Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: MAC Tourney Bracket
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OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/10/2014 11:58 PM
GoCatsGo wrote:expand_more
So with day 1 in the books, I thought I'd take a look at the attendance figures for tonight's first rounds games.  

1. Ball State at Ohio - 4,153
2. Bowling Green at Northern Illinois - 941
3. Central Michigan at Easter Michigan - 863
4. Kent at Miami - 780

Well so much for having the first round games on campus sites to boost attendance.  Those are not pretty numbers for the last 3 games. 


That puts pathetic in apathetic.
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 3/11/2014 12:44 AM
Unless Athens gets a major boost in population, I don't think we'll ever reach the status of other mid-major programs.

I mean a lot of you guys are from Bumblee Ohio towns. 

Someone prove me wrong? 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/11/2014 8:45 AM
I figured the attendance figures would be low across the league last night.  I thought our crowd, while smallish by OUr standards, was very involved and loud. 
Tyler
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Posted: 3/11/2014 8:48 AM
GoCatsGo wrote:expand_more
So with day 1 in the books, I thought I'd take a look at the attendance figures for tonight's first rounds games.  

1. Ball State at Ohio - 4,153
2. Bowling Green at Northern Illinois - 941
3. Central Michigan at Easter Michigan - 863
4. Kent at Miami - 780

Well so much for having the first round games on campus sites to boost attendance.  Those are not pretty numbers for the last 3 games. 

I'd ask if any of those schools were on spring break, but student attendance at all three of them is so low that it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:19 AM
Are the birds coming home to roost for attendance at the MAC tourney?  14 or 15 years of an incredibly successful run at the Q in Cleveland...the MAC depending on having Kent, Akron and Ohio dominating the semis almost annually...now this year, it appears that may not happen...Only one of those three will make the semis.  WMU and Toledo locked into the semis.  WMU will bring a decent crowd, but it won't match the "Big Three."  Toledo will bring a good crowd, but not what the "Big Three" would bring. 

MAC probably praying for Beefs to win.  They would bring a decent crowd to semis. 

Combine this with the snow storm hitting MAC country on Wednesday...potentially, this year's tournament could be one of the lowest attended since it's been in Cleveland.  

In any event, it's still a good time...so Ohio fans, come on up to Public Square and enjoy the festivities!
mf279801
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Posted: 3/11/2014 9:49 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
...
MAC probably praying for Beefs to win.  They would bring a decent crowd to semis. 

Combine this with the snow storm hitting MAC country on Wednesday...potentially, this year's tournament could be one of the lowest attended since it's been in Cleveland.  

In any event, it's still a good time...so Ohio fans, come on up to Public Square and enjoy the festivities!


I don't think Buffalo would bring much of a crowd at all to the semis or finals: spring break starts on friday and (more importantly) Buffalo celebrates St. Patrick's day on sunday, which is a day that this city takes every bit as seriously as Athens takes halloween.
Casper71
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:23 AM
Those attendance figures are not those that a mid major conference should be proud of.  Too many MAC schools are just playing the part but not looking the part in both major sports. 
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:39 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
So with day 1 in the books, I thought I'd take a look at the attendance figures for tonight's first rounds games.  

1. Ball State at Ohio - 4,153
2. Bowling Green at Northern Illinois - 941
3. Central Michigan at Easter Michigan - 863
4. Kent at Miami - 780

Well so much for having the first round games on campus sites to boost attendance.  Those are not pretty numbers for the last 3 games. 


That puts pathetic in apathetic.

Of course, those three were the three who by far were the last three in attendance in the league. All four teams were below average their attendance but then again it was a Monday night.

 
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 3/11/2014 11:29 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Are the birds coming home to roost for attendance at the MAC tourney?  14 or 15 years of an incredibly successful run at the Q in Cleveland...the MAC depending on having Kent, Akron and Ohio dominating the semis almost annually...now this year, it appears that may not happen...Only one of those three will make the semis.  WMU and Toledo locked into the semis.  WMU will bring a decent crowd, but it won't match the "Big Three."  Toledo will bring a good crowd, but not what the "Big Three" would bring. 

MAC probably praying for Beefs to win.  They would bring a decent crowd to semis. 

Combine this with the snow storm hitting MAC country on Wednesday...potentially, this year's tournament could be one of the lowest attended since it's been in Cleveland.  

In any event, it's still a good time...so Ohio fans, come on up to Public Square and enjoy the festivities!

I agree that the whole recipe is for a poorly attended tournament, but I don't pin the blame on the venue. No other city is as easily accessible (read: driving in and out with no overnight) to more MAC schools than Cleveland. Toledo, BG, Akron and Kent fans can all drive here and back with no need for a hotel, and the city has a very significant population of grads from every Ohio MAC school (NE Ohio is still the state's largest metro area). You simply cannot find a better combination for easy access to casual fans... and let's face it, most tourney attendees are casual. Yes, many on this board get hotel rooms, as do parents and close friends and die-hards. There simply aren't that many die-hards. 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/11/2014 11:41 AM
I don't pin the blame on the venue either.  It's the best possible venue and I don't think it should be changed.
OUcats82
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Posted: 3/11/2014 12:05 PM
Since I am never disappointed with the breadth and depth of this board's collective knowledge.....

How does it work from a scheduling standpoint for all of the NBA/NHL etc. teams who play in arenas that also host conference tournaments and NCAA tournament games?  Obviously they can schedule a string of road games for many teams but at some point won't there will be an imbalance if too many venues are hosting?
 
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 3/11/2014 12:40 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I don't pin the blame on the venue either.  It's the best possible venue and I don't think it should be changed.

Gotcha. I'm being a bit of a pedantic jerk here, but your choice of idiom suggested you thought the venue was a problem waiting to be exposed.
anorris
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Posted: 3/11/2014 2:04 PM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
Since I am never disappointed with the breadth and depth of this board's collective knowledge.....

How does it work from a scheduling standpoint for all of the NBA/NHL etc. teams who play in arenas that also host conference tournaments and NCAA tournament games?  Obviously they can schedule a string of road games for many teams but at some point won't there will be an imbalance if too many venues are hosting?
 
Conference tournaments are contracted and scheduled/booked years out, typically, so they'd be on the books long before the pro leagues set their schedules, thus I presume the leagues just work around the dates available in venues. Conference tournaments don't really use that much time - maybe 5-6 days or so, which is really only a couple games.

There are 32 D-I conferences, of which only 8 are held at pro facilities (5 NBA, 2 NHL, and 1 with tenants from both leagues), and 1 of these is held a week before all the others (MVC).

In actuality, the first and second rounds of the NCAA tournament, disrupting 3 venues of each league this year, is a bigger problem for the NHL than conference tournaments -- but still negligible.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/11/2014 10:18 PM
There is no point in having the 11 and 12 seeds playing.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/11/2014 11:18 PM
Unless like they win games.

2012 both 11 and `12 won.

2o13 11 won and 10 (no 12 seed due to UT scandal) lost by one.

Those are on campus of higher seeds? So teams winning on the road....nice.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/12/2014 9:35 AM
Yes, against not exactly the super high seeds in the conference...and were promptly dismissed in the next round and never had a realistic chance of winning it all.  And none of their fans were watching or cared at all that they won that one game.

I just think if we are going to do the unbalanced 18 game schedule, we can't have that huge of a drop off between the 4 and 5 seeds.  Bottom line, Akron ultimately got the bye because they got Ball State and EMU twice while we got Toledo and WMU.  I can swallow that causing us to play 1 extra game, but not 2.
stub
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Posted: 3/12/2014 10:56 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Unless like they win games.

2012 both 11 and `12 won.

2o13 11 won and 10 (no 12 seed due to UT scandal) lost by one.

Those are on campus of higher seeds? So teams winning on the road....nice.

Yes. Can't we just all agree that on a given night, anything is possible. I recall the 2002 season when we opened the MAC tourney at home against Central, a team with 9 wins, and they whipped us.

 
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/12/2014 1:39 PM
stub wrote:expand_more
I recall the 2002 season when we opened the MAC tourney at home against Central, a team with 9 wins, and they whipped us.

And then they were promptly eliminated and their fans didn't care about any of it.

 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/12/2014 1:39 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Yes, against not exactly the super high seeds in the conference...and were promptly dismissed in the next round and never had a realistic chance of winning it all.  And none of their fans were watching or cared at all that they won that one game.

I just think if we are going to do the unbalanced 18 game schedule, we can't have that huge of a drop off between the 4 and 5 seeds.  Bottom line, Akron ultimately got the bye because they got Ball State and EMU twice while we got Toledo and WMU.  I can swallow that causing us to play 1 extra game, but not 2.

I agree with that Andrew. We are the cause of the  drop off. When we ran through the tourney in 2010 Ford and Dambrot were so Incensed that they held a special Shortman convention and pressed the MAC officios to "make sure that does not happen again". I agree with the basic premise of making the entire season count and on the other hand I see quite vividly your point of not penalizing 5 and 6 and condemning them to an impossible task...especially in the light where there is not much separation and the unbalanced schedule puts a team with a particularly difficult schedule as opposed to the others in the top 4 seeds. 

I really detest this when a team has some injuries and turmoil but gets their act together over the course of the season and then is actually the best team in the MAC over the last few weeks going into the tourney. This format works against that scenario inasmuch as the "best" team to represent and advance the conference in tha case would face an insurmountable task....

I am not sure how you appease the remaining shortman in keeping the tourney the way he wants and yet give more parity by dropping the 11/12 game.  What does that do to the bracketing with 10 teams in your scenario? Best possible answer is to dominate the league as * IMHO * we should be....don't make it an issue, Support , show up and become a big time fanbase that recruits want to play in front of.... 

 
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/12/2014 2:09 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I am not sure how you appease the remaining shortman in keeping the tourney the way he wants and yet give more parity by dropping the 11/12 game.  What does that do to the bracketing with 10 teams in your scenario? 

I am just suggesting we and EMU should've had a bye to tonight rather than to spend time and energy having to beat the 11 and 12 seeds.  That would leave 10 @ 7 and 9 @ 8 on Monday night as it already was.  We would've ended up the same as we are right now without Ohio & EMU having played.  I understand that isn't how it went in the first 2 years of this set up, but those were some top heavy years in the MAC.  This year, we have a clear cut top 6 in my opinion so it is the first year that a true contender is being put thru quite a test out of the 5 & 6 seeds.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/12/2014 3:12 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more

I am just suggesting we and EMU should've had a bye to tonight rather than to spend time and energy having to beat the 11 and 12 seeds.  That would leave 10 @ 7 and 9 @ 8 on Monday night as it already was.  We would've ended up the same as we are right now without Ohio & EMU having played.  I understand that isn't how it went in the first 2 years of this set up, but those were some top heavy years in the MAC.  This year, we have a clear cut top 6 in my opinion so it is the first year that a true contender is being put thru quite a test out of the 5 & 6 seeds.

thats a good solution. Maybe you can forward it and get it to grow some legs.  Out of curiosity, what is your thoughts on this 10 team bracket then? Is that what the final product would look like?  Definitely designed to favor those who achieve in the regular season. 


 
   
    1  Valparaiso    
   
         (bye)    
       
 
         
      1  Valparaiso 65  
   
    5  Butler 46  
  4  Milwaukee 68  
 
  9  UIC 55  
    4  Milwaukee 49
   
      5  Butler 71  
  5  Butler 70
 
  8  Wright State 52  
      1  Valparaiso 50
     
    3  Detroit 70
         
 
         
    2  Cleveland State  
   
         (bye)    
       
 
         
      2  Cleveland State 58
   
    3  Detroit 63  
  3  Detroit 80  
 
  10  Loyola 71  
    3  Detroit 93
   
      6  Youngstown State 76  
  6  Youngstown State 77
 
  7  Green Bay 60
 


 
Last Edited: 3/12/2014 3:14:37 PM by bornacatfan
stub
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Posted: 3/12/2014 4:31 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I recall the 2002 season when we opened the MAC tourney at home against Central, a team with 9 wins, and they whipped us.

And then they were promptly eliminated and their fans didn't care about any of it.

 

Our fans did.

 
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/12/2014 5:23 PM
stub wrote:expand_more
I recall the 2002 season when we opened the MAC tourney at home against Central, a team with 9 wins, and they whipped us.

And then they were promptly eliminated and their fans didn't care about any of it.


Our fans did.

That's my point.  Just let the team that succeeded significantly better in the regular season and the fan base that still cares just have that win without even playing the game.

Borna - That bracket to me rewards the 2 seed way too much more than the 3 seed.  What I like about the "Ruck Bracket" lets call it is the gradual rewarding/punishing of the regular season:

1-2 - Triple Bye
3-4 - Double Bye
5-6 - SIngle Bye
7-8 - Home Game
9-10 - Away Game
11-12 Season Over
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Posted: 3/12/2014 11:08 PM
The "Ruck Bracket" is a great idea and makes perfect sense.  Which unfortunately means the MAC will never adopt it.  In all seriousness, you should forward it through the AD to the Conference.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/13/2014 2:39 PM
I prefer the Barbasol MAC Tournament format.

And Barbasol is really getting its money's worth.



 
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