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Topic: Sad Akron Story
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Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:36 AM
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StevenHPerry wrote:expand_more


Brilliant reply to JSF's post.
mf279801
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:51 AM
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I blame teachers. When I was coming up through school (graduated high school in 2001), we weren't allowed to use calculators AT ALL in math class until approximately 10th grade, and those were graphing calculators in algerbra 2 (We were allowed to use calculators in chemistry/physics, but those tended to be fairly complicated number combinations). Now, I know from people that I work with that math teachers start planning lessons around simple 4-function calculators starting in 3rd or 4th grade. Damned teachers.







[I'm 80% just stirring the pot here]
DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:14 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I see a lot of claims and no evidence math skills have gotten worse.


Here you go. Also, 1970 was the first year of mass production of the digital wrist watch.  Not sure what happened in 1989 to reverse the trend of falling math scores but from 1970 to 1988 there was a pretty big dip.

http://www.erikthered.com/tutor/sat-act-history.html



This doesn't prove anything. The test has been changed so much it's like comparing apples to oranges. Also, a higher percentage of students are taking the test every year. Of course the scores will be higher when only the best and brightest took the test.

I agree that people make these claims all the time (and sure I've experienced it myself) but there is no evidence that it is getting worse. A large percentage of the population has always been mathematically challenged.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/5/2013 5:02 PM
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DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
I see a lot of claims and no evidence math skills have gotten worse.


Here you go. Also, 1970 was the first year of mass production of the digital wrist watch.  Not sure what happened in 1989 to reverse the trend of falling math scores but from 1970 to 1988 there was a pretty big dip.

http://www.erikthered.com/tutor/sat-act-history.html



This doesn't prove anything. The test has been changed so much it's like comparing apples to oranges. Also, a higher percentage of students are taking the test every year. Of course the scores will be higher when only the best and brightest took the test.

I agree that people make these claims all the time (and sure I've experienced it myself) but there is no evidence that it is getting worse. A large percentage of the population has always been mathematically challenged.


When talking about basic math skills which 695 was in his first post, historically speaking I don't think a large percentage of the population has been mathematically challenged.  Is there any single cause for many younger folks inability to do basic math in their head?  Absolutely not.  I do believe though that some things have contributed to that and digital watches, clocks and calculators are guilty as charged.  Any elementary teacher will tell you that the use of manipulatives  leads to better math performance.  Unfortunately this time tested approach takes longer than many modern methods of instruction and therefore is often not used.
DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/5/2013 7:40 PM
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JSF
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:22 PM
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Can't you read? Watches are destroying our country!
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:29 PM
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For the record, we are not actually talking about basic mathematics skills here but basic arithmetic skills.  There is a difference.  

As the son of a mathematics professor I had to make this clarification.  You might say, "My Dad made me do this!" 
Last Edited: 2/5/2013 11:08:35 PM by OhioCatFan
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:11 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
For the record, we are not actually talking about basic mathematics skills here but basic arithmetic skills.  There is a difference.  

As the son of a mathematics professor I had to say make this clarification.  You might say, "My Dad made me do this!" 


Good point OCF and I think this is what 695 and I were talking about all along.  I just took it a step further and mentioned my belief in digital clocks contributing to that arithmetic problem especially when it comes to basic fractions and simple addition and subtraction.

Maybe we can't get our esteemed 5th grade teacher squared to weigh in on this.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:15 PM
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I understand your point about digital clocks being part of the problem, Alan.  I concur, but also believe that the teaching of basic arithmetic skills at the elementary school level is probably a bigger factor.  I say this as one who, despite his paternal heritage, was not particularly good at learning his multiplication tables in grade school.  My father thought it was youthful rebellion, but truth is I was just not too gifted in this area.  But, I did, eventually, learn these basic skills because they were drilled into me.  My sisters both learned them much more easily and quickly.  But, today, I think, schools often don't even make the effort.  At least that's my perception. 
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 2/6/2013 8:26 AM
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   I've taught  6th-grade math in the past. The state allows 6th-graders to use a calculator on the OAA so I made sure my students were proficient in using one so that they were not at a disadvantage. Calculators are not allowed on the fifth-grade OAA so we rarely use one in the classroom. The importance of learning multiplication facts, like many things in education, goes in cycles. Knowing multiplication facts by rote, IMO, is the basis for just about everything else you do in math.

      I stress with my students the importance of being strong with mental math and paper-and-pencil math with the belief that there are times and places for using a calculator.
Last Edited: 2/6/2013 8:30:36 AM by bobcatsquared
DelBobcat
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Posted: 2/6/2013 8:26 AM
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I'll concede to your point about the difference between arithmetic and mathematics. Yes, we are talking about arithmetic here. But there is still no evidence that today's generation is lacking in arithmetic compared to former generations. This, despite the fact that one can argue that arithmetic skills have become less and less important.
Ohio69
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Posted: 2/6/2013 11:27 AM
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Seems to me Americans have complained about the lack of arithmatic skills in "these kids today" since around 1776.

I tend to blame everything on rock-n-roll myself.
Last Edited: 2/6/2013 11:29:01 AM by Ohio69
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/6/2013 12:08 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Seems to me Americans have complained about the lack of arithmatic skills in "these kids today" since around 1776.

I tend to blame everything on rock-n-roll myself.


Yes and they've been complaining about spelling too.
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