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Topic: Conference Realignment
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Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 2/8/2012 12:20 PM
A week ago I was accused of insanity at the thought of travelling to Northern Illinois.

In Conference USA, DePaul would be one of the closest trips.

It's a clear choice that the MAC is a comfortable place to be as long as there are no delusions of grandeur.

But then...

It is clear that our current position is only going to be marginalized further as the haves take more for themselves. I'm still confident the endgame will include AQ conferences abandoning NCAA governance and our current league affiliation essentially equivalent to the PSAC.

This may be that moment in which our leaders will have to inhale deeply, close their eyes, and move forward.

I wonder what Vern Alden thinks we should do.
giacomo
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Posted: 2/8/2012 12:52 PM
I would think the MAC presidents and ADs would be talking amongst themselves on this issue. Anyone who want to bolt will have to spend more money and for what? To play Rice instead of Eastern Michigan?
anorris
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Posted: 2/8/2012 12:53 PM
Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
A week ago I was accused of insanity at the thought of travelling to Northern Illinois.

In Conference USA, DePaul would be one of the closest trips.
Then when you get there, you'll be disappointed to discover DePaul is not in C-USA.
OUbobcat9092
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Posted: 2/8/2012 1:09 PM
The most obvious school, other than Marshall, would be East Carolina.

Would make for some great early season trips for our Spring Sports - softball, baseball, track
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 2/8/2012 1:15 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
I would think the MAC presidents and ADs would be talking amongst themselves on this issue. Anyone who want to bolt will have to spend more money and for what? To play Rice instead of Eastern Michigan?


I would rather play anyone instead of Eastern Michigan. The question is what will the per team revenues for C-USA look like after these departures. If it's $6M today and goes to $3M but Ohio's travel costs are increased by $1M, why wouldn't you do it? The MAC has done nothing for Ohio and continues to do nothing for Ohio. If you have a way to get out of a conference based in a dying/stagnating part of the country (Ohio/Michigan), you should do it. There just seems to be no downside to leaving the MAC.
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 2/8/2012 1:29 PM
anorris wrote:expand_more
A week ago I was accused of insanity at the thought of travelling to Northern Illinois.

In Conference USA, DePaul would be one of the closest trips.
Then when you get there, you'll be disappointed to discover DePaul is not in C-USA.


See? I'm borderline INSANE!

So after actual RESEARCH! The next closest CURRENT! CUSA member after Marshall is ECU. Which from Athens is one mile further than NIU.
Last Edited: 2/8/2012 1:34:18 PM by Pete Chouteau
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/8/2012 2:39 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
I would think the MAC presidents and ADs would be talking amongst themselves on this issue. Anyone who want to bolt will have to spend more money and for what? To play Rice instead of Eastern Michigan?


I would rather play anyone instead of Eastern Michigan. The question is what will the per team revenues for C-USA look like after these departures. If it's $6M today and goes to $3M but Ohio's travel costs are increased by $1M, why wouldn't you do it? The MAC has done nothing for Ohio and continues to do nothing for Ohio. If you have a way to get out of a conference based in a dying/stagnating part of the country (Ohio/Michigan), you should do it. There just seems to be no downside to leaving the MAC.


I would say that asking schools to up the ante, at least in basketball, isn't a lot to ask.  The MAC West over the last (how many anorris?) years has brought down the odds of a two-bid league drastically.  EMU and CMU, at least in hoops, are among the worst programs in the country.  The embarrassment that is EMU's attendance and athletics  support is even worse.  At the moment, they're basically a community college next to big brother U of M.  What I don't understand is why that's changed?  When I was in high school, they were outstanding in basketball, and had a fan base.  In Football, it would seem that there's a lot more balance.  If NIU, Toledo, and Western can have football programs, why not all three in basketball?  In the last handful of years only WMU and Ball State have been reasonably relevant in hoops. 

I also go back to a comment I made in another thread - why do we even need divisions i basketball?  They don't service any purpose.
Ohio69
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Posted: 2/8/2012 2:39 PM
Why do people think the MAC hasn't been strategizing or hasn't attempted to make moves?  Is there some email listserv or something I'm not on where the MAC publishes all its failed strategies?

Why do people think the MAC is in any position of power at all?

The MAC is 12-14 schools with small and sometimes non-existent fan bases, in small or non-existent markets, with shoe string budgets, and the bare minimum amount of sports needed to remain D-1 in football.

What's the rallying cry to grab CUSA teams?  Come to the MAC where you can pick up some easy away wins in front of dozens to a few hundred poeple and largely empty student sections?

The MAC is lucky the NCAA allows it remain Div. I in football.  And, sometime soon, it may not.
Last Edited: 2/8/2012 2:43:07 PM by Ohio69
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 2/8/2012 3:10 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Why do people think the MAC hasn't been strategizing or hasn't attempted to make moves?  Is there some email listserv or something I'm not on where the MAC publishes all its failed strategies?

Why do people think the MAC is in any position of power at all?

The MAC is 12-14 schools with small and sometimes non-existent fan bases, in small or non-existent markets, with shoe string budgets, and the bare minimum amount of sports needed to remain D-1 in football.

What's the rallying cry to grab CUSA teams?  Come to the MAC where you can pick up some easy away wins in front of dozens to a few hundred poeple and largely empty student sections?

The MAC is lucky the NCAA allows it remain Div. I in football.  And, sometime soon, it may not.


No conference can make a move without it being reported. So I don't they are trying to make any moves. And you're right, all they have to offer is a safety net. But there are some schools out there who might need a safety net and could improve the league.

And your point about what the MAC is shows why the MAC needs to get smaller, take its strongest franchises and try to improve. As Pete C. mentioned elsewhere, the fear here should not be losing D-1 football. It will be all sports being relegated when some combination of these upper tier conferences form their own athletics organization.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 2/8/2012 3:15 PM
With what's happened to other conferences, the MAC easily could become a stronger football conference than Conference USA and the Mountain West and definitely stronger than the WAC, which was the conference that got absolutely destroyed by realignment. We can be thankful we're not in their position.

The MAC's average football Sagarin rating this past year was 63.31. Conference USA's average rating, minus the four teams it is losing, is 64.63. The Mountain West's rating, with the teams its going to have beginning in 2013, was 60.40. I certainly don't think it'd be worth it to join any of these leagues and I surely don't see Conference USA and the Mountain West merging making them any better quality (it's just that they can play a "championship" game.
Casper71
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Posted: 2/8/2012 3:23 PM
The common sense approach for the MAC is to get stronger by eliminating teams from the bottom.  Then, maybe a Marshall or ECU would be more apt to come knocking.  Right now, it just appears the MAC is doing nothing but adding to the bottom.  Most recent example in football is UMASS.  We have tended to take (some) !AA programs (or whatever they are called)  that (in some cases) win a Championship and then think they will be perennial 1A poswers.  Has NOT happened!  For football, go back to avg of 15k paid for home games or get out.  Or, maybe a Sagrin of better than 100?  Or maybe an RPI less than 200.  Just take some criteria and apply it across the board.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/8/2012 3:26 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
The common sense approach for the MAC is to get stronger by eliminating teams from the bottom.  Then, maybe a Marshall or ECU would be more apt to come knocking.  Right now, it just appears the MAC is doing nothing but adding to the bottom.  Most recent example in football is UMASS.  We have tended to take (some) !AA programs (or whatever they are called)  that (in some cases) win a Championship and then think they will be perennial 1A poswers.  Has NOT happened!  For football, go back to avg of 15k paid for home games or get out.  Or, maybe a Sagrin of better than 100?  Or maybe an RPI less than 200.  Just take some criteria and apply it across the board.


Good thing for us none of this happened 15 years ago.
Casper71
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Posted: 2/8/2012 3:38 PM
Doubt it.  When FB was bad BB was good.  And, we have pretty much always had 15k announced avg for home games.  And, if it happens, it happens.  This is not about a particular institution.  And, it is not about ONE criteria but a number from each of the major sports.  This is not really that hard...just that this Conference sits on its hands and does not act or react to anything.  Again, happy with mediocrity?  Let's Just Do It!
mf279801
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Posted: 2/8/2012 4:08 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
As Pete C. mentioned elsewhere, the fear here should not be losing D-1 football. It will be all sports being relegated when some combination of these upper tier conferences form their own athletics organization.


All the bad outcomes this would have for us aside, it would be pretty funny to watch the remaining NCAA sue the breakaway conferences over any use of such terms as March Madness, Sweet 16, Final 4, etc.
giacomo
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Posted: 2/9/2012 1:46 PM
There will always be a pecking order. Even if we jump to another conference, it doesn't move us up the ladder. Take a look at football budgets in the BCS. Basketball would be easier, as we have a nice arena. But money and our small market hold us back.
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 2/9/2012 4:24 PM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
All the bad outcomes this would have for us aside, it would be pretty funny to watch the remaining NCAA sue the breakaway conferences over any use of such terms as March Madness, Sweet 16, Final 4, etc.


Given the tendency to talk out of both sides of its mouth, who's to say they wouldn't sell the trademarks.
Old Zone
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Posted: 2/11/2012 12:44 PM
Anybody like the consisency of the MAC?  At least we know who's in our conference.
Last Edited: 2/11/2012 12:50:44 PM by Old Zone
Old Zone
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Posted: 2/11/2012 12:46 PM
Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
They have national games of the week on CBS College Sports.


So both of the subscribers to CBS College Sports can watch?
Pataskala
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Posted: 2/11/2012 1:19 PM
Old Zone wrote:expand_more
They have national games of the week on CBS College Sports.


So both of the subscribers to CBS College Sports can watch?


+1

The MAC would be better off cutting a deal with NBC for the channel formerly known as Versus.  At least it's free on DirecTV.
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