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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: The 1804 Sport Collective
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Ted Thompson
12/22/2022 9:08 PM

And here we go.

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BuddyLee
12/22/2022 9:15 PM
I'm not so up to date on this NIL stuff. I know they want my money to lure recruits, but is there a page with an explanation of who my donation would specifically go to?
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FJC31
12/23/2022 8:22 AM
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
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M.D.W.S.T
12/23/2022 9:39 AM
BuddyLee wrote:expand_more
I'm not so up to date on this NIL stuff. I know they want my money to lure recruits, but is there a page with an explanation of who my donation would specifically go to?
I feel like I'm up to date on this NIL stuff, and I still don't know what is going on.

It's basically a go-fund me for athletics? I thought $500 handshakes were still illegal? I guess everything is so wide open these days that nothing matters.
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colobobcat66
12/23/2022 11:11 AM
This seems like a zero sum situation to me, the University Foundation and Bobcat club lose and the players gain directly. Do you folks see it the way I do or do you see lots of new money coming in!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/23/2022 11:12 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
I'm not so up to date on this NIL stuff. I know they want my money to lure recruits, but is there a page with an explanation of who my donation would specifically go to?
I feel like I'm up to date on this NIL stuff, and I still don't know what is going on.

It's basically a go-fund me for athletics? I thought $500 handshakes were still illegal? I guess everything is so wide open these days that nothing matters.
Think of it this way:

Say there are three dozen different organizations in Athens that are interested in NIL sponsorships (I kind of doubt the number's that high, but bear with me). And then there are 15 players on the basketball roster.

A collective is a single organization that can connect those organizations to those players, and who takes responsibility for compliance, payments, administration, etc.

Rather than Bocatattack.com or the Bagel Street Deli and an individual athlete having to understand and navigate compliance complexities, the money can go to a single organization who manages the process.

There's some variation of this in basically every industry. I suspect that the actual payments are then channeled through the organizations involved.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/23/2022 11:15 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
This seems like a zero sum situation to me, the University Foundation and Bobcat club lose and the players gain directly. Do you folks see it the way I do or do you see lots of new money coming in!
No, it's almost certainly zero sum.

But if a large percentage of donors look at their options and decide they'll have a bigger impact by putting money directly in the pockets of athletes, I think that's more of an indictment on the previous system and lays bare the true purpose of those donations than it is some sign that college athletics is dead forever.

Like you're saying: it's zero sum. The exact same money, what differs is whose pocket it ends up in.

For me, the big question is why so many people think it's terrible that it ends up in the pockets of the very talented, hard working people we watch year in and year out?
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spongeBOB CATpants
12/23/2022 12:04 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
This seems like a zero sum situation to me, the University Foundation and Bobcat club lose and the players gain directly. Do you folks see it the way I do or do you see lots of new money coming in!
No, it's almost certainly zero sum.

But if a large percentage of donors look at their options and decide they'll have a bigger impact by putting money directly in the pockets of athletes, I think that's more of an indictment on the previous system and lays bare the true purpose of those donations than it is some sign that college athletics is dead forever.

Like you're saying: it's zero sum. The exact same money, what differs is whose pocket it ends up in.

For me, the big question is why so many people think it's terrible that it ends up in the pockets of the very talented, hard working people we watch year in and year out?
While I have some issues with NIL in its current form, I don't disagree that kids should profit off of their own name if there is a market for that.

I do have issue with the NIL + 1 time transfer combo.

To me, that's where the problems lie. I'm not a fan of kids sitting down at the end of the year and holding NIL deals over their coach's (and essentially teammates'/fans') head. I'd rather just switch over to the schools cutting the checks directly.
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FJC31
12/23/2022 12:09 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I'm not so up to date on this NIL stuff. I know they want my money to lure recruits, but is there a page with an explanation of who my donation would specifically go to?
I feel like I'm up to date on this NIL stuff, and I still don't know what is going on.

It's basically a go-fund me for athletics? I thought $500 handshakes were still illegal? I guess everything is so wide open these days that nothing matters.
Think of it this way:

Say there are three dozen different organizations in Athens that are interested in NIL sponsorships (I kind of doubt the number's that high, but bear with me). And then there are 15 players on the basketball roster.

A collective is a single organization that can connect those organizations to those players, and who takes responsibility for compliance, payments, administration, etc.

Rather than Bocatattack.com or the Bagel Street Deli and an individual athlete having to understand and navigate compliance complexities, the money can go to a single organization who manages the process.

There's some variation of this in basically every industry. I suspect that the actual payments are then channeled through the organizations involved.
Most collectives also provide personal branding, financial literacy, and career development resources as well.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/23/2022 12:20 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
While I have some issues with NIL in its current form, I don't disagree that kids should profit off of their own name if there is a market for that.

I do have issue with the NIL + 1 time transfer combo.

To me, that's where the problems lie. I'm not a fan of kids sitting down at the end of the year and holding NIL deals over their coach's (and essentially teammates'/fans') head. I'd rather just switch over to the schools cutting the checks directly.
Would schools cutting the checks directly change players ability to "hold deals over their coach's heads"?

If schools are paying them, they're employees. Labor law applies; you MIGHT be able to get away with some non-compete language in certain states that could prohibit leaving for a certain subset of schools for a given period of time, but it's unlikely.

Ultimately, these are people whose rights to choose where they go to school and play basketball are very hard to restrict in a legally and morally defensible way. The catalyst for the NIL is that the Supreme Court ruled very decisively that it was illegal for schools to limit player earnings. They also have shot across the bow of the NCAA a number of times about their entire model, and the reason in each case were unjustifiable restrictions the NCAA put in place.

I don't think transfer restrictions are coming back, and I haven't heard a compelling case for them that isn't directly connected to competitive balance.
Last Edited: 12/23/2022 12:24:54 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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rpbobcat
12/23/2022 1:08 PM
From reading the limited information that's been posted, it seems that this
is like "The Knights Of The Raritan".

Its sole purpose is to provide NIL opportunities for O.U. athletes.

But, while O.U. and Boals may be in favor of it, it seems like "The 1804 Sport Collective" isn't part of the University, but a separate entity operating with " assistance of "Blueprint Sports".

As it says on their website "Blueprint Sports was established to create winning opportunities for student athletes and their communities".

No mention of being associated with any university.
Sounds like they deal with the student athletes.
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Bobcat Love
12/23/2022 1:41 PM
This whole thing is beyond stupid. "Hey, let me give to this collective so they can give Jason Carter $10k while he plays Alabama A&M in the non-conference and then leaves for another program the following year....." - that's a gigantic hard pass for almost any kind of lower / lower-middle / middle / upper-middle class alumnae - except the sniffiest of jock sniffers. I mean, if you want Jason Carter to come show your kid how to miss a fallaway 6 footer, I guess it's worth your action.

If you have half a brain or any kind of financial acumen.....you get my point. My god this is past ridiculous.

Even the Walmart Ohio State fans got hot when Gene Smith (moron) started asking them directly for money.
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Bobcat Love
12/23/2022 1:45 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
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FJC31
12/23/2022 2:14 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Last Edited: 12/23/2022 2:16:11 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love
12/23/2022 3:41 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Write the check playa. In the name of (checks notes) "financial literacy."

I'd rather spend my money on (just about anything else) to benefit society.

FJC31: Hey Mark, I gave $350 to the 1804 Sport Collective. Come to my house and shoot baskets with little Jimmy and I.
Mark: Gotta bounce, bro. Coach Oates just hit me up with $500k large. F Jeff Boals.

Also (and I realize this won't make me popular, because nobody here cares about loyalty), I find it rather disingenuous that someone who was all over Butler's cods a few short months ago to leave Ohio, is now asking us to pony up to help him out. Again, hard pass.
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FJC31
12/23/2022 4:07 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Write the check playa. In the name of (checks notes) "financial literacy."

I'd rather spend my money on (just about anything else) to benefit society.

FJC31: Hey Mark, I gave $350 to the 1804 Sport Collective. Come to my house and shoot baskets with little Jimmy and I.
Mark: Gotta bounce, bro. Coach Oates just hit me up with $500k large. F Jeff Boals.

Also (and I realize this won't make me popular, because nobody here cares about loyalty), I find it rather disingenuous that someone who was all over Butler's cods a few short months ago to leave Ohio, is now asking us to pony up to help him out. Again, hard pass.
Based on this response, I imagine you’ve been throwing darts at Groce’s picture for the last decade.
Last Edited: 12/23/2022 4:08:29 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
12/23/2022 5:24 PM
Color me unconvinced this ends up necessary at all.

If whoever runs this thing can raise enough money to move the needle, great. But my guess is we just compete at a level that the NIL won't really reach in a meaningful way.

May well be wrong, but that's my best guess. Anybody have any sense if what The Bobcat Club raises in a year?
Last Edited: 12/23/2022 5:25:47 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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colobobcat66
12/23/2022 6:38 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Color me unconvinced this ends up necessary at all.

If whoever runs this thing can raise enough money to move the needle, great. But my guess is we just compete at a level that the NIL won't really reach in a meaningful way.

May well be wrong, but that's my best guess. Anybody have any sense if what The Bobcat Club raises in a year?
Way less than what some single athletes are getting paid in the NIL universe .
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BuddyLee
12/23/2022 6:50 PM
Unless there is full transparency about which players every dollar is directed to, how can we measure the effectiveness of this collective? Otherwise we're blindly giving money and assuming there will be a trickle down effect that is keeping athletes at Ohio. But will a few hundred extra bucks each actually keep the best players (i.e. Sears, Vanderplas)? Probably not.

So what's the point of all this really. Unless I am misunderstanding, we are just funding pocket cash for athletes on scholarship who can still just leave when they get a better offer on the portal. It doesn't sound like there's much tangible benefit from what I've read so far. Someone please convince me otherwise about the benefit of this for a mid major program.
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Bobcat Love
12/23/2022 7:02 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Write the check playa. In the name of (checks notes) "financial literacy."

I'd rather spend my money on (just about anything else) to benefit society.

FJC31: Hey Mark, I gave $350 to the 1804 Sport Collective. Come to my house and shoot baskets with little Jimmy and I.
Mark: Gotta bounce, bro. Coach Oates just hit me up with $500k large. F Jeff Boals.

Also (and I realize this won't make me popular, because nobody here cares about loyalty), I find it rather disingenuous that someone who was all over Butler's cods a few short months ago to leave Ohio, is now asking us to pony up to help him out. Again, hard pass.
Based on this response, I imagine you’ve been throwing darts at Groce’s picture for the last decade.
O'Shea's. You are a day late and a dollar short. Get out of the deep end of the pool.....
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M.D.W.S.T
12/23/2022 8:23 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
More and more obvious Boals was the "unnamed mid-major coach" mentioned in that CBS article who was basically told to pay $500,000 or you'll lose your player.
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FJC31
12/24/2022 7:22 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Write the check playa. In the name of (checks notes) "financial literacy."

I'd rather spend my money on (just about anything else) to benefit society.

FJC31: Hey Mark, I gave $350 to the 1804 Sport Collective. Come to my house and shoot baskets with little Jimmy and I.
Mark: Gotta bounce, bro. Coach Oates just hit me up with $500k large. F Jeff Boals.

Also (and I realize this won't make me popular, because nobody here cares about loyalty), I find it rather disingenuous that someone who was all over Butler's cods a few short months ago to leave Ohio, is now asking us to pony up to help him out. Again, hard pass.
Based on this response, I imagine you’ve been throwing darts at Groce’s picture for the last decade.
O'Shea's. You are a day late and a dollar short. Get out of the deep end of the pool.....
Brutal. The alternative is to do nothing as a program. It’s a whole new world in college sports, gotta play along.
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colobobcat66
12/24/2022 9:21 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Awesome. This is a step in the right direction recruiting and keeping talent in this new landscape.
Says guy who would have given Mark Sears some money last year, in advance of him telling Boals to F-off the following year. Hey, we all wanted to pay TyQuane Goard too....
I’m sorry, what? You sound bitter, man. Yea, it sucks Sears left but allow me to elaborate on my blanket comment before assuming it’s all about throwing money at players.

Yes, I’m all in favor of having a collective that benefits our student-athletes. This isn’t just about cash transactions. As others have pointed out, it’s about providing partnership opportunities and resources (branding, financial literacy, outside-of-sport development, etc.) for athletes because whether you like it or not; questions around athletes being supported from an NIL standpoint — university or collective, are going to come up in the recruiting process and will also play a part in keeping players.

Will this keep all players from leaving? Absolutely not. But this collective is necessary proactiveness that’s going to help our program moving forward. I find it a little odd I have to point that out.
Write the check playa. In the name of (checks notes) "financial literacy."

I'd rather spend my money on (just about anything else) to benefit society.

FJC31: Hey Mark, I gave $350 to the 1804 Sport Collective. Come to my house and shoot baskets with little Jimmy and I.
Mark: Gotta bounce, bro. Coach Oates just hit me up with $500k large. F Jeff Boals.

Also (and I realize this won't make me popular, because nobody here cares about loyalty), I find it rather disingenuous that someone who was all over Butler's cods a few short months ago to leave Ohio, is now asking us to pony up to help him out. Again, hard pass.
Based on this response, I imagine you’ve been throwing darts at Groce’s picture for the last decade.
O'Shea's. You are a day late and a dollar short. Get out of the deep end of the pool.....
Brutal. The alternative is to do nothing as a program. It’s a whole new world in college sports, gotta play along.
As they say - a day late and a dollar short, but it’s better than nothing I guess.
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El Gato Roberto
12/24/2022 12:16 PM
I don’t fault Boals. His Star recruit, AJ Brown, seems like a player who might get a few NIL offers. The new normal requires NIL if Ohio intends to compete in March, regardless.
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FJC31
12/24/2022 12:26 PM
BuddyLee wrote:expand_more
Unless there is full transparency about which players every dollar is directed to, how can we measure the effectiveness of this collective? Otherwise we're blindly giving money and assuming there will be a trickle down effect that is keeping athletes at Ohio. But will a few hundred extra bucks each actually keep the best players (i.e. Sears, Vanderplas)? Probably not.

So what's the point of all this really. Unless I am misunderstanding, we are just funding pocket cash for athletes on scholarship who can still just leave when they get a better offer on the portal. It doesn't sound like there's much tangible benefit from what I've read so far. Someone please convince me otherwise about the benefit of this for a mid major program.
I’d suggest reaching out to the collective itself to learn about who is involved and what its strategy is. For example, is the plan to have involvement from former players like Preston and Trent? A lot of collectives include previous athletes for credibility to fans/alumni, brands, and current/prospective athletes. I imagine Preston’s and/or Trent’s inclusion would create more openness among those who are uncertain, given their experience as student-athletes and how much they mean to Ohio athletics/basketball.
Last Edited: 12/25/2022 11:57:07 AM by FJC31
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