Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: How good are we?
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bornacatfan
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Posted: 8/27/2013 8:55 AM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I think there were four D-I basketball players on the 2006 Dunbar team: Daequan Cook and Norris Cole, who you mentioned, and also Aaron Pogue, who ended up at Cleveland State after going to a JUCO, and Josh Benson, who went to Dayton.

In addition, Mark Anderson went to a JUCO and was supposed to transfer to Miami, but that didn't work out. I don't think it was because he didn't have D-I talent. Darran Powell played football at Cincinnati, although he was not on scholarship.''


YOu are correct UpSan. I saw that DUnbar team and the 05/07 teams several times, Greg Oden's little brother played on the Wolves and Big Aaron Pogue played with Tommy and Jeff Teague on Indy Heat Summer teams.. L watched the 06 team take apart a 1 loss Tipp City team at Wright State. I tried to tell the Red Devil Faithful that you can't play INdian Lake, Bellefountaine and beat up on a bunch of nobodies all year. and expect to be ready to come into the SOuthwest District and compete. Back in the days of the SWBL TC was in a league with Northmont, Trotwood, West Carrollton and regularly played Piqua., Troy and others. Anyone, Anytime, Anywhere has given way to "well we won our league again" leaving them untested come tourney time.

I was at Richmond (IN) HS talking to the HC the other day  recounting games in the early 70's where Dunbar and Richmond played. Those early 70's Dunbar teams sent a lot of guys to college .....and more to be playground legends due to grades...... but they played over the top, high flying basketball where the ball often never touched the floor on fast breaks.  After growing up watching the Wolves, one of the most significant memories I have came at Xavier camp the day that JG and Matta left for tO$U. Muncie Central was playing Dunbar in a summer HS camp game. The 05 Central team that went on to face Greg Oden/Mike Conley in the State Finals went up against Dequan/Aaron and Norris. Bearcats hit 12  3 's in the first quarter. By halftime it was ridiculous and the ever present WOlves turning on each other that has been a hallmark of undisciplined players banded together had them blaming and pointing fingers at each other. COach Pullum pulled them off the floor and took them home at halftime. That Dunbar team went on to great success but it took a little lustre off the Dunbar legend for me. Grades and character have never been the hallmark of the program.

Sorry to hijack the thread but there are a lot of good memories out there.
Last Edited: 8/27/2013 8:57:39 AM by bornacatfan
RSBobcat
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Posted: 11/27/2013 12:29 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a winner RS ...I am in.


Interesting looking back on the last few years. I hope you are right because a couple of points inthe NCAA is huge. I remember younger days watching Dayton Dunbar putting up a hundred points regularly and Jack Prater's Tipp City teams runnig a full court press and hitting 90's on a regualr basis long before the 3 pt line. They did that with defense and run outs..


Looking back at the past few years. 72.5 (53rd) is up from 12' where we were at 70.2 (118th) but down from 74.4 (44th) a,d 74.7 (53rd) in 10'.  JC's Can't team that won the MAC and lost to PITT in the first round was at 68 and change and 167th in the NCAA. By comparison TOS final year was 67.7 and 197th in the NCAA.

SOunds like I will see you on the road. Gotta go do some Hot Dog research on this slow Dog Days Saturday.

Six games in avg 74.3. Yeah it's early........but I like it.

 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 11/27/2013 12:58 AM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more

Six games in avg 74.3. Yeah it's early........but I like it.

 


I remarked on this both in the COnvo and in the chatroom. We are not rim running bigs like Devo, KVK and Baltic under JG nor are we running the screen off the wing or kick to the corner...... but our guards are pushing way faster than DJ did on a consistent basis. Always made me a bit crazy when JG talked pre game, post game, in impromptu conversations, in conversations with players, recruits, coaches ....i. e. almost everyone how he wanted to push tempo ...yet DJ walked the ball up the court. You do not see that with this team. ST, Hall, Rico, Bean,,,everyone including Ndour is putting the ball on the floor or advancing with a fast pass off the rb or the make. I am pleased and surprised. I like it too. Like someone said a lonnnnng time ago and it is pretty consistent. ....MAC schedule will take possessions off that number and slow us down....but for now.....You like Mustard, Kraut, relish.....what? 
Last Edited: 11/27/2013 12:59:23 AM by bornacatfan
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 11/27/2013 9:03 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more

Six games in avg 74.3. Yeah it's early........but I like it.

 


I remarked on this both in the COnvo and in the chatroom. We are not rim running bigs like Devo, KVK and Baltic under JG nor are we running the screen off the wing or kick to the corner...... but our guards are pushing way faster than DJ did on a consistent basis. Always made me a bit crazy when JG talked pre game, post game, in impromptu conversations, in conversations with players, recruits, coaches ....i. e. almost everyone how he wanted to push tempo ...yet DJ walked the ball up the court. You do not see that with this team. ST, Hall, Rico, Bean,,,everyone including Ndour is putting the ball on the floor or advancing with a fast pass off the rb or the make. I am pleased and surprised. I like it too. Like someone said a lonnnnng time ago and it is pretty consistent. ....MAC schedule will take possesions off that number and slow us down....but for now.....You like Mustard, Kraut, relish.....what? 

I have like the ball movement AND the movement with the ball this year and could not quite place what the difference was.  Thanks bornacatfan for the observation of the walking the ball down the floor aspect.  Still some comments about the lack of assists but that is a reflection of what players are doing once they get the ball and not so much a reflection of the lack of passing (at least from my observations).  More players are making a move with the ball off a pass instead of waiting at a spot and the bigs are creating shots as well.   As this continues there will be more open looks for assists but why worry when what we are doing is working now.  Yep-MAC play will be different but like others before me..I LIKE IT SO FAR.
OUVan
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Posted: 11/27/2013 9:14 AM
bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
Still some comments about the lack of assists but that is a reflection of what players are doing once they get the ball and not so much a reflection of the lack of passing (at least from my observations). 


I think it's also a reflection on the way the refs are now calling the games.  There are a lot more drives to the hoop since it's much more difficult to stop.
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 11/27/2013 10:22 AM
Good point on the change in foul calling on drives. Taking advantage of the system is also a good start.
OUVan
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Posted: 11/27/2013 10:24 AM
bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
Good point on the change in foul calling on drives. Taking advantage of the system is also a good start.


I think we saw the light go on over TJ's head the last couple of games.  Ricardo got it early on and has been aggressive doing it from the get go but TJ is now starting to find his groove and driving more.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/27/2013 11:11 AM
After the discussion earlier in the thread about Mike Haley, I can't resist the opportunity to say that he is one of my all-time favorite Bobcats.  My admiration him started when his PHS team won the state championship his senior year.  After the televised game, Jimmy Crum, ever the OSU apologist, asks him if he wouldn't like playing in this wonderful gym -- St. John Arena -- next year.  He asked the question as though he was trying to do recruiting for Coach Taylor.  Mike's answer was priceless.  It went something like this, "Well, this is a nice place, but I'm going to play down in Athens for Ohio University."  Whereupon, Crum says something on the order of,  "Oh, that's a great school, too.  In fact, I graduated from Ohio University."   The calm way that Mike answered the question and the shocked look on Crummy Jim's face are priceless Bobcat memories.  And, then there's the way our tiny forward kept stealing the ball away from UK's All-American center Cotton Nash in Ohio's 85-69 victory in the NCAA tournament that made me so proud that Mike was a Bobcat.

On a related matter, there was much discussion of Dunbar High.  It was mentioned that their athletes weren't known for academic excellence.  This is too bad, since Dunbar High is named after Paul Lawrence Dunbar, an African American writer, who can be considered Ohio's unofficial poet laureate.  An interesting piece of Dayton trivia is that Orville Wright and Paul Dunbar were good friends in school and tutored each other.
Last Edited: 11/27/2013 11:26:44 AM by OhioCatFan
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/27/2013 2:21 PM
I haven't seen any live action this year, only highlights.  I saw a lot of games last year.

Based on that poor sampling of this year:  Last year, guy's wanted to score...five individuals more than a team.  This year, the guys just seem to want a score...don't care who gets the points so long as the team does.  You likey.

 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 11/28/2013 10:36 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
.  An interesting piece of Dayton trivia is that Orville Wright and Paul Dunbar were good friends in school and tutored each other.


A thread hijack here to be sure

If you were to research the Dunbar HS across the land across time you would find they were historically the best the Black community had to offer under Jim Crow laws. THe best teachers flocked there . Washington DC Dunbar alumni history is staggering. THey incorporated their history into the newly completed building. Dayton is the same way. SPectacular alumni history. Unfortunately, that side of town is just eeeeshhh at this point. Good reading

And as long as we are doing Dayton Trivia ..I am in....Let's make this a team game.....like the Brain game on TV. I choose Ted, Joe Mckinley and Dr McDavis for my team and .....we take "Victorian era Silicon Valley"for 200 Alex
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/28/2013 11:29 AM
Thanks for additional information and your contribution to thread drift, a proud BA  tradition!

I really was only slightly aware of the other Dunbar high schools.  I read your links and they were very interesting.  I found it strange that they didn't actually mention who Paul Lawrence Dunbar was in all their rendition of their proud history.  Several years ago one of my daughters gave me a book of Dunbar's poems.  I found them quite interesting.  My favorite is one called, "The Colored Soldiers," it is dedicated to Dunbar's father who fought in the Late Rebellion. 

I think you've picked a good team there!  What I'll do is pick the best athletes from the 25,000+ amateur radio operators who attend the Dayton Hamvention each year.  I haven't missed in one in over 25 years.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/28/2013 11:35 AM
The Colored Soldiers
by Paul Lawrence Dunbar


If the muse were mine to tempt it
And my feeble voice were strong,
If my tongue were trained to measures,
I would sing a stirring song.
I would sing a song heroic
Of those noble sons of Ham,
Of the gallant colored soldiers
Who fought for Uncle Sam!

In the early days you scorned them,
And with many a flip and flout
Said "These battles are the white man's,
And the whites will fight them out."
Up the hills you fought and faltered,
In the vales you strove and bled,
While your ears still heard the thunder
Of the foes' advancing tread.

Then distress fell on the nation,
And the flag was drooping low;
Should the dust pollute your banner?
No! the nation shouted, No!
So when War, in savage triumph,
Spread abroad his funeral pall--
Then you called the colored soldiers,
And they answered to your call.

And like hounds unleashed and eager
For the life blood of the prey,
Sprung they forth and bore them bravely
In the thickest of the fray.
And where'er the fight was hottest,
Where the bullets fastest fell,
There they pressed unblanched and fearless
At the very mouth of hell.

Ah, they rallied to the standard
To uphold it by their might;
None were stronger in the labors,
None were braver in the fight.
From the blazing breach of Wagner
To the plains of Olustee,
They were foremost in the fight
Of the battles of the free.

And at Pillow! God have mercy
On the deeds committed there,
And the souls of those poor victims
Sent to Thee without a prayer.
Let the fulness of Thy pity
O'er the hot wrought spirits sway
Of the gallant colored soldiers
Who fell fighting on that day!

Yes, the Blacks enjoy their freedom,
And they won it dearly, too;
For the life blood of their thousands
Did the southern fields bedew.
In the darkness of their bondage,
In the depths of slavery's night,
Their muskets flashed the dawning,
And they fought their way to light.

They were comrades then and brothers,
Are they more or less to-day?
They were good to stop a bullet
And to front the fearful fray.
They were citizens and soldiers,
When rebellion raised its head;
And the traits that made them worthy,--
Ah! those virtues are not dead.

They have shared your nightly vigils,
They have shared your daily toil;
And their blood with yours commingling
Has enriched the Southern soil.

They have slept and marched and suffered
'Neath the same dark skies as you,
They have met as fierce a foeman,
And have been as brave and true.

And their deeds shall find a record
In the registry of Fame;
For their blood has cleansed completely
Every blot of Slavery's shame.
So all honor and all glory
To those noble sons of Ham--
The gallant colored soldiers
Who fought for Uncle Sam!
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