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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 2 Thread: Cleveland St.
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mid70sbobcat
11/12/2023 4:52 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Just back from Cleveland.



Knock Wiznitzer all you want, he unquestionably had the most exciting play of the game. That was a fantastic block and he winds up with two more rejections. Gabe got double hammered going up for a breakaway layup. I think he has shown significant improvement year over year looking more confident and his teammates haven't given up on him.
No offense...but what have you been watching for the last 35 games to say The Whiz has shown "significant improvement" year over year? Huh??? Even Stevie Wonder can see that's not the case. The Whiz is a flat-out liability on the court and he causes so much damage to the team situationally. Also, don't forget he should have also gotten a T for sticking the ball at the chest of a Cleveland State player. He got lucky it wasn't called.

35 games of tape and two full summers of this staff working with The Whiz is enough of a sample size to know this isn't working and he's not a division-one basketball player. And it's not even The Whiz's fault. I blame the coaching staff who somehow believed The Whiz could play at this level. I'll never understand his HS recruiting star ranking and I'll never understand Chris Mack bringing him to Louisville.
Rant on. You seem to have an obsession with Wiznitzer. However, we did not LOSE to CSU due to him. Take a close look at the starting 5. Was he even on the court late when guys played 5 feet off CSU who drained uncontested 3's? Was he 1-5 on 3's and 6-10 on FT's? Did he lose his composure or was it Boals that got a totally unnecessary T?

In 15 minutes per game so far he's average 5.5 rebounds/game 2nd best on the team. James averaging 6.0 per games is playing 34 minutes per game. And Wiznitzer leads us in blocks per game in those measly 15 minutes. And 1 turnover in 2 games, greatly improved over last year. I guess you felt he was to the second coming of Lew Alcindor this year. And if we're weak in the middle look to the coaching staff and their inability to bring anybody in.
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mid70sbobcat
11/12/2023 5:10 PM
OUcat wrote:expand_more
Between Wiz and Cornish (so far) it makes you wonder what these recruiting sites are looking at when they give these guys 3-4-5 stars. Reserving a bit of judgement on Cornish as it's clear he needs a redshirt to fill out and mature.
Clearly Wiz has not lived up to expectations, but he played at Hargrave Military Academy and was heavily recruited. Before choosing to sign with the Cardinals, Wiznitzer also had offers from Ohio State, LSU, Kansas State, Cincinnati, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Iowa, Pittsburgh, St. Johns, TCU, and West Virginia among others.

I see some improvement year over year in the first 2 games. And maybe I am guilty of having some compassion for Gabe based on some things he's been through.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/loui... /
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BillyTheCat
11/12/2023 7:54 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
That’s bullshit. If your program is better than theirs, we should always beat them.

You realize that is not how sports actually work. If it did, we'd never play any games, just give out W's and L's when the schedule comes out.
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Casper71
11/12/2023 8:29 PM
That is like saying some bottom dweller SEC team should beat Alabama half the time. That isn’t the way it works. Alabama has a superior program and they’re going to win 90+ percent of the time against those SEC bottom dwellers. If they don’t win that is a big upset. Because everybody knows Alabama has the superior program.
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OhioCatFan
11/12/2023 8:45 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
That’s bullshit. If your program is better than theirs, we should always beat them.

You realize that is not how sports actually work. If it did, we'd never play any games, just give out W's and L's when the schedule comes out.
I think you've summarized in one pithy statement the major problem with sports commentators in this country (and maybe worldwide) -- the obsession with the concept that certain teams are destined to win and that their commentary is unassailable, until of course it isn't. They never seem to learn from their mistakes. There is a certain level of arrogance that drives me crazy.
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FearLeon
11/13/2023 7:48 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Just back from Cleveland.



Knock Wiznitzer all you want, he unquestionably had the most exciting play of the game. That was a fantastic block and he winds up with two more rejections. Gabe got double hammered going up for a breakaway layup. I think he has shown significant improvement year over year looking more confident and his teammates haven't given up on him.
No offense...but what have you been watching for the last 35 games to say The Whiz has shown "significant improvement" year over year? Huh??? Even Stevie Wonder can see that's not the case. The Whiz is a flat-out liability on the court and he causes so much damage to the team situationally. Also, don't forget he should have also gotten a T for sticking the ball at the chest of a Cleveland State player. He got lucky it wasn't called.

35 games of tape and two full summers of this staff working with The Whiz is enough of a sample size to know this isn't working and he's not a division-one basketball player. And it's not even The Whiz's fault. I blame the coaching staff who somehow believed The Whiz could play at this level. I'll never understand his HS recruiting star ranking and I'll never understand Chris Mack bringing him to Louisville.
Rant on. You seem to have an obsession with Wiznitzer. However, we did not LOSE to CSU due to him. Take a close look at the starting 5. Was he even on the court late when guys played 5 feet off CSU who drained uncontested 3's? Was he 1-5 on 3's and 6-10 on FT's? Did he lose his composure or was it Boals that got a totally unnecessary T?

In 15 minutes per game so far he's average 5.5 rebounds/game 2nd best on the team. James averaging 6.0 per games is playing 34 minutes per game. And Wiznitzer leads us in blocks per game in those measly 15 minutes. And 1 turnover in 2 games, greatly improved over last year. I guess you felt he was to the second coming of Lew Alcindor this year. And if we're weak in the middle look to the coaching staff and their inability to bring anybody in.
Please show me the posts where I said The Whiz was the second coming of Lew Alcindor??? I would just be happy with a poor man's Paul Mokeski or Granville Waiters. Are you really comparing Whiz rebound numbers to Elmore? One is 6'11 and the other is 6'3...but probably more like 6'2.

And I've said in numerous posts this year how inexcusable it is that Boals and staff have put Ohio in this position this season by not bringing in a big man highly more skilled than currently what is the only option we have on the roster in The Whiz. Boals inability to bring in a portal big for the 2023-2024 season is easily the biggest failure of his Ohio coaching career up to this point. It was also painful watching Jaylen Carey for JMU do his thing in the paint the other night against Kent. We can cry all we want about no portal big, but to me, that's the one I was really hoping for.
Last Edited: 11/13/2023 7:51:34 AM by FearLeon
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SBH
11/13/2023 8:00 AM
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
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FJC31
11/13/2023 8:27 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Which players were these? Naturally curious. Foster landed at Illinois State and Brown at Western Michigan. Although it doesn’t help this season, perhaps Boals was willing to allocate more towards landing Evans as a potential 4 year player than a transfer for 2 years.
Last Edited: 11/13/2023 8:29:04 AM by FJC31
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FearLeon
11/13/2023 8:45 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Maybe the athletic department should put a little more emphasis into men's basketball NIL than football? I'd rather spend cash for a 6'8-6'9 hoops stud than spending money on a QB who is going to lead his team to the potato bowl.
Last Edited: 11/13/2023 8:48:41 AM by FearLeon
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SBH
11/13/2023 9:06 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Which players were these? Naturally curious. Foster landed at Illinois State and Brown at Western Michigan. Although it doesn’t help this season, perhaps Boals was willing to allocate more towards landing Evans as a potential 4 year player than a transfer for 2 years.
West Virginia transfer James Okonkwo was scrimmaging with our team when he got the call from UNC.
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FJC31
11/13/2023 9:16 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Which players were these? Naturally curious. Foster landed at Illinois State and Brown at Western Michigan. Although it doesn’t help this season, perhaps Boals was willing to allocate more towards landing Evans as a potential 4 year player than a transfer for 2 years.
West Virginia transfer James Okonkwo was scrimmaging with our team when he got the call from UNC.
Didn’t realize we ever got that far with Okonkwo. Thanks for the insight. At the end of the day, it’s going to have less to do with Boals and his staff and everything thing to do with how much money the program has to spend.
Last Edited: 11/13/2023 9:16:35 AM by FJC31
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spongeBOB CATpants
11/13/2023 9:42 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Between Wiz and Cornish (so far) it makes you wonder what these recruiting sites are looking at when they give these guys 3-4-5 stars. Reserving a bit of judgement on Cornish as it's clear he needs a redshirt to fill out and mature.
Clearly Wiz has not lived up to expectations, but he played at Hargrave Military Academy and was heavily recruited. Before choosing to sign with the Cardinals, Wiznitzer also had offers from Ohio State, LSU, Kansas State, Cincinnati, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Iowa, Pittsburgh, St. Johns, TCU, and West Virginia among others.

I see some improvement year over year in the first 2 games. And maybe I am guilty of having some compassion for Gabe based on some things he's been through.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/loui... /
Could you imagine Wiz in scarlet and gray?
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OU_Country
11/13/2023 5:07 PM
. wrote:expand_more
Becoming a fan of Mitchell quickly.
So far, I like most of what Mitchell brings to Ohio. But the ball kinda "sticks" with him. Ball movement kinda stops. Gave me a ball hog vibe in 2H. The talent and quickness is undeniable though. The first comparison I thought of tonight was Teyvion Kirk.
I like the thought of bringing him off the bench and letting him go crazy with a couple bench players while Hunter gets a blow. It’s how I like guys like Jamal Crawford/Caris Levert/ late-stage Russell Weatbrook. Allows us to use his strengths without bogging down the starting unit.
I'd tend to agree with you. He's the perfect 6th man based on the small sample size I've seen thus far.
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Kevin Finnegan
11/13/2023 5:43 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Maybe the athletic department should put a little more emphasis into men's basketball NIL than football? I'd rather spend cash for a 6'8-6'9 hoops stud than spending money on a QB who is going to lead his team to the potato bowl.
I do so hope you're writing those big checks to the athletic department to make this happen. Otherwise, I don't think you have much control on the expenditures of the department. You seem to think you're entitled to getting a big man, as though someone has wronged you.

And...NIL money doesn't directly come from the athletic department. The university can't cut checks to players. This would be from outside funding. If those outside groups want to help pay for a QB, that's their money to help allocate. So, put up or shut up, really.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
11/13/2023 10:07 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Which players were these? Naturally curious. Foster landed at Illinois State and Brown at Western Michigan. Although it doesn’t help this season, perhaps Boals was willing to allocate more towards landing Evans as a potential 4 year player than a transfer for 2 years.
West Virginia transfer James Okonkwo was scrimmaging with our team when he got the call from UNC.
If he didn't play for us, Boals didn't land him. We pay Boals to compete in the current NCAA basketball landscape, not one from 5 years ago.
Last Edited: 11/13/2023 10:10:36 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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BillyTheCat
11/14/2023 1:45 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Maybe the athletic department should put a little more emphasis into men's basketball NIL than football? I'd rather spend cash for a 6'8-6'9 hoops stud than spending money on a QB who is going to lead his team to the potato bowl.
You realize the department does not spend or raise this money? The Collective is independent of the offices in the Convo.
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FearLeon
11/14/2023 3:15 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Maybe the athletic department should put a little more emphasis into men's basketball NIL than football? I'd rather spend cash for a 6'8-6'9 hoops stud than spending money on a QB who is going to lead his team to the potato bowl.
You realize the department does not spend or raise this money? The Collective is independent of the offices in the Convo.
If you don’t think the athletic departments of schools and NILs are not in collaboration you’re dreaming. Yes it’s not official but you know darn well there’s communication. And yes while the athletic department isn’t officially involved they have impact. And also the level of marketing support for hoops is dramatically less than football. Uniforms, promotion etc. That all matters
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BillyTheCat
11/15/2023 11:45 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Boals DID bring in a big man - actually two of them - who were subsequently lured away with $50K and $90K NIL deals, respectively. One went to North Carolina. That's Boals' fault? You're being irrational.
Maybe the athletic department should put a little more emphasis into men's basketball NIL than football? I'd rather spend cash for a 6'8-6'9 hoops stud than spending money on a QB who is going to lead his team to the potato bowl.
You realize the department does not spend or raise this money? The Collective is independent of the offices in the Convo.
If you don’t think the athletic departments of schools and NILs are not in collaboration you’re dreaming. Yes it’s not official but you know darn well there’s communication. And yes while the athletic department isn’t officially involved they have impact. And also the level of marketing support for hoops is dramatically less than football. Uniforms, promotion etc. That all matters
collaboration is one thing, but finances are another, coaches will have an indirect say in the collectives, but they aint putting money into it themselves. As regards to the original comment about putting more money into basketball, the Bobcat Collective. If people really care, here is the link! Money meet mouth challenge: https://1804sportcollective.com /
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Kevin Finnegan
11/15/2023 12:34 PM
Can't help but laugh that the picture on the 1804 Sport Collective, which is OHIO's fan-driven NIL program, has Mark Sears handling the ball. Seems appropriate, though a Jason Preston pic might energize the fan base a little more.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/15/2023 1:33 PM
Kevin Finnegan wrote:expand_more
Can't help but laugh that the picture on the 1804 Sport Collective, which is OHIO's fan-driven NIL program, has Mark Sears handling the ball. Seems appropriate, though a Jason Preston pic might energize the fan base a little more.
How about G Wiz setting a screen? I hear iphones can isolate and stabilize moving objects.
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GoCats105
11/15/2023 2:03 PM
Kevin Finnegan wrote:expand_more
Can't help but laugh that the picture on the 1804 Sport Collective, which is OHIO's fan-driven NIL program, has Mark Sears handling the ball. Seems appropriate, though a Jason Preston pic might energize the fan base a little more.
Mark Sears handling the ball and empty seats in the front sections. Just a terrible marketing picture all around.
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OU_Country
11/15/2023 2:23 PM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Just back from Cleveland.



Knock Wiznitzer all you want, he unquestionably had the most exciting play of the game. That was a fantastic block and he winds up with two more rejections. Gabe got double hammered going up for a breakaway layup. I think he has shown significant improvement year over year looking more confident and his teammates haven't given up on him.
No offense...but what have you been watching for the last 35 games to say The Whiz has shown "significant improvement" year over year? Huh??? Even Stevie Wonder can see that's not the case. The Whiz is a flat-out liability on the court and he causes so much damage to the team situationally. Also, don't forget he should have also gotten a T for sticking the ball at the chest of a Cleveland State player. He got lucky it wasn't called.

35 games of tape and two full summers of this staff working with The Whiz is enough of a sample size to know this isn't working and he's not a division-one basketball player. And it's not even The Whiz's fault. I blame the coaching staff who somehow believed The Whiz could play at this level. I'll never understand his HS recruiting star ranking and I'll never understand Chris Mack bringing him to Louisville.
Rant on. You seem to have an obsession with Wiznitzer. However, we did not LOSE to CSU due to him. Take a close look at the starting 5. Was he even on the court late when guys played 5 feet off CSU who drained uncontested 3's? Was he 1-5 on 3's and 6-10 on FT's? Did he lose his composure or was it Boals that got a totally unnecessary T?

In 15 minutes per game so far he's average 5.5 rebounds/game 2nd best on the team. James averaging 6.0 per games is playing 34 minutes per game. And Wiznitzer leads us in blocks per game in those measly 15 minutes. And 1 turnover in 2 games, greatly improved over last year. I guess you felt he was to the second coming of Lew Alcindor this year. And if we're weak in the middle look to the coaching staff and their inability to bring anybody in.
I think Gabe is notably improved. Is he good enough to be a starting 5-man in the MAC? Probably not, but all Ohio probably needs from his is average D and rebounding for his position without making crucial mistakes over his 12-15 minutes on the floor. Hopefully he can do that.

Gabe's performance aside, it's not new news that Fear Leon's primary enjoyment here on BA seems to be to find the worst performers/coaches and complain about them, put them down, or call them whiffs / swing and a miss recruits.
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lovebobcat
11/15/2023 3:58 PM
OUcat wrote:expand_more
Get a wide-body off the football team at the break. A good 10-minute player would be a great help.
I LOVE this idea. (I'm guessing it has already occurred to Boals.) Teams don't seem to do this much anymore.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/15/2023 4:19 PM
lovebobcat wrote:expand_more
Get a wide-body off the football team at the break. A good 10-minute player would be a great help.
I LOVE this idea. (I'm guessing it has already occurred to Boals.) Teams don't seem to do this much anymore.
I thought for sure Jack Kenneally, the 6'7" TE who transferred here from Youngstown and doesn't appear to be on the roster, would be that guy.

He was 1st team all state (2nd team in football), 22.1 PPG, 13.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 3 steals, and 3.2 blocked shots per game.

Also shot 39.7 percent from 3-point range.
Last Edited: 11/15/2023 4:21:01 PM by M.D.W.S.T
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FearLeon
11/15/2023 5:56 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Just back from Cleveland.



Knock Wiznitzer all you want, he unquestionably had the most exciting play of the game. That was a fantastic block and he winds up with two more rejections. Gabe got double hammered going up for a breakaway layup. I think he has shown significant improvement year over year looking more confident and his teammates haven't given up on him.
No offense...but what have you been watching for the last 35 games to say The Whiz has shown "significant improvement" year over year? Huh??? Even Stevie Wonder can see that's not the case. The Whiz is a flat-out liability on the court and he causes so much damage to the team situationally. Also, don't forget he should have also gotten a T for sticking the ball at the chest of a Cleveland State player. He got lucky it wasn't called.

35 games of tape and two full summers of this staff working with The Whiz is enough of a sample size to know this isn't working and he's not a division-one basketball player. And it's not even The Whiz's fault. I blame the coaching staff who somehow believed The Whiz could play at this level. I'll never understand his HS recruiting star ranking and I'll never understand Chris Mack bringing him to Louisville.
Rant on. You seem to have an obsession with Wiznitzer. However, we did not LOSE to CSU due to him. Take a close look at the starting 5. Was he even on the court late when guys played 5 feet off CSU who drained uncontested 3's? Was he 1-5 on 3's and 6-10 on FT's? Did he lose his composure or was it Boals that got a totally unnecessary T?

In 15 minutes per game so far he's average 5.5 rebounds/game 2nd best on the team. James averaging 6.0 per games is playing 34 minutes per game. And Wiznitzer leads us in blocks per game in those measly 15 minutes. And 1 turnover in 2 games, greatly improved over last year. I guess you felt he was to the second coming of Lew Alcindor this year. And if we're weak in the middle look to the coaching staff and their inability to bring anybody in.
I think Gabe is notably improved. Is he good enough to be a starting 5-man in the MAC? Probably not, but all Ohio probably needs from his is average D and rebounding for his position without making crucial mistakes over his 12-15 minutes on the floor. Hopefully he can do that.

Gabe's performance aside, it's not new news that Fear Leon's primary enjoyment here on BA seems to be to find the worst performers/coaches and complain about them, put them down, or call them whiffs / swing and a miss recruits.
Trust me...I take no joy in finding the negative. I just call it like I see it....good or bad. I've seen a few posts on here that also see the "notable improvement" from The Whiz. Sorry...I really don't see it and we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's check back after a full 10 games and take a deeper dive. I'm I'm wrong...I'm wrong and will admit it as I've done before on other topics here. Ask yourself this...does The Whiz really move better or give this team more than say a Nolan Foster did? And trust me...this isn't me asking for Foster to be on this team. I'm just saying whatever improvement you guys see in these two games, I don't think it's anymore than what Foster gave this team.

And I'll say this once again. I don't blame The Whiz. I blame the staff for not somehow being able to bring in a big and minimize The Whiz minutes to 3-5 per game instead of 12-18. Sorry...it's painful to watch.
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