Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Body Language Says It all
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The Bozone
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Posted: 1/8/2015 5:44 PM
I arrived about an hour before the last two home games and found a curious practice dimension. Practicing and getting high fives for uncontested dunks seems to be an important part of the warm up for those able to or aspiring to dunk. I saw no one shooting repeatedly from their spot or spots on the floor, no free throws, and no one, except Campbell and Setty bless their hearts who also dunked flamboyantly, practicing jump hooks, drop steps, or other moves around the basket. I may never figure out what is so impressive about tall guys dunking when no one is guarding them, and if that’s what’s important to these guys, I’m sorry to say, Saul has his work cut out for him.
Last Edited: 1/8/2015 6:38:55 PM by The Bozone
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/8/2015 7:26 PM
Interesting

I m in a heated argument on a HS board regarding the no dunking rule. One guy says with breakaway rims it is antiquated and outdated and should be allowed as it is the only shot kids shoot in the game they are not allowed to practice....

I say horse hockey. Dunking is like the ultimate stupidity. It is like when your toddler finds his penis and can't stop playing with it. Male adolescents dunking are the ultimate exercise in stupidity. They do NOT practice game "shots"...they go up and show out risking injury to themselves and test the equipment needed to play the game by trying to rock the rim.

I watched OJ Mayo, Bill Walker and the D1 greyhounds tear apart a rim in a small Cincy gym prior to a game laughing hysterically as they destroyed it. Ridiculous as they ruined he goal and very well could have injured themselves. What you saw pregame last nite is indicative of the testosterone laced activity that surrounds those idjuts left to their own decision making when they should be advancing their craft with a variety of shots that will be taken instead of wasting time repetitively showing their teamies how they have mastered a shot that they should make 100% of the time
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 1/8/2015 7:42 PM
Catdude wrote:expand_more
We jack up an average of 24 3's a game!!! Wonder if we are trying to set a new NCAA record for most 3's attempted in a season? Not to mention the 68% free throw percentage. If we can't shoot successfully from the foul line, what makes these guys think they can shoot successfully from the 3 point arc and beyond.
We are 118th in the nation in % of fg's as 3pters so not nearly as crazy as you made it sound, but Bean and Tony are the only guys even shooting above 33% on 3s on the whole team. That's not ideal.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 1/8/2015 8:42 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.
That's actually an excellent point. Last year whenever the whistle would blow Nick would call for a quick huddle. Have no clue what was said in the huddles but that isn't happening this year.
To take that point further. When Groce was Here the first of July in 08 I asked a simple question to which he answered something about recruiting winners...I said what do you mean? A simple question came back "how many rings in the locker room?" I said 2....on one guy. He promplty went out and got winners. DJ won at Seton, Kinney at Centennial, Horne at Cincy, Nick at Columbus....all from programs that taught winning and throw in McKinley as a walk on from Scioto. Growing up in a winning culture is important. Leon and Tilly were great players but they never won at lower levels and were not part of a tradition. That is gone now. It is impalpable but guys who have never had it and NOT been hungry to get there again will never understand it. Read the bios of the current guys. I think Saul will find those winners but right now he is dealing with an animal he is having a hard time getting a handle on....Guys like Nick and Deej et al knew how to win and from day one there was a difference in the locker room. Groce's first season was markedly different because he did not have guys who understood winning and the passion, desire and excitement that it brings....as well as the urgency needed.... Saul is in the same boat IMHO.
Wow! As a fellow Eisenhower baby as Tom, I've got to say that this might very well be the most succinct and accurate post on this board in a long time. He and I often agree and disagree online and offline but this post is so true. Recruit winners, surround yourself with winners. They are far better than kids on all star teams who never won a trophy. Wow! This just made my day.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 1/8/2015 10:50 PM
The Bozone wrote:expand_more
I arrived about an hour before the last two home games and found a curious practice dimension. Practicing and getting high fives for uncontested dunks seems to be an important part of the warm up for those able to or aspiring to dunk. I saw no one shooting repeatedly from their spot or spots on the floor, no free throws, and no one, except Campbell and Setty bless their hearts who also dunked flamboyantly, practicing jump hooks, drop steps, or other moves around the basket. I may never figure out what is so impressive about tall guys dunking when no one is guarding them, and if that’s what’s important to these guys, I’m sorry to say, Saul has his work cut out for him.
I also get there over an hour before tip and I must not be watching close enough but they seem focused in their warm ups, taking appropriate shots, etc. There may be some dunks but from where sit it seems that doesn't dominate the warm ups.

borna is right about the dunks, although sometimes it is appropriate in certain game situations. But I remember KVK said, "I've got other things to do." When I first started watching college basketball, it was during the Lew Alcindor era and dunks were outlawed. He himself says it helped him develop, and
Coach Wooden agreed.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 1/9/2015 12:23 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.
That's actually an excellent point. Last year whenever the whistle would blow Nick would call for a quick huddle. Have no clue what was said in the huddles but that isn't happening this year.
To take that point further. When Groce was Here the first of July in 08 I asked a simple question to which he answered something about recruiting winners...I said what do you mean? A simple question came back "how many rings in the locker room?" I said 2....on one guy. He promplty went out and got winners. DJ won at Seton, Kinney at Centennial, Horne at Cincy, Nick at Columbus....all from programs that taught winning and throw in McKinley as a walk on from Scioto. Growing up in a winning culture is important. Leon and Tilly were great players but they never won at lower levels and were not part of a tradition. That is gone now. It is impalpable but guys who have never had it and NOT been hungry to get there again will never understand it. Read the bios of the current guys. I think Saul will find those winners but right now he is dealing with an animal he is having a hard time getting a handle on....Guys like Nick and Deej et al knew how to win and from day one there was a difference in the locker room. Groce's first season was markedly different because he did not have guys who understood winning and the passion, desire and excitement that it brings....as well as the urgency needed.... Saul is in the same boat IMHO.
Wow! As a fellow Eisenhower baby as Tom, I've got to say that this might very well be the most succinct and accurate post on this board in a long time. He and I often agree and disagree online and offline but this post is so true. Recruit winners, surround yourself with winners. They are far better than kids on all star teams who never won a trophy. Wow! This just made my day.

+1
OU_Country
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Posted: 1/9/2015 11:06 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I arrived about an hour before the last two home games and found a curious practice dimension. Practicing and getting high fives for uncontested dunks seems to be an important part of the warm up for those able to or aspiring to dunk. I saw no one shooting repeatedly from their spot or spots on the floor, no free throws, and no one, except Campbell and Setty bless their hearts who also dunked flamboyantly, practicing jump hooks, drop steps, or other moves around the basket. I may never figure out what is so impressive about tall guys dunking when no one is guarding them, and if that’s what’s important to these guys, I’m sorry to say, Saul has his work cut out for him.
I also get there over an hour before tip and I must not be watching close enough but they seem focused in their warm ups, taking appropriate shots, etc. There may be some dunks but from where sit it seems that doesn't dominate the warm ups.

borna is right about the dunks, although sometimes it is appropriate in certain game situations. But I remember KVK said, "I've got other things to do." When I first started watching college basketball, it was during the Lew Alcindor era and dunks were outlawed. He himself says it helped him develop, and
Coach Wooden agreed.
Dunking gets the crowd excited far more than it wins games.

The conversation about winners is an interesting one when it comes to recruiting. Ideally, yes that's what we'd want, but when you start recruiting kids as soph's and juniors, how do you work with that as a criterion for recruiting?
bn9
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Posted: 1/9/2015 1:26 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
The conversation about winners is an interesting one when it comes to recruiting. Ideally, yes that's what we'd want, but when you start recruiting kids as soph's and juniors, how do you work with that as a criterion for recruiting?
You recruit programs. Doug Taylor and Jordan Dartis come from HS programs that produce State Champions. They were on the same AAU team (along with Kaminski and Simmons.) Block's team went to the State Finals last year. Not sure about Dozier, but looks like he is from a very good post-secondary school.

I like this idea and have bought into it since borna brought it to the board's attention. It looks like Saul believes it also. If you don't have those type of guys, it doesn't matter what the coach does, they won't sacrifice for the team. I think that is where Saul is with this team. To win big at the mid-major level, you have to have nine or ten guys all willing to do the little things that make a difference.
OU_Country
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Posted: 1/9/2015 2:00 PM
bn9 wrote:expand_more
The conversation about winners is an interesting one when it comes to recruiting. Ideally, yes that's what we'd want, but when you start recruiting kids as soph's and juniors, how do you work with that as a criterion for recruiting?
You recruit programs. Doug Taylor and Jordan Dartis come from HS programs that produce State Champions. They were on the same AAU team (along with Kaminski and Simmons.) Block's team went to the State Finals last year. Not sure about Dozier, but looks like he is from a very good post-secondary school.

I like this idea and have bought into it since borna brought it to the board's attention. It looks like Saul believes it also. If you don't have those type of guys, it doesn't matter what the coach does, they won't sacrifice for the team. I think that is where Saul is with this team. To win big at the mid-major level, you have to have nine or ten guys all willing to do the little things that make a difference.
Regardless of the quality of the program, Dozier, in terms of demonstrating maturity, and being well spoken, is an impressive young man.

I'm not as familiar with HS hoops as most are, so I'm not sure which programs are typically successful and which aren't. That said, I feel like a couple kids on the current team have come from that type of background. Perhaps I'm wrong.
OUVan
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Posted: 1/9/2015 2:48 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Regardless of the quality of the program, Dozier, in terms of demonstrating maturity, and being well spoken, is an impressive young man.

I'm not as familiar with HS hoops as most are, so I'm not sure which programs are typically successful and which aren't. That said, I feel like a couple kids on the current team have come from that type of background. Perhaps I'm wrong.
This actually brings up an interesting topic. At least in our area (DC-Baltimore) high school programs are becoming less important than the AAU program. Kids can play for the same AAU coach for years and years and do it year round. So are coaches looking at winning HS programs, AAU programs or both?
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 1/10/2015 12:11 AM
borna, thanks for the post. I think you offer great insight, which to most on this board puts a new perspective on things. I'll be looking for recruits with "rings on their fingers" and high basketball IQs.
mcconnelsville
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Posted: 1/10/2015 11:19 AM
Most everyone on this tread agrees that this team lacks motivation. They simply don't look like a happy team. Most everyone agrees that this team does not have the talent to win the MAC. That said, the players need to have fun. Get them all a number of minutes. Get them having fun and their competitive spirit will surely rise.

We that bleed green will at least support them for their efforts. It will be more fun to watch a team that is trying and competing than watching what we had to watch Wednesday
Joe McKinley
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Posted: 1/10/2015 11:28 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Regardless of the quality of the program, Dozier, in terms of demonstrating maturity, and being well spoken, is an impressive young man.

I'm not as familiar with HS hoops as most are, so I'm not sure which programs are typically successful and which aren't. That said, I feel like a couple kids on the current team have come from that type of background. Perhaps I'm wrong.
This actually brings up an interesting topic. At least in our area (DC-Baltimore) high school programs are becoming less important than the AAU program. Kids can play for the same AAU coach for years and years and do it year round. So are coaches looking at winning HS programs, AAU programs or both?
Less important to who? In what ways? What is becoming more important about AAU/non-school programs?
OUVan
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Posted: 1/10/2015 7:15 PM
Joe McKinley wrote:expand_more
Less important to who? In what ways? What is becoming more important about AAU/non-school programs?
In many instances college recruiters are in communication with the AAU coaches and not the HS coaches. One of the big criticisms of Gary Williams at Maryland was that he wouldn't deal with Curtis Malone who ran the DC Assault AAU program around here. He worked with their HS coaches but it was Malone who was ultimately influencing (and in several highly publicized cases making the decision) where the kids ended up.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/10/2015 8:05 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Less important to who? In what ways? What is becoming more important about AAU/non-school programs?
In many instances college recruiters are in communication with the AAU coaches and not the HS coaches. One of the big criticisms of Gary Williams at Maryland was that he wouldn't deal with Curtis Malone who ran the DC Assault AAU program around here. He worked with their HS coaches but it was Malone who was ultimately influencing (and in several highly publicized cases making the decision) where the kids ended up.
I agree with the premise Van but that Assult program is rife with problem children and good kids as well. If you had the time to go through and look at the individuals I would bet looking at say....Mike beasley and his background vs Keith Bogans and his background you would see that the HS coaches of the kids who were high character guys and team players were nurtured by their HS programs. That 07 version of the Assult was one of the most suspect AAU teams I hae ever seen...they made D1 Greyhounds look a bit like choirboys. In a year with JJ Hixson and WorldWide Renegades, Oakland Soldiers in their Camo Unis, Eric Gordon and Derrick Rose playing together on Chicago Meanstreets the Assult was the one that fought within themselves, showed out with cutesy plays that blew up in their face and had the most audacious behaviours in pregame. I long suspected they probably had the most non qualifiers of anyone on the cicuit that year. Pretty wild when you look at behaviours in the 07 class ranging from Kevin Love to OJ Mayo (who was older than Greg Oden BTW).

While I agree with you that the DC area is building up AAU, I do not think the wealth of schools that are turning out great kids ranging from Dematha to a number of others (and no I am not a fan of Oak Hill as I neer thought they should be counted as a true HS)is still the place where kids are nurtured and taught the game the right way.

OUCountry.....If you do not follow HS nationwide one of the best places to learn is to just look at the USA today daily and skim the scores. They historically have had state by state summaries that you will see the dominant program names pop up regualrly.
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