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Topic: It's Business....
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Bobcat Love
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:22 AM
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This is probably out of the realm of possibility, but there's a school of thought that says Schaus should fire Christian immediately.

This process has dragged on way too long to the detriment of Ohio Athletics. Schaus has to have some fiduciary responsibility to "stop the bleeding." Cause would seem to be there, with confirmation that Schaus and Owens had contact while he was in Boston during his discussions with another institution.

I like Christian. I like what he's done. However, this is business. You will hear it from him if/when he leaves, so why should it be any different from our side? This process has clearly said that he is with Ohio Athletics until he finds something better, and that Ohio Athletics will be at his disposal while he looks.

Again, nothing personal, but from a Management standpoint, Schaus needs to put him down and continue to move the program forward. If we learned anything from the TOS situation, it's that we should have done the same thing during his flirtations elsewhere - as the program only declined thereafter.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:27 AM
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If all these rumors are true I tend to agree with you on this.  Who knows, maybe they've already spoken?  A lot of unanswered questions that's for sure. 
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:28 AM
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That would be a major hit to the program but I agree we're getting close to that point.


OUBobcat13
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:28 AM
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I agree. If I kept my employer in limbo as he has, I'm sure I wouldn't have a job after 3-4 days of keeping them hanging.
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:33 AM
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Is it worth sacrificing the money that goes with it? If fired, we owe Jim Christian his money. Plus, we lose out on the $500,000 buyout if Boston College hires him. They'd probably love for us to do just that. I think this idea is impulsive and detrimental to the school. Should we gain $500,000 from BC, we can put that right into our facilities, our new coach, etc. If we fire him, we're out that 1/2 million, plus we likely owe Jim an additional $475,000 for the next three years. I'm not sure our athletic program can sustain a hit of nearly $2 million and still go out and hire a great next coach.
cc-cat
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:36 AM
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Given what we do know about Schaus, I am sure he is not in limbo - sitting at his desk ringing his hands (I would guess he is on the phone setting up possible interviews while in Dallas this weekend - should they be necessary).  And per another thread, this is only causing angst with posters on this board.  It is a business, and this happens constantly in this type of business.   The good news is Schaus is about to head into a weekend where he can sit with anyone and everyone he wants to.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:39 AM
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finnOhio wrote:expand_more
Is it worth sacrificing the money that goes with it? If fired, we owe Jim Christian his money. Plus, we lose out on the $500,000 buyout if Boston College hires him. They'd probably love for us to do just that. I think this idea is impulsive and detrimental to the school. Should we gain $500,000 from BC, we can put that right into our facilities, our new coach, etc. If we fire him, we're out that 1/2 million, plus we likely owe Jim an additional $475,000 for the next three years. I'm not sure our athletic program can sustain a hit of nearly $2 million and still go out and hire a great next coach.

Exactly.  You always prefer your employees quit rather than have to fire them...and he is on the brink of quitting.

If he comes back and says just kidding, I am staying...Then we have this discussion.
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:44 AM
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The blending of the courtship of JC & BC with the comments of Owens are of great concern. It is the kind of thing that can result in new boats for multiple lawyers.

Fireable offense? Maybe. It depends largely on how we connect the dots and we are placing much faith in hearsay.

But I also think we are all being a little bit rash with the thought that our program is going to be decimated regardless of the outcome in the span of 4 days.
bobcat28
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:55 AM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
This is probably out of the realm of possibility, but there's a school of thought that says Schaus should fire Christian immediately.

This process has dragged on way too long to the detriment of Ohio Athletics. Schaus has to have some fiduciary responsibility to "stop the bleeding." Cause would seem to be there, with confirmation that Schaus and Owens had contact while he was in Boston during his discussions with another institution.

I like Christian. I like what he's done. However, this is business. You will hear it from him if/when he leaves, so why should it be any different from our side? This process has clearly said that he is with Ohio Athletics until he finds something better, and that Ohio Athletics will be at his disposal while he looks.

Again, nothing personal, but from a Management standpoint, Schaus needs to put him down and continue to move the program forward. If we learned anything from the TOS situation, it's that we should have done the same thing during his flirtations elsewhere - as the program only declined thereafter.


I was thinking this exact same thing.
Jerry86
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:02 AM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
This is probably out of the realm of possibility, but there's a school of thought that says Schaus should fire Christian immediately.

This process has dragged on way too long to the detriment of Ohio Athletics.


Dragged on too long? What is it now? 3 days? 4? What was the time frame with Groce?
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:05 AM
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bobcat28 wrote:expand_more
This is probably out of the realm of possibility, but there's a school of thought that says Schaus should fire Christian immediately.

This process has dragged on way too long to the detriment of Ohio Athletics. Schaus has to have some fiduciary responsibility to "stop the bleeding." Cause would seem to be there, with confirmation that Schaus and Owens had contact while he was in Boston during his discussions with another institution.

I like Christian. I like what he's done. However, this is business. You will hear it from him if/when he leaves, so why should it be any different from our side? This process has clearly said that he is with Ohio Athletics until he finds something better, and that Ohio Athletics will be at his disposal while he looks.

Again, nothing personal, but from a Management standpoint, Schaus needs to put him down and continue to move the program forward. If we learned anything from the TOS situation, it's that we should have done the same thing during his flirtations elsewhere - as the program only declined thereafter.


I was thinking this exact same thing.
you can think it, but rational thought then hits you and you move on
Chicken George
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:07 AM
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Interestingly, as an employer, I was thinking the exact same thoughts yesterday but didn't share realizing I'd get the "this is just how things work in the world of college athletics" response.  I realize that just how it is, yet still, if I had all the confirmed info as I"m sure JS does--I'd love to fire right now in hopes of limiting damage.  Figure the only reason that's not an option are the potential financial consequences.  

Honestly, for some reason even if JC does come back, I think he's a lame duck coach.  For some reason I would've accepted JG back unconditionally, but this for some reason feels different.  Honestly #2, I hope he doesn't come back now and the only thing I'm concerned about are the recruits and to not train wreck the next 1-2 years on the court.  The perfect Win-Win-Win for me in this is JC leaves-we keep all our recruits--bring in someone solid.  My own personal Win/Win solution does not even include having JC stay, it's more of the players now.   I kind of get this same sentiment from the few Ohio fans I know--keep the recruits and go is the perfect, yet unrealistic, outcome.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:08 AM
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I would still argue that he has done severe damage to the brand, institution, and financials.

The length of time it has played out is moot. This could have culminated in several hours and we would still be harmed in the same manner.

I would argue that a decent lawyer could arrange a settlement far less then what JC is contractually owed, once the damages were proven out. Most of you argued against Kent fighting for Geno's buyout, but it was the right move.
BobcatSports
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:12 AM
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I agree with you in principle Love, but this coaching "business" seems to be a completely different animal. Lots of typical businesses have "non-compete" clauses that helps keep the poaching down. There is no such thing in the world of college athletics.

I think it's in the Jim Collins business books that I read, one you have an employee that you know is no longer a good fit, FIRE him before he quits. While that theory works in the business world, not so in the college athletic world.

I'm sure Schaus would like to be the one to pull the rug out from under Christian at this point. However, the financial implications of doing so would probably be devastating to our bottom line.

I 100% concur though that this thing dragging out and on so long in public will take years for our program to recover from.

I still can't believe this thing is unfolding. I was taken by total and complete surprise that Christian would be considered for a HC position at any ACC school at this juncture of his career.
bobcat695
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:14 AM
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I don't think I'd fire him for not disclosing a possible interview with another school in the offseason.  I am also not a fan of firing him and owing money when there is a strong chance he would quit and Ohio would receive money.  That could be a $1M swing either way. 

The only way I think Schaus could terminate him would be if there was illegal communication between Christian and Owens.  I do not know the NCAA rules on this, but if he was in violation, then that would be a fireable offense which would exclude Ohio from owing Christian any money at termination. 

The situation does upset us, but we are not a final destination program for most coaches.  If we want success at our program, we have to realize that means a revolving door of good coaches will occur.  This is how coaching changes occur nearly 100% of the time in college sports.  It stings, but it's true. 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:15 AM
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BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
I agree with you in principle Love, but this coaching "business" seems to be a completely different animal. Lots of typical businesses have "non-compete" clauses that helps keep the poaching down. There is no such thing in the world of college athletics.

I think it's in the Jim Collins business books that I read, one you have an employee that you know is no longer a good fit, FIRE him before he quits. While that theory works in the business world, not so in the college athletic world.

I'm sure Schaus would like to be the one to pull the rug out from under Christian at this point. However, the financial implications of doing so would probably be devastating to our bottom line.

I 100% concur though that this thing dragging out and on so long in public will take years for our program to recover from.

I still can't believe this thing is unfolding. I was taken by total and complete surprise that Christian would be considered for a HC position at any ACC school at this juncture of his career.


Sorry, but this seems a little over the top.  What we're going through happens all the time in sports.  


 
C Money
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:16 AM
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Remember that the buyout drops down $250,000 on May 1. Maybe BC knows JC is the guy but waits until then so they're on the hook for less money.....THEN you're gonna have a fun lawsuit.

Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:19 AM
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You've got a lawsuit anyway because the contract isn't going to be signed until August or later. That's SOP.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:20 AM
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Coach Schembechler did this to Steve Fisher in the middle of the post season years ago.
Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:22 AM
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It might feel good to fantasize about firing him, but there's no clear cause. Even if there was a cause, how do you attract the next coach after you fired one for having the temerity to mull an offer to triple his salary in the ACC? Beyond the financial insanity, it's just not a wise consideration.
The Optimist
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:22 AM
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I agree with Love. This uncertainty is doing damage beyond what just changing regimes costs a program. At this point, if JC doesn't get the BC job we end up with a coach who we know was looking elsewhere.. And then we just took him back? That is soft and bad face for the program.
 

At this point, the only way I see us bringing JC back is in a scenario where we counteroffered BC and "convinced" JC to turn down the BC job. Not saying that is likely, although crazier things have happened.
 

I like JC as a coach and wish we could have him next season without this mess. That said, I have full faith in Schaus to go get us another top notch guy.
 

This is a good job. Actually, it is a great job. Even if you want to call it a "stepping stone" it is possibly the nicest stepping stone in the nation. Good coaches can win here. A great coach could win big.

Last Edited: 4/3/2014 10:24:09 AM by The Optimist
bobcat695
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:28 AM
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C Money wrote:expand_more

Remember that the buyout drops down $250,000 on May 1. Maybe BC knows JC is the guy but waits until then so they're on the hook for less money.....THEN you're gonna have a fun lawsuit.



That is exactly what I thought originally.  For 250K, I'd wait to announce it until May 1st, too.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:35 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
Remember that the buyout drops down $250,000 on May 1. Maybe BC knows JC is the guy but waits until then so they're on the hook for less money.....THEN you're gonna have a fun lawsuit.


That is exactly what I thought originally. For 250K, I'd wait to announce it until May 1st, too.
There is no way they can drag this out for a month.
The Optimist
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:35 AM
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The contract says if he accepts a position "within one year" so the actual date of the signing would be irrelevant unless he goes all season without a contract. The date of termination is what matters. No way we keep him on staff for a month with this going on... Also, no way BC cares about 1/4 of a mil to not hire the guy they want for a month.
 

That buyout is nothing. Small money.
 

I would imagine that us firing him probably negate the buyout... Another reason we likely wouldn't fire him..

Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:36 AM
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IMO, firing him might do more damage to the program than not firing him. I think we all agree Ohio is a stepping stone at this point. Hopefully not forever, but as of now, yes. If we fire him, who in their right mind would succeed him? Have a great year, get a call from an ACC school, get fired.
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