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Topic: It's Business....
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perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:37 AM
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fire? not yet. Other things to be/should be doing like lining up replacement candidates. Plus, you don't want the next coach to think that you're quick to fire someone if another school asks about them, don't want to look like the Browns.

But agree that this is BS and needs to be resolved ASAP.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:37 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


He did it to Bill Frieder. Steve Fisher, he of the vacated Fab Five years, was hired and led Michigan to the national title.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:39 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


Don't you mean Bill Frieder? Fisher was his assistant and took Michigan to the National Title with Glenn Rice.

EDIT: Good Call, Mike.
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 10:40:27 AM by GoCats105
axeme
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:41 AM
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Wouldn't you assume Schaus  granted permission for JC to talk to BC? That's usually the protocol. As public as this has been, I would think your AD knew about it up front and granted his blessing.

That was one of the issues with Geno-KSU. He flew out at night to Peoria  without the permission of the AD and accepted the job, blindsiding KSU. That wasn't the main issue, of course. He owed the buyout regardless (which he has still not paid despite losing the court case over it).
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 10:42:03 AM by axeme
BobcatSports
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:47 AM
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Friedler had already accepted the ASU job, but wanted to "stay on" to finish out Michigan's year. Bo said he wanted a Michigan man coaching Michigan and showed him the door.

Oh, thanks Monroe for enlightening me on the trials and tribulations of the coaching profession of collegiate athletics. Here I thought it was just OHIO that seems to lose their coaches. Also not a bit surprised that Christian would consider offers. Blown away however that it's an ACC school making the offer.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:57 AM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


Don't you mean Bill Frieder? Fisher was his assistant and took Michigan to the National Title with Glenn Rice.

EDIT: Good Call, Mike.


To complete the circle, after Fisher and Ellerbe, Michigan hired Amaker, who left for Harvard and was apparently BC's #1 target. They eventually turned to JC, who was hired at Ohio after Groce's tourney run including a victory over Michigan.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:00 AM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
I would still argue that he has done severe damage to the brand, institution, and financials.

The length of time it has played out is moot. This could have culminated in several hours and we would still be harmed in the same manner.

I would argue that a decent lawyer could arrange a settlement far less then what JC is contractually owed, once the damages were proven out. Most of you argued against Kent fighting for Geno's buyout, but it was the right move.


Sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Ohio University basketball, in a year that we lost to the smallest DI school in the country in a two-bit tournament, is now getting national headlines because for the second time in 3 years a school in a power conference has looked to our basketball program as a source of talent to right their struggling program. The idea that this has hurt our brand is 100% wrong. In the short term, we may lose a recruit or two, but in the long-term this can only be good for our prospects. If Christian does indeed leave, Schaus will be recruiting for a position which has led to jobs in the Big Ten and ACC for two consecutive coaches. We'll be an interesting job from here on out based on that track record. Our brand is getting national press in March, despite the fact that we failed to make the tournament.

I get that feelings are hurt, and I get that everybody wants us to find our Mark Few or whatever, but we need to be realistic about where this program is and what it is, and understand that it's extremely rare to find a coach at our level who both performs and is unfailingly loyal to OU. It's the nature of the conference and the nature of NCAA revenue generating athletics. We'll always be a springboard unless we dump FBS football and pump that money into the basketball program. Until then, we are what we are, and we just need to recognize that at our level a winning basketball program will always mean coaching staff turnover.
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 11:01:59 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
brucecuth
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:03 AM
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axeme wrote:expand_more
Wouldn't you assume Schaus  granted permission for JC to talk to BC? That's usually the protocol. As public as this has been, I would think your AD knew about it up front and granted his blessing.

That was one of the issues with Geno-KSU. He flew out at night to Peoria  without the permission of the AD and accepted the job, blindsiding KSU. That wasn't the main issue, of course. He owed the buyout regardless (which he has still not paid despite losing the court case over it).


AX is probably correct, JC probably did this with Schaus' knowledge.  My problem now is that Christian really, really seems to want this job.  According to Arkley he's spent days in Boston.  Should he return to Athens, still our coach, I will want him to explain, and do so very carefully, what has happened the last week and why the school, team and fans should still believe in his commitment to Ohio University.

This whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth as far as JC is concerned.   
100%Cat
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:09 AM
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Firing him would seem like a Dan Gilbert post-"Decision" type of reaction.
Paul Graham
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:32 AM
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He should leave, no matter what. He's clearly demonstrated he has no interest in building something here or accomplishing anything meaningful. He took the position as way of keeping his stock from plummeting after a poor showing at TCU.

If we keep him around we are just delaying the inevitable.
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:45 AM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
Wouldn't you assume Schaus  granted permission for JC to talk to BC? That's usually the protocol. As public as this has been, I would think your AD knew about it up front and granted his blessing.

That was one of the issues with Geno-KSU. He flew out at night to Peoria  without the permission of the AD and accepted the job, blindsiding KSU. That wasn't the main issue, of course. He owed the buyout regardless (which he has still not paid despite losing the court case over it).


AX is probably correct, JC probably did this with Schaus' knowledge.  My problem now is that Christian really, really seems to want this job.  According to Arkley he's spent days in Boston.  Should he return to Athens, still our coach, I will want him to explain, and do so very carefully, what has happened the last week and why the school, team and fans should still believe in his commitment to Ohio University.

This whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth as far as JC is concerned.   


Yes, if he comes back to Athens, Schaus and company are faced with an interesting communication challenge.

GoCats105
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:52 AM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


Don't you mean Bill Frieder? Fisher was his assistant and took Michigan to the National Title with Glenn Rice.

EDIT: Good Call, Mike.


To complete the circle, after Fisher and Ellerbe, Michigan hired Amaker, who left for Harvard and was apparently BC's #1 target. They eventually turned to JC, who was hired at Ohio after Groce's tourney run including a victory over Michigan.


I believe the movie Inception would define that as a "paradox."
bshot44
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:00 PM
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I agree that if JC does in fact return, he may have hurt his program in a big way.  I think the comments of Tariq Owens AAU coach were very telling "Even if he has to sit out a year. He's not going there."

Sounds like, even if JC returns, Owens has no faith that he'll remain at OU for his four years.

Players come to schools because of coaches.  Plain and simple.  You can have the best facilities, great tradition, on TV every game....but bottom line, kids play for coaches.  And if OUr coach isn' t 100% committed to staying in Athens, it's going to be very hard to recruit the type of players we need to dominate the MAC and start making consistent noise nationally (in the postseason)

JC might come back...and be successful in the short-term (and maybe longer).....but I just think this is a black-eye that could really stunt our potential growth.  

I thought when JC was hired he was in it for the long haul.  That's why I loved the hire.   I thought he'd come here and we'd rule the MAC...go to the NCAA tourney every year (or every other) and eventually start winning a few games in the tourney (and make a deep run or two)

Now it appears that he is looking for the next job.  I disagree with a lot of people who diss the BC job....BC has a pretty good hoops tradition and were pretty solid under Skinner....but they got greedy and wanted more and they hired Donahue after he was the "hot" coach for making Cornell relevant.  If you watched BC the last couple years, they were awful.  Just flat awful.  They had no chance to compete in the ACC.  Donahue set that program back about 5 years.  No reason why BC, in Boston for crying out loud, in the ACC should not be a 20+ win, NCAA team every year.  I think it can be....not sure JC can be the coach that does that for them.  But it is a good job....better than say Clemson, Va Tech, Wake, Miami FL, Florida State, Notre Dame, UVA.   

Couldn't blame JC for taking it...I would just be largely disappointed...especially after sitting there 2 years ago hearing how he was in Athens to stay.

I understand the plight of a MAC school...and I know the pitfalls.  I'm just optimistic we can find a coach who understands this league is ripe for the picking...and for $400-600k a year he can become a GOD in Athens and lead a program to domination in the league, which I would think at some point would start to resonate on a national level.  I'm not talking Final Fours or anything...but just to be a consistent player...a top 50 program nationally. I don't think that's out of the question.
 
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 12:02:43 PM by bshot44
Steve
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:05 PM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


Don't you mean Bill Frieder? Fisher was his assistant and took Michigan to the National Title with Glenn Rice.

EDIT: Good Call, Mike.


To complete the circle, after Fisher and Ellerbe, Michigan hired Amaker, who left for Harvard and was apparently BC's #1 target. They eventually turned to JC, who was hired at Ohio after Groce's tourney run including a victory over Michigan.

Bo didn't can Freider. Freider took the ASU job a few days before the tournament started but wanted to coach Michigan in the NCAAs. Bo told him to get lost.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:06 PM
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One need not look further then O'Shea, Timothy after his flirtations with Qunnipiac.

That was the last straw. The program was never the same, and the fans (myself included) basically abandoned him.

This thing is too far gone. One side needs to make the tough decision and cut the cord. Someone has to answer for Sonny.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:06 PM
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Steve wrote:expand_more
Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.


Don't you mean Bill Frieder? Fisher was his assistant and took Michigan to the National Title with Glenn Rice.

EDIT: Good Call, Mike.


To complete the circle, after Fisher and Ellerbe, Michigan hired Amaker, who left for Harvard and was apparently BC's #1 target. They eventually turned to JC, who was hired at Ohio after Groce's tourney run including a victory over Michigan.

Bo didn't can Freider. Freider took the ASU job a few days before the tournament started but wanted to coach Michigan in the NCAAs. Bo told him to get lost.


So he fired him. Watch the Fab Five documentary on ESPN. The narrator says Frieder was fired.
axeme
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:10 PM
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When Dakich had his brief fling with WVU, then quickly backed out and went back to BG, it was the beginning of the end of his head coaching career. Things just are never the same when you go back.
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:34 PM
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What we're all going through right now is life in the "mid-majors."  Coaches that have success get courted by bigger schools.  Recruits probably realize that but come to "mid-majors" anyway because they like the overall program or the facilities or because they'll get a chance to play right away instead of getting splinters at a bigger school watching the NBA prospect get PT.  I don't think Christian came to Ohio expecting to stay forever but I also don't think he planned to interview elsewhere so soon either.  I read a Boston Globe article that described the process BC is going through and it mentioned that BC hired a consultant -- former South Carolina Eddie Fogler -- to handle their job search and he contacted Christian, not the other way around.  The situation may have soured the milk for some recruits, but I think most realize that coaching changes are part of college ball, at every level. 
Paul Graham
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:38 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
What we're all going through right now is life in the "mid-majors." Coaches that have success get courted by bigger schools. Recruits probably realize that but come to "mid-majors" anyway because they like the overall program or the facilities or because they'll get a chance to play right away instead of getting splinters at a bigger school watching the NBA prospect get PT. I don't think Christian came to Ohio expecting to stay forever but I also don't think he planned to interview elsewhere so soon either. I read a Boston Globe article that described the process BC is going through and it mentioned that BC hired a consultant -- former South Carolina Eddie Fogler -- to handle their job search and he contacted Christian, not the other way around. The situation may have soured the milk for some recruits, but I think most realize that coaching changes are part of college ball, at every level.
This is not a typical mid major departure. Just two seasons? For a guy hired to provide stability?
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/3/2014 12:53 PM
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axeme wrote:expand_more
When Dakich had his brief fling with WVU, then quickly backed out and went back to BG, it was the beginning of the end of his head coaching career. Things just are never the same when you go back.


This situation is nowhere near what that was. Go listen to some of his archived podcasts about his time there. WVU was about to be investigated (or should have been) by the NCAA because they were paying their players before Dakich got there. Dakich brought it to light (mainly about star Jonathan Hargett) and told the AD about it. The AD basically told him to keep his mouth shut "or else." Dakich told them he runs a clean program and told his brother (an attorney) to tell them the deal was off.

BG gladly took him back, but it was never near the same because of rumors he ran a dirty program. Those rumors were falsely accused by WVU.
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 12:54:36 PM by GoCats105
axeme
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Posted: 4/3/2014 1:32 PM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
When Dakich had his brief fling with WVU, then quickly backed out and went back to BG, it was the beginning of the end of his head coaching career. Things just are never the same when you go back.


This situation is nowhere near what that was. Go listen to some of his archived podcasts about his time there. WVU was about to be investigated (or should have been) by the NCAA because they were paying their players before Dakich got there. Dakich brought it to light (mainly about star Jonathan Hargett) and told the AD about it. The AD basically told him to keep his mouth shut "or else." Dakich told them he runs a clean program and told his brother (an attorney) to tell them the deal was off.

BG gladly took him back, but it was never near the same because of rumors he ran a dirty program. Those rumors were falsely accused by WVU.


Agreed, I  didn't mean to imply the situations were similar, just that once a coach expresses interest in moving on, it's difficult on many levels when he returns. Things are difficult enough that you don't need added degrees of difficulty.
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