Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: How good are we?
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Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 8/19/2013 3:05 PM
I always got the vibe DJ & Reggie were close and somewhat isolated from the team socially, not necessarily in a negative or dramatic way, just the way the relationships fell.
Antonio Pierce
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Posted: 8/19/2013 4:39 PM
I would like to see Smith step it up this year like Reggie did in his last year.  

  Regarding the season, I hope this team comes together in time to roll through the MAC tournament and land in the Big Dance.  Beating Akron in this year sure would be nice.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 8/19/2013 6:11 PM
I think this team has the potential to be good this year.  Stating the obvious, it will depend on the answers to a lot of question marks.  But I think that talent-wise, this is a very deep, perhaps loaded, midmajor program.   
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 8/19/2013 8:55 PM
I think expectations need to be toned down.  We lost a lot.  Sure, we have a lot of guys with po-tential.

But the possible outcomes certainly span a greater range than has been true for a few years.  If only because we lost a lot when DJ point guard left.

It's gonna take time, if it happens this year at all.
OU_Country
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Posted: 8/20/2013 8:45 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I think expectations need to be toned down.  We lost a lot.  Sure, we have a lot of guys with po-tential.

But the possible outcomes certainly span a greater range than has been true for a few years.  If only because we lost a lot when DJ point guard left.

It's gonna take time, if it happens this year at all.


For all your optimism most times, I'm sorta surprised by this one Monroe.  I agree with toning down fan expectations, but I think this group will be damn tough come January.
A-townBound
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Posted: 8/20/2013 9:34 AM
Antonio Pierce wrote:expand_more
I would like to see Smith step it up this year like Reggie did in his last year.

Regarding the season, I hope this team comes together in time to roll through the MAC tournament and land in the Big Dance. Beating Akron in this year sure would be nice.


Smith was huge in the final game against Miami last year - as was Stevie playing point while DJ played guard.

Everyone, including me, loves DJ. However, there were times last year when we got down that DJ seemed to try and take it all on himself. When that worked we loved him, but when he started relying less on his team and started chucking up 3s with tons of time left on the shot clock - not so much. I think there were teammates who also did not care for this...

Yes, there are question marks for next year but the talent is there! For whatever reason I get the feeling this could be an exciting season!
Last Edited: 8/20/2013 9:46:20 AM by A-townBound
colobobcat66
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Posted: 8/20/2013 12:01 PM
Just wondering where the scoring is going to come from. With the loss of DJ, we are less likely to get as many easy shots. Almost has to be a rebuilding year. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think we'll be as good.
Last Edited: 8/20/2013 5:57:23 PM by colobobcat66
RSBobcat
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Posted: 8/20/2013 11:03 PM
A-townBound wrote:expand_more
I would like to see Smith step it up this year like Reggie did in his last year.

Regarding the season, I hope this team comes together in time to roll through the MAC tournament and land in the Big Dance. Beating Akron in this year sure would be nice.



Yes, there are question marks for next year but the talent is there! For whatever reason I get the feeling this could be an exciting season!


I agree. 20+ wins. There will as always be some tough to take losses - but I see a couple surprising wins in this team. There is some good returning experience and lot of new expected good talent. Who has a clue how to prepare for us. We don't even know what the best chemistry mixes/rotations/schemes will be yet.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 8/20/2013 11:07 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Just wondering where the scoring is going to come from. With the loss of DJ, we are less likely to get as many easy shots. Almost has to be a rebuilding year. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think we'll be as good.


Less missed fade-aways that that result in no basket or trip to the FT line as well. maybe less "easy" baskets - but I bet we see just as much or more aggressive takin' to the hoop inside. I bet we will certainly have a higher 3 pt shooting avg also. I would not be suprised at all to see OUr avg PPG go UP this year.  
bornacatfan
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Posted: 8/21/2013 8:03 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
I would not be suprised at all to see OUr avg PPG go UP this year.  


i'll take that bet. No way a Christian coached team runs rim to rim with the emphasis on quick hitters like a JG coached team. I look for a more pedestrian, grind it out approach. I will be really happy with a defense that creates run outs and a team that gets the ball out of the net and goes but I am not sure that is what we are going to see.
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Posted: 8/22/2013 4:28 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I would not be suprised at all to see OUr avg PPG go UP this year.


i'll take that bet. No way a Christian coached team runs rim to rim with the emphasis on quick hitters like a JG coached team. I look for a more pedestrian, grind it out approach. I will be really happy with a defense that creates run outs and a team that gets the ball out of the net and goes but I am not sure that is what we are going to see.
You are spot on, JC has always been a grind it out style of play.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 8/22/2013 10:47 AM

His Kent State teams tended to be good at driving to the basket, drawing fouls, getting to the FT line.  It will be interesting to see the style this season...whether it's more uptempo than JC's Kent teams, or whether Borna and Billy are correct.

I have heard JC say that "My teams can run a lot IF they play defense and rebound...that's how you create opportunities to run."

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Posted: 8/22/2013 1:03 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more

 I have heard JC say that "My teams can run a lot IF they play defense and rebound...that's how you create opportunities to run."



I'd say this pretty much applies to a lot of teams that play defense, presumably resulting in turnovers, and grabbing rebounds, presumably defensive rebounds.
Bobcat1998
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Posted: 8/22/2013 2:20 PM
I just love the toughness factor that I think this team will bring. Please don't persecute me for saying this but our graduating seniors last year played soft in big games. I'm not saying they played soft ball the time. I think Reggie was tough. I think Walt was the epitome of a gamer, but when push came to shove in the MAC championship game, against Memphis, against Belmont...they didn't always lead with toughness.

I haven't seen Ndour play aside from video but I already know he's going to translate to the big stage and I can't wait for the first time D-Tread or Javon McCrea come into the lane and instead of Ivo sashaying aside for them or Reggie slow to help, they see the length and athleticism of not just Ndour but Jon Smith and Mompremier. Throw in T.J. as a 6-6 small and a point guard who scored 8 ppg in THE BIG 12 and I just think teams will not know what hit them. It might not happen at first, but come MAC Tourney time and the second time round the East, our length will eat teams up.

And don't get me started salivating for next year! 6-9 Rio, 6-9 Tariq, 6-9 Mompremier, 6-9 Ndour...and all with Antonio Campbell at 6-8, 240 bashing people's skulls in and 6-8 Treg Setty OUTSIDE!
Last Edited: 8/22/2013 2:22:31 PM by Bobcat1998
OU_Country
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Posted: 8/22/2013 3:42 PM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
I just love the toughness factor that I think this team will bring. Please don't persecute me for saying this but our graduating seniors last year played soft in big games. I'm not saying they played soft ball the time. I think Reggie was tough. I think Walt was the epitome of a gamer, but when push came to shove in the MAC championship game, against Memphis, against Belmont...they didn't always lead with toughness.

I haven't seen Ndour play aside from video but I already know he's going to translate to the big stage and I can't wait for the first time D-Tread or Javon McCrea come into the lane and instead of Ivo sashaying aside for them or Reggie slow to help, they see the length and athleticism of not just Ndour but Jon Smith and Mompremier. Throw in T.J. as a 6-6 small and a point guard who scored 8 ppg in THE BIG 12 and I just think teams will not know what hit them. It might not happen at first, but come MAC Tourney time and the second time round the East, our length will eat teams up.

And don't get me started salivating for next year! 6-9 Rio, 6-9 Tariq, 6-9 Mompremier, 6-9 Ndour...and all with Antonio Campbell at 6-8, 240 bashing people's skulls in and 6-8 Treg Setty OUTSIDE!


Love the enthusiasm, but I noticed one thing:  'Rio is 6'3" rather than 6'9".  I'm anxious to see how this group develops.  There is a ton of potential as many of us have stated.
JSF
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Posted: 8/22/2013 6:12 PM
My gut tells me we'll be somewhere between JC-era Kent State and John Groce when it comes to pace.
Antonio Pierce
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Posted: 8/22/2013 7:12 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I just love the toughness factor that I think this team will bring. Please don't persecute me for saying this but our graduating seniors last year played soft in big games. I'm not saying they played soft ball the time. I think Reggie was tough. I think Walt was the epitome of a gamer, but when push came to shove in the MAC championship game, against Memphis, against Belmont...they didn't always lead with toughness.

I haven't seen Ndour play aside from video but I already know he's going to translate to the big stage and I can't wait for the first time D-Tread or Javon McCrea come into the lane and instead of Ivo sashaying aside for them or Reggie slow to help, they see the length and athleticism of not just Ndour but Jon Smith and Mompremier. Throw in T.J. as a 6-6 small and a point guard who scored 8 ppg in THE BIG 12 and I just think teams will not know what hit them. It might not happen at first, but come MAC Tourney time and the second time round the East, our length will eat teams up.

And don't get me started salivating for next year! 6-9 Rio, 6-9 Tariq, 6-9 Mompremier, 6-9 Ndour...and all with Antonio Campbell at 6-8, 240 bashing people's skulls in and 6-8 Treg Setty OUTSIDE!


Love the enthusiasm, but I noticed one thing:  'Rio is 6'3" rather than 6'9".  I'm anxious to see how this group develops.  There is a ton of potential as many of us have stated.

BOBCAT1998 I am drinking the same green kool-aid.  Let's get it on!  OUr recruiting will shine through this year and next.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 8/22/2013 10:01 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I would not be suprised at all to see OUr avg PPG go UP this year.  


i'll take that bet. No way a Christian coached team runs rim to rim with the emphasis on quick hitters like a JG coached team. I look for a more pedestrian, grind it out approach. I will be really happy with a defense that creates run outs and a team that gets the ball out of the net and goes but I am not sure that is what we are going to see.


LY 72.5 PPG avg. I did not offer a bet - said I would not be surprised (corrected sp). I'm feelin' like we will beat 72.5 - so how 'bout we bet a hot dog? I think we're gonna see more "hot doggin'" TY.........

 

I'll even buy the hot dog at an away game (VERY likely it will be better than the Convo dogs!)

bornacatfan
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Posted: 8/24/2013 11:10 AM
Sounds like a winner RS ...I am in.


Interesting looking back on the last few years. I hope you are right because a couple of points inthe NCAA is huge. I remember younger days watching Dayton Dunbar putting up a hundred points regularly and Jack Prater's Tipp City teams runnig a full court press and hitting 90's on a regualr basis long before the 3 pt line. They did that with defense and run outs..


Looking back at the past few years. 72.5 (53rd) is up from 12' where we were at 70.2 (118th) but down from 74.4 (44th) a,d 74.7 (53rd) in 10'.  JC's Can't team that won the MAC and lost to PITT in the first round was at 68 and change and 167th in the NCAA. By comparison TOS final year was 67.7 and 197th in the NCAA.

SOunds like I will see you on the road. Gotta go do some Hot Dog research on this slow Dog Days Saturday.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 8/24/2013 12:07 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a winner RS ...I am in.


Interesting looking back on the last few years. I hope you are right because a couple of points inthe NCAA is huge. I remember younger days watching Dayton Dunbar putting up a hundred points regularly and Jack Prater's Tipp City teams runnig a full court press and hitting 90's on a regualr basis long before the 3 pt line. They did that with defense and run outs..


Looking back at the past few years. 72.5 (53rd) is up from 12' where we were at 70.2 (118th) but down from 74.4 (44th) a,d 74.7 (53rd) in 10'.  JC's Can't team that won the MAC and lost to PITT in the first round was at 68 and change and 167th in the NCAA. By comparison TOS final year was 67.7 and 197th in the NCAA.

SOunds like I will see you on the road. Gotta go do some Hot Dog research on this slow Dog Days Saturday.


I think they have Tony Packo's dogs in Savage Arena - would be hard to beat those..............
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Posted: 8/25/2013 9:40 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a winner RS ...I am in.


Interesting looking back on the last few years. I hope you are right because a couple of points inthe NCAA is huge. I remember younger days watching Dayton Dunbar putting up a hundred points regularly and Jack Prater's Tipp City teams runnig a full court press and hitting 90's on a regualr basis long before the 3 pt line. They did that with defense and run outs..


Looking back at the past few years. 72.5 (53rd) is up from 12' where we were at 70.2 (118th) but down from 74.4 (44th) a,d 74.7 (53rd) in 10'.  JC's Can't team that won the MAC and lost to PITT in the first round was at 68 and change and 167th in the NCAA. By comparison TOS final year was 67.7 and 197th in the NCAA.

SOunds like I will see you on the road. Gotta go do some Hot Dog research on this slow Dog Days Saturday.


I had the pleasure of seeing those Dayton Dunbar teams in the late 80's.  The 87-88 season they averaged over 100.  My memory might be faded but I still believe they had the fastest tip drill line I ever saw.  Coach Hayley an Ohio grad and tremendous Bobcat player was a great coach.  It is a shame his son's actions kind of tarnished his name as well.  Those Dunbar teams had 3 division one players on their roster from 86-88 something that did not happen often during that time period.

Dunbar is a school that does not earn many accolades but does have a very rich basketball tradition.  Dunbar teammates opposed one another in the 2012 NBA Finals.  The sad thing is the Dayton Media did not make a big deal of the impressive accomplishment.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/25/2013 10:45 PM
It's Haley, had his greatest success at Dayton Roth where he won 3 State Titles and one at Dunbar. The shame was not his son but his last days of coaching were marked with many many problems when he returned home to Portsmouth. He was a great Bobcat.
Last Edited: 8/25/2013 11:03:56 PM by BillyTheCat
Hawaiian Bobcat
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Posted: 8/25/2013 11:15 PM
Thanks for catching my typo.  Junior's conviction really tarnished the name in the Dayton area.  I was just a boy seeing those great Dunbar teams.  I was unaware of his coaching success at Roth.  A few years before my time.  

Edit:  A quick google search turned up this article about some of the Dunbar teams.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/high-school/is-this-the-greatest-dunbar-team-ever/nMzXb/

 It talks about the talent on the teams and not the statistics past W's and L's.  The 87 team had 5 college scholarships players on it not 3 that I mentioned earlier.  The article isn't the best I have ever read but can give you an idea.  I have not lived in the Dayton area since '04 so I can really comment however the 87 team was one of the best high school teams I ever saw.  I don't think they could beat Lebron's STV-STM teams but they could compete.
Last Edited: 8/26/2013 12:16:12 AM by Hawaiian Bobcat
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/26/2013 12:22 PM
hawaiian bobcat wrote:expand_more
Thanks for catching my typo.  Junior's conviction really tarnished the name in the Dayton area.  I was just a boy seeing those great Dunbar teams.  I was unaware of his coaching success at Roth.  A few years before my time.  

Edit:  A quick google search turned up this article about some of the Dunbar teams.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/high-school/is-this-the-greatest-dunbar-team-ever/nMzXb/

 It talks about the talent on the teams and not the statistics past W's and L's.  The 87 team had 5 college scholarships players on it not 3 that I mentioned earlier.  The article isn't the best I have ever read but can give you an idea.  I have not lived in the Dayton area since '04 so I can really comment however the 87 team was one of the best high school teams I ever saw.  I don't think they could beat Lebron's STV-STM teams but they could compete.


That 1987 Dunbar team was beaten by Haley's alma mater, Portsmouth High School in what was an outstanding game.  Portsmouth was AA at the time while Dunbar was AAA.

From the Portsmouth Daily Times:

Despite these notable wins by schools in the Gem City, Portsmouth has more often than not has come out on top competing against these schools. One of the most infamous wins by PHS came in 1987, when the Dayton Dunbar Wolverines came into town as one of Ohio's most highly touted teams. With two missed free throws by Dunbar's Kirk Taylor with just a second to play, the Trojans hung on for a 62-61 win over PHS grad Mike Haley's team, which would go on to win the Class AAA state title that year.
Last Edited: 8/26/2013 12:57:32 PM by BillyTheCat
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 8/26/2013 1:58 PM
hawaiian bobcat wrote:expand_more
Those Dunbar teams had 3 division one players on their roster from 86-88 something that did not happen often during that time period.

Dunbar is a school that does not earn many accolades but does have a very rich basketball tradition.  Dunbar teammates opposed one another in the 2012 NBA Finals.  The sad thing is the Dayton Media did not make a big deal of the impressive accomplishment.


I think there were four D-I basketball players on the 2006 Dunbar team: Daequan Cook and Norris Cole, who you mentioned, and also Aaron Pogue, who ended up at Cleveland State after going to a JUCO, and Josh Benson, who went to Dayton.

In addition, Mark Anderson went to a JUCO and was supposed to transfer to Miami, but that didn't work out. I don't think it was because he didn't have D-I talent. Darran Powell played football at Cincinnati, although he was not on scholarship.
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