Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Ivo Baltic
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 2/13/2013 11:09 PM
west side cat wrote:expand_more
My guess is that most people who criticize people on these boards are damn lucky they don't have message boards for their places of employment or their classrooms where people could pick them apart.


I do. It honestly isn't that big of a deal. I do love it when they post my email exchanges with them verbatim, however, as if they'd discovered the Pentagon Papers when I explain why we didn't have the manpower to cover a cross country meet 50 miles away on a Saturday morning.

The internet is awesome.
Last Edited: 2/13/2013 11:09:40 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
RSBobcat
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Posted: 2/13/2013 11:12 PM
Jim G wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ohio/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/History_and_Records.pdf
*shows only players from 1947 to present

You can find every player ever for the Bobcats here. Can you find 50 better?


Career - 4.7 rebound avg, 7.7 pts avg.

(DJ Cooper, w/half a leg less hgt, has 4.4 career rebound avg.)

He has been a Very Valuable Contributor on some Great TEAMS. They also play a LOT more games a year than vast majority of those 100 yrs. - have to consider that when looking at career totals. Career Avg's tell me a lot more when it comes to these kind of comparisons - plus - who they were playin' with.

Would love to see records for Bobcat Player of the Game, MAC Player of the Week, etc...............




LuckySparrow
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Posted: 2/13/2013 11:26 PM
Looked much more confident and efficient (less moves, better spins)  tonight. Had some bad misses on those reverse layups and gimmies in the paint. I really liked what I saw, offensively, despite being 4-12 from the field. 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:33 AM
Do not cite statistics which are not revealing.

Judge on big moments, activity vs. legit opponents.

That may show excellence or not-so-excellence.  But the standard needs to be set right.
JSF
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Posted: 2/14/2013 7:28 AM
west side cat wrote:expand_more
My guess is that most people who criticize people on these boards are damn lucky they don't have message boards for their places of employment or their classrooms where people could pick them apart.


If you work in a classroom, the kids tend to criticize you to your face. No Internet needed.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:40 AM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Career - 4.7 rebound avg, 7.7 pts avg.

(DJ Cooper, w/half a leg less hgt, has 4.4 career rebound avg.)


Do you think that might have something to do with Cooper having more than 1,500 more minutes played?
bobcat28
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:41 AM
Jim G wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ohio/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/History_and_Records.pdf
*shows only players from 1947 to present

You can find every player ever for the Bobcats here. Can you find 50 better?


I can only start from the Gary Trent era until present. Here are some:

Gary Trent
Geno Ford
Sanjay Adell?
Curtis Simmons
Shaun Stonerook
Brandon Hunter
Mychal Green
Sonny Troutman
Leon Williams
Jerome Tillman
Armon Basset
DJ Cooper
Tommy Freeman
Devaughn Washington
Walt Offut?
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:47 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Career - 4.7 rebound avg, 7.7 pts avg.

(DJ Cooper, w/half a leg less hgt, has 4.4 career rebound avg.)


Do you think that might have something to do with Cooper having more than 1,500 more minutes played?


Has more to do with the fact that Coop has been one of the best recounding PG s in history. PG s are expected to be around the basket to get the outlet. They never are expected to be the off guard that balances the floor but they are rarely as aggressive to the ball as Coop has been
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:47 AM
I wasn't able to watch the game but could listen to part of the 2nd half on Power 105.  It's good to hear Ivo looking to get into the paint more and being more aggressive and assertive.  As I said before, he is going to be very important down the stretch and we need him to not disappear offensively.

As for folks disliking an open criticism of a player, I think it's more than a little hypocritical to frown upon this and not on the many threads I have seen since the start of the season with open criticism of Coach Christian.  Complaining about his demeanor, his rotations, and lately questioning his practice teachings with regards to rebounding.  All this for a coach who has his team 18-6 and with the best conference record OU has had at this point in the season in a long, long time. 
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:52 AM
bobcat28 wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.


I can only start from the Gary Trent era until present. Here are some:

Gary Trent
Geno Ford
Sanjay Adell?
Curtis Simmons
Shaun Stonerook
Brandon Hunter
Mychal Green
Sonny Troutman
Leon Williams
Jerome Tillman
Armon Basset
DJ Cooper
Tommy Freeman
Devaughn Washington
Walt Offut?


Steve Esterkamp is a massive oversight from your list.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:58 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I
As for folks disliking an open criticism of a player, I think it's more than a little hypocritical to frown upon this and not on the many threads I have seen since the start of the season with open criticism of Coach Christian.  Complaining about his demeanor, his rotations, and lately questioning his practice teachings with regards to rebounding.  All this for a coach who has his team 18-6 and with the best conference record OU has had at this point in the season in a long, long time. 


I dunno about the criticism of the player vs a coach holds much water in the arena of hypocrisy but I do think it is what most astute or rabid fanbases do....

Every legit basketball power with a fanbase holds players and coaches responsible. That is how you know the players from the posers in the big picture of successful programs. . I just take it as a sign that this program is becoming a force in college hoops. Higher expectations of the individuals. Bang for the buck.

I wll continue to say it. We should dominate the MAC every year, We should swing for the fences with recruits, We should never be even close to another conference peer in attendance. The fanbase should continue to grow both in size and BBIQ. We should not ever put ourselves in a place to regress.

Criticism just shows that folks are caring about the program and becoming passionate. Game is to avoid becoming idiots with continued success as many who have gone before us have done.
Last Edited: 2/14/2013 8:59:12 AM by bornacatfan
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/14/2013 9:05 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.


I can only start from the Gary Trent era until present. Here are some:

Gary Trent
Geno Ford
Sanjay Adell?
Curtis Simmons
Shaun Stonerook
Brandon Hunter
Mychal Green
Sonny Troutman
Leon Williams
Jerome Tillman
Armon Basset
DJ Cooper
Tommy Freeman
Devaughn Washington
Walt Offut?


Steve Esterkamp is a massive oversight from your list.


Basra Fakhir
Patrick Flomo

Might be reaching a bit with Basra.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:05 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.


I can only start from the Gary Trent era until present. Here are some:

Gary Trent
Geno Ford
Sanjay Adell?
Curtis Simmons
Shaun Stonerook
Brandon Hunter
Mychal Green
Sonny Troutman
Leon Williams
Jerome Tillman
Armon Basset
DJ Cooper
Tommy Freeman
Devaughn Washington
Walt Offut?


Steve Esterkamp is a massive oversight from your list.


There is at least one player on this list that cannot match the career numbers of IVO in either category listed.
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:25 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
I wasn't able to watch the game but could listen to part of the 2nd half on Power 105.  It's good to hear Ivo looking to get into the paint more and being more aggressive and assertive.  As I said before, he is going to be very important down the stretch and we need him to not disappear offensively.
 


I also only caught some of the game on Power 105. In the first half I was driving home my son's HS basketball practice carpool with the game on and when Russ described Ivo making a spin and getting a reverse layup I turned to my son and said "Ivo attacked the rim!"  We were very pleased.
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:28 AM
Russ had a great bit when Jon Smith had a put-back dunk.  I believe his line was "Jon Smith...oh the strength!!!" I laughed out loud hysterically when I heard that.
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:28 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I
As for folks disliking an open criticism of a player, I think it's more than a little hypocritical to frown upon this and not on the many threads I have seen since the start of the season with open criticism of Coach Christian.  Complaining about his demeanor, his rotations, and lately questioning his practice teachings with regards to rebounding.  All this for a coach who has his team 18-6 and with the best conference record OU has had at this point in the season in a long, long time. 


I dunno about the criticism of the player vs a coach holds much water in the arena of hypocrisy but I do think it is what most astute or rabid fanbases do....

Every legit basketball power with a fanbase holds players and coaches responsible. That is how you know the players from the posers in the big picture of successful programs. . I just take it as a sign that this program is becoming a force in college hoops. Higher expectations of the individuals. Bang for the buck.

I wll continue to say it. We should dominate the MAC every year, We should swing for the fences with recruits, We should never be even close to another conference peer in attendance. The fanbase should continue to grow both in size and BBIQ. We should not ever put ourselves in a place to regress.

Criticism just shows that folks are caring about the program and becoming passionate. Game is to avoid becoming idiots with continued success as many who have gone before us have done.


+1
OUVan
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:39 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Has more to do with the fact that Coop has been one of the best recounding PG s in history. PG s are expected to be around the basket to get the outlet. They never are expected to be the off guard that balances the floor but they are rarely as aggressive to the ball as Coop has been


While I agree that Cooper is an extraordinary rebounder for his size Baltic has nearly double the rebounds per minute.  If both played 35 minutes Baltic would average 7.33 rebounds while Cooper would average 4.59.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:46 AM
It was great to see Ivo trying to take it to the basket last night.  He made some good plays, but also looked a little rusty in the paint.  I hope he continues this vs. Kent Saturday.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 4:01 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Russ had a great bit when Jon Smith had a put-back dunk.  I believe his line was "Jon Smith...oh the strength!!!" I laughed out loud hysterically when I heard that.


The CMU announcers suggested Smith begin a milkshake and burger diet.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 5:45 PM
I came away from last night's game convinced that Ivo is avoiding contact under the rim so he doesn't have to shoot FTs.  He looks scared at the line.



JSF
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Posted: 2/14/2013 7:30 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Name 50 players in Ohio Bobcats 100 plus years of history better than Ivo Baltic.


I can only start from the Gary Trent era until present. Here are some:

Gary Trent
Geno Ford
Sanjay Adell?
Curtis Simmons
Shaun Stonerook
Brandon Hunter
Mychal Green
Sonny Troutman
Leon Williams
Jerome Tillman
Armon Basset
DJ Cooper
Tommy Freeman
Devaughn Washington
Walt Offut?


Steve Esterkamp is a massive oversight from your list.


There is at least one player on this list that cannot match the career numbers of IVO in either category listed.


I'm sorry, which categories?
OUVan
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:40 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Has more to do with the fact that Coop has been one of the best recounding PG s in history. PG s are expected to be around the basket to get the outlet. They never are expected to be the off guard that balances the floor but they are rarely as aggressive to the ball as Coop has been


The other thing about Cooper is his anticipation and vision.  Nobody sees the floor like he does and I think it helps in his rebounding.  It seems almost all his rebounds are similar. He isn't outmuscling or outfighting guys. He just knows where the ball is going.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:22 PM
JSF, most of the guys on the list played some defense.  i don't think ayone is saying ivo doesn't have some nice stats.  It's the overall approach to the game that frustrates people and makes him not as popular/good as at least 50 other players in te history of Ohio baskeball.  Most on here probably only include guys in the modern era as better than ivo but thee were guys in the 1940 that some would also say probably were better than ivo.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:36 PM
At this point of a guy's career, aren't you past the point in trying to reform him and at the point where you take his positives and blow those out? Ivo Baltic is a really nice piece for a team that has a lot of other options. And when shots are going down for the guards, Ohio has a lot of options. In a game like Michigan last year, Baltic can carry you by knocking down jumpers that he's always going to be able to get because of his size and at least the threat of him going around his larger, clunkier defender (even if he rarely actually drives anymore). I like him off the bench and I like that he's a player who as the fourth or fifth option has experience being a major scorer at other parts of his career.  He's like Sonny Troutman in that sense -- a guy who drifted away from being a focal point but is still there when you need him.
Last Edited: 2/14/2013 11:37:07 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 2/15/2013 2:00 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I
As for folks disliking an open criticism of a player, I think it's more than a little hypocritical to frown upon this and not on the many threads I have seen since the start of the season with open criticism of Coach Christian.  Complaining about his demeanor, his rotations, and lately questioning his practice teachings with regards to rebounding.  All this for a coach who has his team 18-6 and with the best conference record OU has had at this point in the season in a long, long time. 


I dunno about the criticism of the player vs a coach holds much water in the arena of hypocrisy but I do think it is what most astute or rabid fanbases do....

Every legit basketball power with a fanbase holds players and coaches responsible. That is how you know the players from the posers in the big picture of successful programs. . I just take it as a sign that this program is becoming a force in college hoops. Higher expectations of the individuals. Bang for the buck.

I wll continue to say it. We should dominate the MAC every year, We should swing for the fences with recruits, We should never be even close to another conference peer in attendance. The fanbase should continue to grow both in size and BBIQ. We should not ever put ourselves in a place to regress.

Criticism just shows that folks are caring about the program and becoming passionate. Game is to avoid becoming idiots with continued success as many who have gone before us have done.


The highlighted.  Plus, first and foremost, it's about the defense that we play.  We can win with Ivo's offense at better or not better.  We can't win (games that count) unless our D is solid.
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