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Topic: Team Chemistry Much Better Than Last Year ...
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MiamiBlowsChunks
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Posted: 11/22/2013 10:36 AM
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Geez, this story kinda of explains why last year's team didn't meet expectations. Wonder how team chemistry was in 2011-12?

http://thepost.ohiou.edu/content/mens-basketball-new-team-chemistry-balances-equation-%E2%80%98cats
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/22/2013 11:14 AM
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Kellogg quote -

“You can have all the talent and skill in the world,” he (Kellogg) said. “But if you’re not a close-knit group, if you guys don’t have each other’s backs, you’re just not going to be as successful. We’ve learned that the hard way with having those guys last year.”

Wow.
OU_Country
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Posted: 11/22/2013 11:37 AM
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Not something I really expected to read about.  I actually believed the chemistry was okay the last couple years. 

EDIT:  Makes you wonder where the issues could have been.  You do occasionally see guys from last year's team tweeting with a couple guys from this year's team still.
Last Edited: 11/22/2013 11:48:55 AM by OU_Country
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 11/22/2013 11:47 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Not something I really expected to read about.  I actually believed the chemistry was okay the last couple years.

I think the players quoted in the story do a nice job explaining where the chemistry issues showed themselves. Last year's team was talent laden, but prone to mailing in certain games (Belmont and Denver come to mind) and failing to respond well to adversity. I can't think of one time they overcame a significant run by the opposition (two blown leads in the regular season against Akron stand out the most, but there were other examples).

Nothing in this story surprises me.

 
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 11/22/2013 12:33 PM
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MiamiBlowsChunks wrote:expand_more
Geez, this story kinda of explains why last year's team didn't meet expectations. Wonder how team chemistry was in 2011-12?

http://thepost.ohiou.edu/content/mens-basketball-new-team-chemistry-balances-equation-%E2%80%98cats


Wow!  I didn't know there were those kind of chemistry issues last year either.  And I wonder too-since a majority of the players at issue in 2012-2013 were part of the Sweet 16 team the year before, were there chemistry issues then too?  Did Groce just do such a great coaching job that he was able overcome those issues by browbeating it out of them?  Not being sarcastic at all, I'm just wondering.

Regardless, it's great to see that there's better chemistry on the team this year.
Last Edited: 11/22/2013 12:39:03 PM by Mark Lembright '85
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 11/22/2013 1:14 PM
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Team may include the player-coach relationship. I thought it was obvious and understandable at the time that there were frictions on that front.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 11/22/2013 1:16 PM
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Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
  Did Groce just do such a great coaching job that he was able overcome those issues by browbeating it out of them?  Not being sarcastic at all, I'm just wondering.
.


Groce is a team builder. He understands all for one and one for all, gets great buy in without brow beating. Roles get accepted through team and individual meetings, the tone he sets and the activities he has guys participate in....the same things he did with our ROTC and organizations over the years he took to the next post . Team building in his world in inclusive from top to bottom. (see pix.) 

The coaching change was accompanied by a culture change. Simple. Guys reverted to their more natural dispositions and self absorbed agendas. High talent or high potential guys do not always have the best interest of the group at hand. This group of guys, unlike the previous bunch actually likes each other. YOu can see it on the floor, in the locker room, at the tailgates and up on Court Street.


Last Edited: 11/22/2013 1:19:21 PM by bornacatfan
OU_Country
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Posted: 11/22/2013 1:38 PM
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These examples demonstrate why most of us loved John Groce.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 11/22/2013 2:00 PM
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WOW!!!!  Thanks Bornacatfan.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 11/22/2013 2:20 PM
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not speaking to last year's group specifically but jut as a general statement, team chemistry issues aren't always just about the veterans being poor leaders, sometimes it can be about the young guys being poor followers. Often the truth is somewhere in the middle.
TheBobcatBandit
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Posted: 11/22/2013 2:46 PM
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Often times some people just don't get along. conflicting personalities etc.. It may not be that they were bad leader or that they argued and it may be they just didn't have similar interest outside of bball.
Mike Bundt WHIZ
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Posted: 11/22/2013 2:48 PM
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This isn't surprising to me at all. I thought it was obvious.

I heard many stories from people that had connections with players on the team. I think watching how some of the individuals performed that it showed.
Last Edited: 11/22/2013 2:51:59 PM by Mike Bundt WHIZ
DelBobcat
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Posted: 11/22/2013 3:03 PM
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I know there was at least one player that faded away from a leadership role. Get it? Fade away? 
FearLeon
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Posted: 11/22/2013 4:34 PM
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Sure looked like Walt pulled a TT in the Denver game.


cc-cat
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Posted: 11/22/2013 4:35 PM
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[QUOTE]
Did Groce just do such a great coaching job that he was able overcome those issues by browbeating it out of them?  Not being sarcastic at all, I'm just wondering.

Regardless, it's great to see that there's better chemistry on the team this year.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but senior leadership goes along ways.  Take Tommy, etc. out of the picture and the chemistry changes.
Last Edited: 11/22/2013 4:38:06 PM by cc-cat
mcbin
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Posted: 11/22/2013 4:46 PM
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This isn't too surprising to me. If you notice, some of the assistants are actually (visibly) coaching this year's team. Last year there seemed quite a bit of tentativeness, and you knew something was amiss. Not a knock on anyone past or present, not players nor coaches. We've all had jobs I assume where the new manager comes in and things aren't the same. Some perform better, some worse, and some indifferent.
LongDistancebobcat
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Posted: 11/22/2013 6:27 PM
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DJ was a great player and had terrific numbers, but he was not easy on his teammates.  Much of Kellogg's problems were tied into DJ after him if he missed shots.  It put pressure on him that doesn't exist this year.  We've already seen the difference.
Tom Valentino
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Posted: 11/23/2013 12:42 AM
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This story bothers me. Not the article itself - Christian Hoppens did a great job getting veteran players to speak very candidly about sensitive issues within the program, which is not always easy to do.

What bothers me is seeing players so freely throw their former teammates under the bus. We could all see something was off last year. Given what last year's seniors accomplished under Groce in their first three years, it had to be crushing to have him leave after the Sweet 16. You would hope they could band together for one more run, but it didn't click.

Anyway, my point here is that it's great that this year's team has such strong chemistry already. But discussing it doesn't require taking shots at arguably the best class in team history in the process.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/23/2013 7:55 AM
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Tom Valentino wrote:expand_more
This story bothers me. Not the article itself - Christian Hoppens did a great job getting veteran players to speak very candidly about sensitive issues within the program, which is not always easy to do.

What bothers me is seeing players so freely throw their former teammates under the bus. We could all see something was off last year. Given what last year's seniors accomplished under Groce in their first three years, it had to be crushing to have him leave after the Sweet 16. You would hope they could band together for one more run, but it didn't click.

Anyway, my point here is that it's great that this year's team has such strong chemistry already. But discussing it doesn't require taking shots at arguably the best class in team history in the process.
what you said makes a lot of sense to me. I'm surprised they're so open about it. We'll see how this team turns out before we put too much credence to what they're saying. It may just be wishfull thinking.
Last Edited: 11/23/2013 7:55:36 AM by colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/23/2013 8:25 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
This story bothers me. Not the article itself - Christian Hoppens did a great job getting veteran players to speak very candidly about sensitive issues within the program, which is not always easy to do.

What bothers me is seeing players so freely throw their former teammates under the bus. We could all see something was off last year. Given what last year's seniors accomplished under Groce in their first three years, it had to be crushing to have him leave after the Sweet 16. You would hope they could band together for one more run, but it didn't click.

Anyway, my point here is that it's great that this year's team has such strong chemistry already. But discussing it doesn't require taking shots at arguably the best class in team history in the process.

what you said makes a lot of sense to me. I'm surprised they're so open about it. We'll see how this team turns out before we put too much credence to what they're saying. It may just be wishfull thinking.


The fact they are so open about it, may show just how bad the situation was.
Last Edited: 11/23/2013 8:26:18 AM by A-townBound
bornacatfan
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Posted: 11/23/2013 10:33 AM
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Tom Valentino wrote:expand_more
This story bothers me. ...

What bothers me is seeing players so freely throw their former teammates under the bus.
\.


I don't see them throwing them under the bus at all. THey answered the question quite eloquently....actually avoiding details, names and accusations. Just calmly stated unemotional facts as they see them devoid of rambling.

In my eyes we may have had a glimpse at what true leadership is LAST year. When a guy sees his role on the team and accepts it rather than creating a scene in the locker room and ripping the team apart .....that would be my definition of bbiq and leadership.  THAT very scene has gone on since DJ hit campus in one form or another. Leadership is not necessarily vocal or conferred...it is most definitely felt in actions and sometimes through lack of words and conflict. Adjusting your own role to fit the needs of the team and more importantly ....a team mate......that's a guy who gets it. 


 

Last Edited: 11/23/2013 10:34:44 AM by bornacatfan
mcbin
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Posted: 11/23/2013 10:37 AM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I don't see them throwing them under the bus at all. THey answered the question quite eloquently....actually avoiding details, names and accusations. Just calmly stated unemotional facts as they see them devoid of rambling.


Same here. No names. No what ifs, hard feelings, etc. Pretty matter of fact and then dropping it. I appreciate how it was addressed.
OUVan
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Posted: 11/23/2013 11:22 AM
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At this point it's all just talk anyway.  This team hasn't really had enough of a track record to determine if they have any better chemistry.  Things are all warm and fuzzy now but that can change pretty quickly with some of the tough bus rides they have ahead of them.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 11/23/2013 12:47 PM
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Chemistry is a two way street, there isn't a problem with the way someone acts unless someone thinks there's a problem with the way they act. I don't see Kellogg as throwing anyone under the bus, I see him admitting that as a team last year they didn't respond to each other as well as they should. That's on everybody.

Unless Ethan Jacobs was the glue that held the whole team together or Kadeem Green was the biggest locker room cancer since Terrell Owens last year's group was exactly the same as the team that went to the Sweet 16. New Coaches, new leadership, super high expectations, to say it didn't work and that people didn't gel is not about blaming others, its about accepting responsibility. I think Kellogg handled it correctly. Gald to see that they were mature enough to recognize what happened last year and addressed it. I hope the leaders of our football team next year are as successful.
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Posted: 11/23/2013 1:42 PM
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Because this was shared on the football board, I replied over there, but it's really more appropriate here.

I agree  that it's easy to talk about how the good the chemistry is after preseason and four games in. I'm glad the team is proud of their chemistry and I hope it keeps up, but I don't think it's healthy to keep harping on whatever went wrong last year. Seems like the players and coaches want to take every opportunity to rip on last years core. Not helping anything or anyone.
Last Edited: 11/23/2013 1:44:47 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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