grade Ohio as a Top 80-talent team in 2011-12 and that's roughly where they are in 2012-13. There is a difference between going to the Sweet 16 and having Top 16 talent.
As for lopsided non-con losses against good teams under Groce:
- 2008-09 @ Louisville 91-56 loss
- 2008-09 @ Xavier 78-56 loss
- 2009-10 Bracketbuster @ EKU 73-51 loss
- 2009-10 @ Pitt 74-49 loss
- 2010-11 vs. Kansas loss 98-41
Ted, I would not disagree with this. But what you are really saying is that O.U. punched above their weight class last year. Do you think they have puched above their weight class this year, so far? Not with the beatings they took against Memphis and Belmont, the pretty substantial loss against Oklahoma, and the really bad loss against Winthrop. And last year they did finish the year in the top 25.
JG took some bad losses, but let's look at THIS team. Last year they were very competitve against Louisville, which at least led to some hope for a competitive game against Michigan in the NCAA tournament. I don't see that same type of competitive game against a similar opponent this year. In his first year, JG lost Williams (top scorer), Walther (third leading scorer), and Whittington (fourth leading scorer). And consider the beating O.U. took at the hands of Kansas the previous year when TOS had those players. And then consider that the following year, JG pretty had a young, new team. Would I expect a team of freshmen to get dusted at Pitt their first year? Yes. Would I expect that same team to be competitive against Louisville their junior year? Yes. Would I expect them to be competitive against Memphis and Belmont their senior year? Yes.
Let's see what Groce had returning from a 20 win team. MAC POTY Jerome Tillman, Tommy Freeman, Kenneth van Kempen, DeVaughn Washington, Michael Allen, Justin Orr, Steven Coleman, Frankie Dobbs. How did that team do? They went from a 20 win team to a 15-17 team.
Of course, you only tell half of the story here. No Williams (leading scorer), Walther (third leading scorer), and Whittington (fourth leading scorer.) JG lost three of the top five scorers in his first year, had no real opportunity to replace those players with his recruits, and yet you point out the record got worse? Um, okay. JC, on the other hand, had the luxory of coming into a situation where he did not need to recruit anyone - the cupboard was full when he got to Athens. Now, if he would have lost, say, Cooper, Keely, and Kellogg, and had no opportunity to replace those players with recruits, then this thread may not exist. And your argument may be valid.
So, as I wrote above, would I expect a team that lost three of their top five scorers to get dusted at Louisville and Xavier? Yes.
Now lets really compare apples-to-apples. Last year at this time we were 10-4 in the MAC on the way to 11-5 and a solid #3 seed. This year Christian's idiocy has us at 12-2 and on pace for possibly our best record ever in the conference. Certainly that's a fireable offense.
And yet, unless JC wins out this year, including a post season tournament, his overall record will not be as good as last year's record. The MAC record is great and all, but when the administration fired Hunter and brought in TOS, it's stated intent was to get to the next level. The 'next level' was not success in MAC play. It was making it to the NCAA, presumably more often than not, and making a good showing there. And why are you resorting to hyperbole? I've not read very many, if any, comments about firing JC. Only that this same team finished in the top 25 last year, returned everybody, and yet there have been games this year in which they were not even competitive, where they were competitive last year. That is simply a fact.
This year we have been much more consistent in MAC play
Overall, true. But they did beat Akron twice last year, the first win being a pretty lopsided wiin at home. We all know the 'Cats will, in all likelihood, need to beat Akron to make the NCAA tournament this year. There is certainly still hope. But it is also fair to point out that their performance in big games last year yielded more confidence than their performance in big games this year, of which I would include the home game against Akron.
The funny thing is that most of the Chicken Littles keep pointing to our success from last year in a part of the season that hasn't happened yet this year.
Not entirely true. Last year, I was confident going into the MAC tournament because Ohio dusted Akron at home, and knew that, while the game would be tougher in Cleveland, JG knew how to beat Akron with the team he had. I was confident going into the NCAA tournament because Ohio gave Louisville, a very good team, everything it could handle earlier in the year, and that when you play within five points of your opponent, a bounce here or there, or a call here or there can give you a win. On the other hand, this year, JC has not shown he can beat Akron with the same team. Okay, he has demonstrated he has had more success against OTHER MAC teams not named Akron, but, at the end of day, what does it matter if he can't beat Akron, because the 'Cats will need to beat Akron to go the NCAA tournament. Frankly, I'd sacrifice a couple of MAC wins against other teams to get a win against Akron. So far, it has not happened. That does not mean it will not happen. If they make the NCAA tournament, can they win? Sure. But, again, based on how they have played against NCAA caliber teams this year, I am not confident.
And this mantra that a coach needs to get his own players is nonsense. This may be true if a coach is not inheriting a team of very good players, like JG faced when he inherited a team with the prior year's first, third, and fourth leading scorers, but when a coach takes over a team that returns everybody, a good coach can win with that team. I get he returned Van Kempen, who, frankly was never a good scorer, and Tillman, who was, and Freeman, who could score in spurts, but, let's face it, the team JG inherited was not nearly as good as the team TOS had hte previous year. The good coach changes his style to suit that team. Ask Magic Johnson. Or is he not enough of an authority for you?
When Magic Johnson was asked at the press conference when the Dodger signed Greinke, he was asked about the current coach of the Lakers. His reply was that the coach has a good team, the problem was that the coach has not changed his style of play and coaching to accomodate the players he has on his roster. The principle is the same.