2011 9:00 PM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that you right and others wrong.  There are millions of people who prefer to use college to develop their general knowledge of the world and critical thinking skills, rather than simply to obtain job training for a profession they may not even want to pursue 10 years down the road.  Even in the business world, I think you'd be surprised to learn how many top executives at major companies majored in the liberal arts, rather than business, while in undergrade.


There may be some executives who majored in Liberal Arts,I have never seen any statistics.I do wonder how many of those did have to get MBA's to get to an executive level ?
I do however  know a number of Liberal Arts grads who have had to take "low level' jobs because liberal arts degrees  limited their  job opportunities.

I guess I'm old school.I was brought up with the mindset that the purpose of college was to educate you for a career.
I  can't say I didn't appreciate the Liberal Arts courses I had to take as an undergraduate.
As an engineering major,they were a nice break and usually an easy "A".


I would say you're new school. Old school in my book would be you go to a university to better yourself personally and intellectually and a higher salary is a benefit of that process. New school is--unfortunately--that universities are nothing more than glorified vocational schools.

I have degrees in Geography and in Political Science and I do not regret my liberal arts-oriented education for a second. I took classes ranging from biology to industrial technology to yes, classics and world religions. Some of my liberal arts courses were the most difficult for me as they required complex thinking skills and in-depth research. On the other hand, solving a math problem has always been easy for me.

I think the following article sums it up pretty well: http://www.thehighschoolgraduate.com/editorial/FL/liberal...


Agree with DelBobcat on this.
rpbobcat
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Posted: 2/28/2011 7:40 AM
Delbobcat:
In response to your comment on solving math problems being easy.
Just wondering what level of math you're refering to.
I don't know too many people,including myself, who thought solving the problems in Differential Equations or Linear Algebra were easy .
 
DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/28/2011 11:21 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Delbobcat:
In response to your comment on solving math problems being easy.
Just wondering what level of math you're refering to.
I don't know too many people,including myself, who thought solving the problems in Differential Equations or Linear Algebra were easy .
 


I will give you that easy was not necessarily the best word choice. I guess it would be better of me to say that it is engaging and fun for me to try to solve a problem. On the other hand, writing a paper about the gentrification and use of branding in the University City neighborhood of West Philadelphia, as I am doing now, presents a challenge for me. I am very interested in the topic and love researching it, but expressing my ideas on paper can feel daunting.

The point is that both exercises require a lot of intellectual capacity and effort. Neither should be downplayed as less important. Many solutions to real-world problems are produced by the natural and physical sciences, but also by the social sciences.
rpbobcat
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Posted: 2/28/2011 12:13 PM
DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
Delbobcat:
In response to your comment on solving math problems being easy.
Just wondering what level of math you're refering to.
I don't know too many people,including myself, who thought solving the problems in Differential Equations or Linear Algebra were easy .
 


I will give you that easy was not necessarily the best word choice. I guess it would be better of me to say that it is engaging and fun for me to try to solve a problem. On the other hand, writing a paper about the gentrification and use of branding in the University City neighborhood of West Philadelphia, as I am doing now, presents a challenge for me. I am very interested in the topic and love researching it, but expressing my ideas on paper can feel daunting.

The point is that both exercises require a lot of intellectual capacity and effort. Neither should be downplayed as less important. Many solutions to real-world problems are produced by the natural and physical sciences, but also by the social sciences.


I agree 100% that  both exercises do require intellectual capacity and effort.

I was lucky,research and writing papers came naturally to me .Believe it or not,engineers,especially in grad school,have to write a lot of papers.My problem was never the paper,but the *&^%$#@ footnotes.

 
Ohio Pilot
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Posted: 2/28/2011 2:05 PM
i would like to comment on the part of the Article where he mentions Mcdavis flying around in the Beech. Which of course he is referring to the University owned Beechcraft King Air B300 pictured below:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/runway27r/371266028

That plane is No doubt a Very Nice Aircraft but it serves a very important purpose to the University.
First and Foremost all Major universities own and operate usually one or more Airplanes. its an essential part of a business. Yes McDavis gets to ride around in it to University Events, thats a perk of being president. 
But Every quarter an Aviation Major at Ohio University get to be First Officer in this and go on all the flights gaining valuable Turbine Time For the Student who will need that time to be hired. i Student coming out of college with any bit of multi engine turbine time is going to get many many looks by the companies looking for hiring. 

I would Also like to Point out that The university used to own 2 aircraft for transportation but sold one of them. It was a Beechcraft Baron 58 twin engine piston aircraft:
www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/007717.html


So the university Owning an aircraft is by no means a new things that McDavis decided to buy. Before the B300 the university also owed and King Air B200 that was also registered N700U. 

I wish this guy actually new what he was talking about.
Last Edited: 2/28/2011 6:04:16 PM by Ohio Pilot
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Posted: 2/28/2011 2:50 PM
I flew on N2000U during the summer in 2000 and while it was nice to fly private, the plane itself wasn't anything special or overly luxurious.  For students I imagine it's a VERY nice aircraft and a great asset to the aviation program.



Pardon the pun, but the plane doesn't even register on the radar of the lowest level plane in the fleet I used to help optimize at Flight Options.  Those jets and amenities are what I would associate with "excessive," not the King Airs of Ohio University.

OP, are you sure the university doesn't still have the 200?  Just a coincidence that it landed at KUNI last week?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N200U



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Posted: 2/28/2011 6:03 PM
Sorry your right the B200 we had was registered N700U just like the New King Air B300 is now. But N200U is a king air c90 and it belongs to the Avionics Engineering department and is not used for transportation.

The King Air 200 and 300 series are alot nicer and seat 12 counting the crew i believe. The C90 is used for research and does not have a lot of bells and whistles when it comes to comfort.  N700U is pretty luxurious and is a first class business aircraft. With a price tag of about 5 million it better be. But it is still a great asset to the university. It would not be right for our president to be flying around in a single engine Piper Warrior III. 
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