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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: defining conferences
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bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/17/2014 10:47 PM
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I saw this quote and I was....welll.....hmmmm....I think amused. 

Quote:expand_more
Whether the AAC is a major conference, especially when they lose Louisville, is debatable at best.

Conference realignment has brought a sharp, ironclad line to football in terms of the major/non major divide, but left basketball more clouded than ever.

The Big Ten, ACC, Big XII, and Pac 12 are the four best leagues, and then there's kind of a gradient as you go from the SEC to the Big East to the AAC to the Mountain West to the A-10 to the MVC etc.

At this point, I think you define mid-major in football terms. The teams that aren't collecting the ungodly football TV money checks are mid-majors.
Last Edited: 2/17/2014 10:59:44 PM by bornacatfan
The Optimist
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Posted: 2/17/2014 11:01 PM
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However people want to define the AAC... Cincinnati, UConn and Memphis leading the way with Temple and Houston backing them up is an impressive conference.

Not just good basketball teams, but good basketball programs that are going to draw fans in the seats and eyeballs on TV. Louisville may be leaving but that doesn't prevent the Memphis @ UConn OT matchup between two ranked teams I watched on ESPN this past Sunday.
Mike Bundt WHIZ
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Posted: 2/17/2014 11:08 PM
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There is no doubt in my mind that the AAC is still a Power conference even with losing Louisville to the ACC.

They have a bunch of quality programs in Connecticut, Memphis, Cincinnati and Temple. Add in SMU which looks like they're on the way up and you have a conference that should have 2+ ranked teams a year and a bunch of tournament teams.
Last Edited: 2/17/2014 11:09:26 PM by Mike Bundt WHIZ
JSF
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Posted: 2/17/2014 11:37 PM
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Whether or not a conference is a "power" or not is a great example of a sportz argument.
Casper71
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Posted: 2/17/2014 11:52 PM
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The big problem for the AAC will be if/when they lose UC and UCONN.  Both want to be with the Big5 and have the desire, pedigree and resources to make the jump.  Memphis will probably be left out because of their poor football.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 2/18/2014 12:09 AM
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check out the RPIs for the 10 teams in the AAC-

Top 5 teams
13 Cinci
25 UConn
34 Memphis
36 Lville
47 SMU

Avg RPI of top 5 teams- 31. Is the AAC a power conference? YES.


Bottom 5 teams
162 Temple
171 Houston
173 USF
194 Rutgers
195 UCF

Avg RPI of bottom 5 teams- 179. Is the AAC a power conference? NO.
Columbus_Bobcat
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Posted: 2/18/2014 2:18 AM
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Wonder when this thread will turn in to a we should be let in the AAC.
Pataskala
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:54 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
check out the RPIs for the 10 teams in the AAC-

Top 5 teams
13 Cinci
25 UConn
34 Memphis
36 Lville
47 SMU

Avg RPI of top 5 teams- 31. Is the AAC a power conference? YES.


Bottom 5 teams
162 Temple
171 Houston
173 USF
194 Rutgers
195 UCF

Avg RPI of bottom 5 teams- 179. Is the AAC a power conference? NO.


This is something the ESPN guys pointed out as L'ville was pounding Rutgers by 40+ points in the second half the other night.  The bottom-dwellers of the "power" conferences regularly beat or have close games vs the top teams in their conferences.  But with the AAC, the bottom five are lucky to be in the same arena as the top five.  It's likely to cause the AAC to get lower seeds across the board come NCAA tourney time.  Replacing L'ville with Tulsa (13-12; 118 RPI) will drag the conference down even more.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:05 AM
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Who is replacing Rutgers in the AAC next year?
colobobcat66
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:21 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Who is replacing Rutgers in the AAC next year?

East Carolina. Tulane and Tulsa were earlier going to be full members
Last Edited: 2/18/2014 8:26:10 AM by colobobcat66
OUVan
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:37 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Replacing L'ville with Tulsa (13-12; 118 RPI) will drag the conference down even more.


On the flip side, Temple is having an uncharacteristically bad season and I would expect them to bounce back.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:51 AM
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Every time this discussion pops up, I think of my theoretical "Ohio" conference and how awesome it would be, then I just get sad it will never happen.

Ohio
Miami
Cincinnati
Xavier
Dayton
Wright State
 
Toledo
Bowling Green
Akron
Kent State
Cleveland State
Youngstown State

Assuming we can't get UC, we also don't invite Youngstown St and make it a round 10.  If and when the non-BCS schools are dropped to a different division in football would be the perfect time to form this conference for all sports including football.  The collective conference/state pride, rivalries, and following would rival OSU...like a network of small businesses working together to compete with Walmart.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:02 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Every time this discussion pops up, I think of my theoretical "Ohio" conference and how awesome it would be, then I just get sad it will never happen.

Ohio
Miami
Cincinnati
Xavier

Dayton
Wright State

Toledo
Bowling Green
Akron
Kent State
Cleveland State
Youngstown State

Assuming we can't get UC, we also don't invite Youngstown St and make it a round 10. If and when the non-BCS schools are dropped to a different division in football would be the perfect time to form this conference for all sports including football. The collective conference/state pride, rivalries, and following would rival OSU...like a network of small businesses working together to compete with Walmart.

You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:17 AM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Replacing L'ville with Tulsa (13-12; 118 RPI) will drag the conference down even more.


On the flip side, Temple is having an uncharacteristically bad season and I would expect them to bounce back.


I think East Carolina and Tulsa are fine additions, but not in any way is Tulane.  Also consider that Temple will rebound, and Houston seems to be on the rise.  It's not what the Big East was in previous years, but it's not bad.


colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Every time this discussion pops up, I think of my theoretical "Ohio" conference and how awesome it would be, then I just get sad it will never happen.

Ohio
Miami
Cincinnati
Xavier

Dayton
Wright State

Toledo
Bowling Green
Akron
Kent State
Cleveland State
Youngstown State

Assuming we can't get UC, we also don't invite Youngstown St and make it a round 10. If and when the non-BCS schools are dropped to a different division in football would be the perfect time to form this conference for all sports including football. The collective conference/state pride, rivalries, and following would rival OSU...like a network of small businesses working together to compete with Walmart.

You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.


Frankly, at this point, I think the MAC is not only in a potentially stronger position (if we could get to a point where getting an at-large bid is real) than it has ever been, simply because of all the other conference movement.  It's up to the powers that be in Cleveland to capitalize on this.  Of course, I have my doubts that this will happen.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:18 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.

That is the exact reason why I love it.  Every single game is within 4 hours of each other, and every match up has friendly rivalries scattered all over the state of various alumni and fans of these schools.  I am always more tuned into the Ohio teams than I am NIU or Buffalo or whoever because I know people personally who I will be able to discuss/trash talk about the games with.  Media coverage and TV contracts would be easy to get adequately, Fox Sports Ohio/Cincy would jump all over that contract...and each major Ohio news outlet would have writers dedicated to the conference.  And I feel like the camaraderie and collective pride of the conference would be unmatched.

Maybe we could even talk OSU into playing the defending champion the following season (laughter).
The Optimist
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:22 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Replacing L'ville with Tulsa (13-12; 118 RPI) will drag the conference down even more.


On the flip side, Temple is having an uncharacteristically bad season and I would expect them to bounce back.


I think East Carolina and Tulsa are fine additions, but not in any way is Tulane.  Also consider that Temple will rebound, and Houston seems to be on the rise.  It's not what the Big East was in previous years, but it's not bad.


Every time this discussion pops up, I think of my theoretical "Ohio" conference and how awesome it would be, then I just get sad it will never happen.

Ohio
Miami
Cincinnati
Xavier

Dayton
Wright State

Toledo
Bowling Green
Akron
Kent State
Cleveland State
Youngstown State

Assuming we can't get UC, we also don't invite Youngstown St and make it a round 10. If and when the non-BCS schools are dropped to a different division in football would be the perfect time to form this conference for all sports including football. The collective conference/state pride, rivalries, and following would rival OSU...like a network of small businesses working together to compete with Walmart.

You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.


Frankly, at this point, I think the MAC is not only in a potentially stronger position (if we could get to a point where getting an at-large bid is real) than it has ever been, simply because of all the other conference movement.  It's up to the powers that be in Cleveland to capitalize on this.  Of course, I have my doubts that this will happen.

I think Tulane basketball will benefit from playing in a conference like this. As teams like Memphis and UConn come in to play in NOLA, program interest will grow and Tulane will start picking up solid recruits.




The MAC's RPI is as good as it has been in awhile. If the MAC can continue to have only 2-3 teams below 200 and up the number of teams in the Top 100 from 4 to 6 an at-large bid is inevitable.

The AAC would clearly be a major upgrade but beyond that, staying in the MAC can work especially in hoops. Only further igniting my confidence is the incoming MAC recruiting class. Besides a good class from OHIO, the entire MAC did very well. With the tournament at 68, there is no reason the MAC should not start to see 2 bids with some consistency.
 
colobobcat66
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Posted: 2/18/2014 9:52 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.


That is the exact reason why I love it. Every single game is within 4 hours of each other, and every match up has friendly rivalries scattered all over the state of various alumni and fans of these schools. I am always more tuned into the Ohio teams than I am NIU or Buffalo or whoever because I know people personally who I will be able to discuss/trash talk about the games with. Media coverage and TV contracts would be easy to get adequately, Fox Sports Ohio/Cincy would jump all over that contract...and each major Ohio news outlet would have writers dedicated to the conference. And I feel like the camaraderie and collective pride of the conference would be unmatched.

Maybe we could even talk OSU into playing the defending champion the following season (laughter).

No national interest,why would anybody outside of Ohio, which is losing population or not growing all that much, care about an all Ohio conference? Travel wise it would be great for sure.
Variety is the spice if life, embrace it.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/18/2014 10:08 AM
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Is there ever much national interest in a mid-major conference outside of maybe the conference tourney or top teams?  And really, I don't know that I agree.  Sure, the high interest would be centralized in one state, and I think that is a good thing.  But I don't really buy that the fringe or outsider interest would be any different.  If the MWC programs all happened to be in the state of Missouri, I would follow it equally as much as I do now.  Centralized fans of the schools increases buzz which increases local interest.  Local interest builds programs to success, and success builds national interest.

But, as I said, it is all hypothetical anyway.

And I don't know where you got Ohio is losing population.  Outside of Cleveland, that is not true.  The total population of Ohio has not declined at all, and people don't realize it is the 7th most populous state despite being the 34th largest state.
Last Edited: 2/18/2014 10:12:04 AM by Andrew Ruck
colobobcat66
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Posted: 2/18/2014 10:19 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Is there ever much national interest in a mid-major conference outside of maybe the conference tourney or top teams? And really, I don't know that I agree. Sure, the high interest would be centralized in one state, and I think that is a good thing. But I don't really buy that the fringe or outsider interest would be any different. If the MWC programs all happened to be in the state of Missouri, I would follow it equally as much as I do now. Centralized fans of the schools increases buzz which increases local interest. Local interest builds programs to success, and success builds national interest.

But, as I said, it is all hypothetical anyway.

And I don't know where you got Ohio is losing population. Outside of Cleveland, that is not true. The total population of Ohio has not declined at all, and people don't realize it is the 7th most populous state despite being the 34th largest state.

Going by Ohio losing congressional representation I thought. May be wrong on that. Just my perception of the rust belt states, I guess.
I think there would be a bigger fan base if the conference were spread out more. There's only so many people in Ohio.
Edit: sorry but Ohio was 45th in the county as far as growth rate during the last available 39 month period at .30 percent
Last Edited: 2/18/2014 10:23:53 AM by colobobcat66
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Posted: 2/18/2014 11:30 AM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Replacing L'ville with Tulsa (13-12; 118 RPI) will drag the conference down even more.


On the flip side, Temple is having an uncharacteristically bad season and I would expect them to bounce back.


I think East Carolina and Tulsa are fine additions, but not in any way is Tulane.  Also consider that Temple will rebound, and Houston seems to be on the rise.  It's not what the Big East was in previous years, but it's not bad.


Every time this discussion pops up, I think of my theoretical "Ohio" conference and how awesome it would be, then I just get sad it will never happen.

Ohio
Miami
Cincinnati
Xavier

Dayton
Wright State

Toledo
Bowling Green
Akron
Kent State
Cleveland State
Youngstown State

Assuming we can't get UC, we also don't invite Youngstown St and make it a round 10. If and when the non-BCS schools are dropped to a different division in football would be the perfect time to form this conference for all sports including football. The collective conference/state pride, rivalries, and following would rival OSU...like a network of small businesses working together to compete with Walmart.

You make some good points, but the problem I have with such a conference is that it is too local and would have such a small geographic footprint. I kind of like having teams from adjacent states which make it a more regional conference.


Frankly, at this point, I think the MAC is not only in a potentially stronger position (if we could get to a point where getting an at-large bid is real) than it has ever been, simply because of all the other conference movement.  It's up to the powers that be in Cleveland to capitalize on this.  Of course, I have my doubts that this will happen.

I think Tulane basketball will benefit from playing in a conference like this. As teams like Memphis and UConn come in to play in NOLA, program interest will grow and Tulane will start picking up solid recruits.




The MAC's RPI is as good as it has been in awhile. If the MAC can continue to have only 2-3 teams below 200 and up the number of teams in the Top 100 from 4 to 6 an at-large bid is inevitable.

The AAC would clearly be a major upgrade but beyond that, staying in the MAC can work especially in hoops. Only further igniting my confidence is the incoming MAC recruiting class. Besides a good class from OHIO, the entire MAC did very well. With the tournament at 68, there is no reason the MAC should not start to see 2 bids with some consistency.
 

I'd like to agree with you, but I need to see some important schools in the MAC invest in & emphasize basketball more before I'll actually believe it.  I'd like to see it, I think the potential is there, but I don't think anyone is actually leading the way to getting better in the MAC offices.

As for Tulane athletics...I'll believe it when I see it.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 1:05 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
sorry but Ohio was 45th in the county as far as growth rate during the last available 39 month period at .30 percent

I never claimed it was booming, just disputed your claim population was declining...it is not.  Either way you are splitting hairs, as I mentioned we are the 7th most populous state in a not very big area and that isn't changing anytime soon.  Arguing whether the state population will be 13 mil or 14 mil in 20 years doesn't change that.

It boils down to me thinking the close in-state rivalries would add more committed fans and attract the attention of more students, alumni & locals of these schools and that is most important...while you think a more spread out geographic area would attract more casual fans and national interest which is more important.  So be it.
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Posted: 2/18/2014 1:36 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
check out the RPIs for the 10 teams in the AAC-

Top 5 teams
13 Cinci
25 UConn
34 Memphis
36 Lville
47 SMU

Avg RPI of top 5 teams- 31. Is the AAC a power conference? YES.


Bottom 5 teams
162 Temple
171 Houston
173 USF
194 Rutgers
195 UCF

Avg RPI of bottom 5 teams- 179. Is the AAC a power conference? NO.
Future members-
119 Tulsa
210 Tulane
220 ECU
Casper71
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Posted: 2/18/2014 2:34 PM
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U of L is gone from the AAC...you take away UC and UCONN and how do you then rate this Conference from a FB and BB perspective?  A few good b-ball teams in Memphis, SMU and Temple.  Football, yikes ????

Maybe not so good if a move were possible?
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Posted: 2/18/2014 6:13 PM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
sorry but Ohio was 45th in the county as far as growth rate during the last available 39 month period at .30 percent


I never claimed it was booming, just disputed your claim population was declining...it is not. Either way you are splitting hairs, as I mentioned we are the 7th most populous state in a not very big area and that isn't changing anytime soon. Arguing whether the state population will be 13 mil or 14 mil in 20 years doesn't change that.

It boils down to me thinking the close in-state rivalries would add more committed fans and attract the attention of more students, alumni & locals of these schools and that is most important...while you think a more spread out geographic area would attract more casual fans and national interest which is more important. So be it.

You're so hell bent on making your point that you misquote me. I said " losing population or not growing that much". I said you had done good points, and you agree that there are two ways of looking at it. The league wouldn't even have 10 football members which seems rather small to me. Anyway, I'm all for serious fans across the nation following the MAC, not just casual ones. Do you really think an all Ohio league would get any play in the national tv scene? it's just a pipe dream anyway unless there is no group of 5 playing D-1 football.

Peace
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Posted: 2/18/2014 8:32 PM
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I really think we could have our own build your own conference/save college sports forum. I would enjoy reading everyone's solutions back to back. A great basketball conference doesn't help the football problem.
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