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Topic: Official Game 4 Thread: Louisville
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Ted Thompson
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:04 PM
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Use this thread to talk about anything game-related.

Date: November 25th, 2011  7:00 PM

Opponent: Louisville  (4-0)

Site: KFC Yum! Center

TV: WHAS, Big East Network, ESPN FullCourt, SportsNet New York (DirecTV 639), MASN (DirecTV 640)

Radio:  Ohio Radio

Webcast:  None

Louisville's media guide, roster and statistics.  

Louisville fan sites: InsideTheVille  (Scout)   CardinalSportsReport  (Rivals)
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:42 PM
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What constitutes success here? Do they have to win? Do they have to stay within 10? 20?

I always struggle -- and I imagine coaches do too -- to define what is a successful day against a Top 10 program.

And... the KFC YUM! Center is the least professional sounding arena in America since Enron had its name on the Astros' stadium. YUM! brands should not be able to put their name on an arena.
Last Edited: 11/20/2011 5:45:03 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
JSF
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Posted: 11/20/2011 5:43 PM
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Team profile according to Basketball State: "Unselfish, balanced offense. Scores early and often. Hard to score against. Guards the paint well."

So there's that. The Cardinals in the top 10 nationally in defensive efficiency, opponent FG%, and opponent 2FG%. They're about 25th in opponent 3FG%. They're also a good shooting team overall but average from three. They also don't force a ton of turnovers. They have very strong armor with a couple small weak points.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:23 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
What constitutes success here? Do they have to win? Do they have to stay within 10? 20?

And... the KFC YUM! Center is the least professional sounding arena in America since Enron had its name on the Astros' stadium. YUM! brands should not be able to put their name on an arena.
If KFC YUM! would write some big checks for a facility here I would have NO PROBLEM with the naming of the arena. Besides, KFC is an iconic KY/Louisville institution - the brands are Global - and a great source of local and state pride. They SHOULD write the big checks - and they do.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:24 PM
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I feel my dripping sarcasm should be easier to detect than that. I'll use blue text next time.

My feelings on naming rights and advertising people are in line with Bill Hicks'.
Last Edited: 11/20/2011 6:30:34 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:42 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
What constitutes success here? Do they have to win? Do they have to stay within 10? 20?

I always struggle -- and I imagine coaches do too -- to define what is a successful day against a Top 10 program.
I would say we can have "success" against an opponent like this in many ways:

Play to your potential, or beyond.
Play 40 minutes of determined basketball - both sides of the court
Play as a Team.
Maintain composure through the tough spells of the game (shots don't fall, bad calls, etc.).
Execute plays.

A LOT can be Achieved, and we can come away with a Lot of Successes even if short of a Win. But if we have too many Failures, we can come away with both a Loss and no Success.

If we play to our potential, for 40 minutes - I think we can keep it interesting until late in the game. I feel a lot better about our prospects after today's game. Even if we come away with a loss, I think we can come away with A Lot of Success to build on moving forward in the season.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/20/2011 8:39 PM
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I was impressed enough by the effort today that I decided I need to add another splash of green to the rafters seats in the KFC YUM Center. Road trip to L'Ville Friday! Hope I don't need binoculars in row 23, Section 321..........
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Posted: 11/20/2011 8:53 PM
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Headed up to the Ville from Nashville for the game + 1. Hope to say hello to fellow attackers.
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Posted: 11/20/2011 10:09 PM
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Antoher conversation at the game today left me realizing scheduling at OHIO, or for a mid major, must be extremely difficult and beyond my comprehension.  Decided I would not try to understand it.  These teams like Oakland, Arkansas St., etc... are not easy games and these teams are/have been to NCAA's/picked to finish high in their conferences, etc...  Not total early season cupcakes.  Then again, they do nothing to excite the fan base or draw area residence to games.  You don't get excited to beat these teams because only the diehards know their resumes.  You just feel like you're playing totally obsure teams picked out of a hat.

Then when we do schedule UP, we go overboard.  Case in point, Kansas the last couple of years and now at Louisville.  Feel like I'm being too particular, but there's got to be a good middle ground.  Then we play these games on the day after Thanksgiving which makes it very difficult to get away from family stuff versus like an early Saturday in December when the trip would be easier to schedule?

Personally, I'd much prefer doing what Akron is doing the week after next and playing a down WVU team in Morgantown. Or Kent State at WVU.  WVU is a doable road trip; a regional matchup that would excite the fanbase; a date that is not a tied to a holiday; and at least this year a somewhat winnable game versus a namebrand team.Or turning on the tv this week to see Miami (OH) versus Dayton and Xavier.     In a perfect world I'd like to see us sprinkle in these games a little more strategically.
Last Edited: 11/20/2011 10:54:50 PM by Chicken George
RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/20/2011 11:07 PM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
Antoher conversation at the game today left me realizing scheduling at OHIO, or for a mid major, must be extremely difficult and beyond my comprehension. Decided I would not try to understand it. These teams like Oakland, Arkansas St., etc... are not easy games and these teams are/have been to NCAA's/picked to finish high in their conferences, etc... Not total early season cupcakes. Then again, they do nothing to excite the fan base or draw area residence to games. You don't get excited to beat these teams because only the diehards know their resumes. You just feel like you're playing totally obsure teams picked out of a hat.

Then when we do schedule UP, we go overboard. Case in point, Kansas the last couple of years and now at Louisville. Feel like I'm being too particular, but there's got to be a good middle ground. Then we play these games on the day after Thanksgiving which makes it very difficult to get away from family stuff versus like an early Saturday in December when the trip would be easier to schedule?

Personally, I'd much prefer doing what Akron is doing the week after next and playing a down WVU team in Morgantown. Or Kent State at WVU. WVU is a doable road trip; a regional matchup that would excite the fanbase; a date that is not a tied to a holiday; and at least this year a somewhat winnable game versus a namebrand team.Or turning on the tv this week to see Miami (OH) versus Dayton and Xavier. In a perfect world I'd like to see us sprinkle in these games a little more strategically.
So - If Groce can figure out when O$U will be down, get 'em on the schedule ("Hey Thad, John here. Say, you look to be "down" next year, how 'bout slippin' us in for a 1st or 2nd weekend Saturday game next December?") - ?

I went to the Pitt game last year. Will go to Wright State in couple weeks. L'ville on Friday (closer than just a few other other major programs). We're at Marshall right after that. Not sure if you're really making a significant relevant point there.....
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Posted: 11/20/2011 11:24 PM
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RS Bobcat--your point is valid if basketball schedules are created like football schedules where you book these years in advance.  I kind of get the impression (remember I said I have no clue how schedules are made) that you do much of a basketball schedule  year to year and not necessarily 3-5 year out in most cases?  No clue but I got the impression from next years OOC basketball schedule is still in its early stages as we speak?  All I know is that I live in WV and every WVU fan I know said, "it's going to be rough early season."  Haven't done the research, but dare I check Louisville's record the past 5-7 years?

But I will say contrary to your point, if you're going to schedule a somewhat winnable marque game do you really think @Louisville or @Kansas is where you put your chips?  I'm not waving the white flag and will be watching every minute of this game, but do you count on staying within 20 points if you play these games 25 times in row?  Not sure?  Hope I eat crow a week from now and you say "I told you so." 

Next, count the number of OHIO fans @Kansas, @Louisville, @Portland, @Northern Iowa and then count the number of OHIO fans if we're @WVU or Miami (OH) @Xavier, Dayton, Ohio State or Cincinnati.  50x I'd guess.

Agreed I like @Marshall.    I'll be there and I was also at the Kansas game last year (losing by 57 was a blast!).  Oh ya, I was @PITT a few years ago too, another fun time.

Not a right or wrong, just saying...
RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/20/2011 11:51 PM
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I gotta think we take a game w/L'Ville, Kansas, Duke, etc. whenever we can get 'em - why would you not?

I have also been to games vs. KY, Cincinnati, Xavier, all you mention except Dayton over the years (many multiple).

O$U and Dayton won't play us - they only have something to lose by doing so - namely potential in-state recruits.

There is a long historic tradition of the SW Ohio Cincinnati/Xavier/Dayton/Miami rivalries - that won't go away. Dayton won't play Wright State either - no tradition there, and they don't want one to get one started.

"somewhat winnable marque (sic) game" - sounds like a contradiction.

If you want to be the best, you have to play the best. Do you think there is anyone on this team or coaching staff that is not exited to be going to L'Ville? Marquee programs - bring 'em on, and see what the recruits think about it as well.......
Last Edited: 11/20/2011 11:52:24 PM by RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/21/2011 12:16 AM
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Your points are all valid and I don't debate feeling really strongly, hence I end here.  The only thing I will stick to is:

If I were OHIO I would stay away from sucker traps such as taking open dates offered such as:

@Louisville, @Duke, @Kansas, @UNC (yes I know), @Kentucky, @UCONN or any other typical Top 10 program.  Not sure what playing Kansas or PItt the past few years has done for recruiting or morale other than remind everyone the reality of where stand.  I can't personally say I enjoyed being apart of either experience and the players didn't look energized either (neither do I believe the recruiting video had highlight clips of either game).  They were total destructions and mismatches.

I would shoot instead for Top 15-30 teams for the one big showcase trip of the year.  The only way I take a Top 10 type team is if it's a regional matchup or if we have a Trent type team or player.

Here's the current USA Today Rankings 15 & Down.  You can start here taking flyers. For example, if Michigan is willing to play Ferris State, Townson and W. Illinois, why not OHIO.   Then I'd look at middle of the pack SEC, Big 12 or ACC and land a big name you have a punchers chance at playing with.

15 Alabama 1-0 261 17
  Last Week: Def North Florida 64-44 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Oakland 74-57 (11/14), Def. Maryland 62-42 (11/17), Def Wichita State 70-60 (11/18), Def. Purdue 65-56 (11/20)  Tickets
16 Arizona 3-0 254 16
  Last Week: Def Valparaiso 73-64 (11/7), Def Duquesne 67-59 (11/9), Def Ball State 73-63 (11/13)
This Week: Def. St. John's 81-72 (11/17), Lost to Mississippi State 67-57 (11/18)  Tickets
17 Michigan 1-0 240 18
  Last Week: Def Ferris State 59-33 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Towson 64-47 (11/14), Def. Western Illinois 59-55 (11/17)  Tickets
18 Texas A&M 2-0 218 19
  Last Week: Def Liberty 81-59 (11/9), Def Southern University 83-58 (11/13)
This Week: Lost to Mississippi State 69-60 (11/17), Def. St. John's 58-57 (11/18)  Tickets
19 Marquette 1-0 182 21
  Last Week: Def Mount St. Mary's 91-37 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Norfolk State 99-68 (11/14), Def. Winthrop 95-73 (11/18), Def. Ole Miss 96-66 (11/20)  Tickets
20 Cincinnati 1-0 176 22
  Last Week: Def Alabama State 65-40 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Jacksonville State 73-59 (11/15), Lost to Presbyterian 56-54 (11/19)  Tickets
20 Vanderbilt 1-1 176 7
  Last Week: Def Oregon 78-64 (11/11), Lost to Cleveland State 71-58 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Bucknell 80-68 (11/15), Def North Carolina State 86-79 (11/19)  Tickets
22 California 2-0 145 24
  Last Week: Def UC Irvine 77-56 (11/11), Def George Washington 81-54 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Austin Peay 72-55 (11/15)  Tickets
23 Gonzaga 1-0 126 23
  Last Week: Def Eastern Washington 77-69 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Washington State 89-81 (11/15), Def. Hawaii 73-54 (11/19)  Tickets
24 Florida State 1-0 103 NR
  Last Week: Def Jacksonville 79-67 (11/11)
This Week: Def. UCF 73-50 (11/14), Def. Stetson 79-66 (11/16), Def. South Alabama 80-39 (11/20)  Tickets
25 Missouri 1-0 88 25
  Last Week: Def Southeast Missouri State 83-68 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Mercer 81-63 (11/14), Def. Niagara 83-52 (11/17)  Tickets
  • Others receiving votes: Texas 80, Purdue 55, Temple 54, Washington 49, Villanova 34, New Mexico 27, Creighton 23, UNLV 21, Michigan State 20, Cleveland State 13, George Mason 11, Georgetown 10, UCLA 10, West Virginia 10, St. John's 8, Oklahoma State 8, Saint Mary's 6, Butler 6, Drexel 5, Long Beach State 3, Virginia Commonwealth 3, Wichita State 1, Brigham Young 1
bobcat72
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Posted: 11/21/2011 9:37 AM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
Here's the current USA Today Rankings 15 & Down.  You can start here taking flyers. For example, if Michigan is willing to play Ferris State, Townson and W. Illinois, why not OHIO. 


Because they have a much better chance of losing to Ohio than those schools. We are avoided by some of the "big boys" because they see nothing to gain from playing us. If they win....they were supposed to. If they lose...it's an RPI and recruiting disaster.

As a result, the only "big name" teams we get are these top 10 type programs that aren't afraid of losing.
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Posted: 11/21/2011 10:35 AM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
These teams like Oakland, Arkansas St., etc... are not easy games and these teams are/have been to NCAA's/picked to finish high in their conferences, etc...  Not total early season cupcakes.  Then again, they do nothing to excite the fan 


It's up to the local contingent around Athens as much as it is to the athletic department to get better games. There was a $1 ticket promotion yesterday and official attendance (which I'm pretty sure accounts for cars passing by using the count strips on Richland) couldn't even justify 4,000. That's pathetic. Why would the athletic department try and go all out looking for better teams to come when there's hardly a home court advantage during the game? Athens hasn't been able to really support early season hoops for a multitude of reasons. Until that changes I would expect more Arkansas State, less Arkansas.
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Posted: 11/21/2011 1:49 PM
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I seem to think it's the contrary.  Picture Pedan when Pitt came to town, when ESPN/Temple came to town or even the Marshall game this year (though they travelled very well).  Lots more attendance and lots more buzz.  Then picture last year when Temple played what  I believe was a December game with no students at the Convo.  Suddenly a much larger and electric crowd as compared to what we experienced yesterday with students actually in town.  Then yesterday one of the longtime Green & White Club Members spoke of the days when teams like Depaul came ot the Convo and they ran out of toilet paper in the Convo due to the huge crowd.  I think our fans and the local areas have shown that they do get up for a periodic "name brand" team coming to town.  And as I've said, I realize that's easier said than done these days.
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Posted: 11/21/2011 1:55 PM
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Athens is unable to be a dual sport town. They can support both sports but aside from some anomalies here and there they haven't shown that they can support basketball during football season. Temple used the $1 or $0.25 promotion or something similar. Not to mention that Ohio had about as much to do with that game as any of us on here have to do with scheduling as I believe that game had to be scheduled due to Temple's football affiliation with the conference. I really will never understand in the days of DVR and watching games on your phone how it's possible people can't support two programs at once.
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Posted: 11/21/2011 8:24 PM
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does this game have a higher probability of being like Georgetown or like Kansas?
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Posted: 11/21/2011 8:45 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
does this game have a higher probability of being like Georgetown or like Kansas?
More like Kansas - in that I expect a loss - just because we don't have enough for them physically/athleticly position by position, especially w/Bigs. I don't think anyway we get buried by 30+ though.

I do think we could very well surprise and hang with them well into the game, maybe even close to the end. They are as usual loaded with athletic talent, but they have had some pre-season and early season issues with the line-up, roles getting defined, not hitting on all cylinders, etc. I don't think they are at all solid yet - and could have some vulnerabilities. If we hold tight with them, or get them down - how will they handle it mentally?

I expect we lose by high teens. However, I Do Not think a win is impossible - one of the reason's I bought a tic and am going to be there!
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Posted: 11/21/2011 8:48 PM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
Your points are all valid and I don't debate feeling really strongly, hence I end here. The only thing I will stick to is:

If I were OHIO I would stay away from sucker traps such as taking open dates offered such as:

@Louisville, @Duke, @Kansas, @UNC (yes I know), @Kentucky, @UCONN or any other typical Top 10 program. Not sure what playing Kansas or PItt the past few years has done for recruiting or morale other than remind everyone the reality of where stand. I can't personally say I enjoyed being apart of either experience and the players didn't look energized either (neither do I believe the recruiting video had highlight clips of either game). They were total destructions and mismatches.

I would shoot instead for Top 15-30 teams for the one big showcase trip of the year. The only way I take a Top 10 type team is if it's a regional matchup or if we have a Trent type team or player.

Here's the current USA Today Rankings 15 & Down. You can start here taking flyers. For example, if Michigan is willing to play Ferris State, Townson and W. Illinois, why not OHIO. Then I'd look at middle of the pack SEC, Big 12 or ACC and land a big name you have a punchers chance at playing with.

15 Alabama 1-0 261 17 Last Week: Def North Florida 64-44 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Oakland 74-57 (11/14), Def. Maryland 62-42 (11/17), Def Wichita State 70-60 (11/18), Def. Purdue 65-56 (11/20) Tickets 16 Arizona 3-0 254 16 Last Week: Def Valparaiso 73-64 (11/7), Def Duquesne 67-59 (11/9), Def Ball State 73-63 (11/13)
This Week: Def. St. John's 81-72 (11/17), Lost to Mississippi State 67-57 (11/18) Tickets 17 Michigan 1-0 240 18 Last Week: Def Ferris State 59-33 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Towson 64-47 (11/14), Def. Western Illinois 59-55 (11/17) Tickets 18 Texas A&M 2-0 218 19 Last Week: Def Liberty 81-59 (11/9), Def Southern University 83-58 (11/13)
This Week: Lost to Mississippi State 69-60 (11/17), Def. St. John's 58-57 (11/18) Tickets 19 Marquette 1-0 182 21 Last Week: Def Mount St. Mary's 91-37 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Norfolk State 99-68 (11/14), Def. Winthrop 95-73 (11/18), Def. Ole Miss 96-66 (11/20) Tickets 20 Cincinnati 1-0 176 22 Last Week: Def Alabama State 65-40 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Jacksonville State 73-59 (11/15), Lost to Presbyterian 56-54 (11/19) Tickets 20 Vanderbilt 1-1 176 7 Last Week: Def Oregon 78-64 (11/11), Lost to Cleveland State 71-58 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Bucknell 80-68 (11/15), Def North Carolina State 86-79 (11/19) Tickets 22 California 2-0 145 24 Last Week: Def UC Irvine 77-56 (11/11), Def George Washington 81-54 (11/13)
This Week: Def. Austin Peay 72-55 (11/15) Tickets 23 Gonzaga 1-0 126 23 Last Week: Def Eastern Washington 77-69 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Washington State 89-81 (11/15), Def. Hawaii 73-54 (11/19) Tickets 24 Florida State 1-0 103 NR Last Week: Def Jacksonville 79-67 (11/11)
This Week: Def. UCF 73-50 (11/14), Def. Stetson 79-66 (11/16), Def. South Alabama 80-39 (11/20) Tickets 25 Missouri 1-0 88 25 Last Week: Def Southeast Missouri State 83-68 (11/11)
This Week: Def. Mercer 81-63 (11/14), Def. Niagara 83-52 (11/17) Tickets Others receiving votes: Texas 80, Purdue 55, Temple 54, Washington 49, Villanova 34, New Mexico 27, Creighton 23, UNLV 21, Michigan State 20, Cleveland State 13, George Mason 11, Georgetown 10, UCLA 10, West Virginia 10, St. John's 8, Oklahoma State 8, Saint Mary's 6, Butler 6, Drexel 5, Long Beach State 3, Virginia Commonwealth 3, Wichita State 1, Brigham Young 1
Wow - quite the analysis there. Not to put water on your fire, but, I think they all have plenty of equally adept "scheduletoligists". :)
Last Edited: 11/21/2011 8:52:53 PM by RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/22/2011 10:04 AM
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Posted: 11/22/2011 10:29 AM
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FYI tonight's Arkansas State/Louisville game is on MASN and SNY for any East Coasters. For everyone else the game is also on ESPN3.
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Posted: 11/22/2011 10:34 AM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more


That's actually pretty good news.  It sounds like they may get Siva back for Friday but it sounds like he'll be limited.  We want them to be as healthy as they can be after we play them.
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Posted: 11/22/2011 12:02 PM
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bobcat72 wrote:expand_more
For example, if Michigan is willing to play Ferris State, Townson and W. Illinois, why not OHIO.


Because they have a much better chance of losing to Ohio than those schools. We are avoided by some of the "big boys" because they see nothing to gain from playing us. If they win....they were supposed to. If they lose...it's an RPI and recruiting disaster.

As a result, the only "big name" teams we get are these top 10 type programs that aren't afraid of losing.


If your argument holds true enough for it to be a barrier, then why did Alabama schedule Oakland? Why did Arizona schedule Ball State and Valparaiso and Oakland? Why did Vanderbilt schedule Cleveland State? Those are all games against pesky mid-majors capable of pulling an upset (as the Commodores found out). 

I think Chicken George's points are good ones. I'm sure that scheduling is one of the hardest parts of college athletics administration, and I don't say I could do any better or even as well, but the net effect of getting walloped by Top-10 teams may not be so great. Winnable games against names that everybody knows would seem to be a wise move, and I can personally say that it's more enjoyable as a fan.

I see a score such as Presbyterian 56 - Cincinnati 54 and I think, "It shoulda been us!"

Then I notice a contrast between Presbyterian's and Oakland's schedules and Ohio's. Ohio plays its only game against a high-major on the 25th at Louisville. Presbyterian had the opportunity to get pushed around by Duke before it played at Cincinnati, and they apparently used the Duke experience to improve and focus. Oakland plays Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, Michigan and Arizona!

 
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Posted: 11/22/2011 1:13 PM
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Presbyterian and Oakland also have to use the non conference to get those guaranteed checks the way that football here has to do. Since football gets those huge checks it gives Ohio a little more flexibility to not have to schedule more highly ranked teams then they are comfortable with.
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