I agree. Mo will not be an NBA player. He is displaying Ivo-like symptoms of a guy going through the motions his senior year. Bean is a talent who is forcing things and Stevie has officially quit. Toss in Treg looking like he was out of it and our freshmen providing no intensity and we were just plain depressing. You are exactly right. We will be lucky to be .500 in conference. We needed this one.

we lost at home to NIU. No way we even sniff 500.

Tonight was a miserable game.

Bang !! .. Oh baby what a ridiculous game !!

only 7 players play ?

i've never seen anything like that .... unreal game !!

this season will be a good test for Saul's eternal optimism and peppiness.

I think we are going to see a lot of zone defense this season. We couldn't seem to adjust to it tonight.

I'll echo the same sentiments, that was hideous. Atmosphere blah; team in mourning with no sense of fight---my goodness, I don't want to overstate it with it being so recent, but that's "as bad" of an overall evening of OHIO hoops as I can remember.

A few lowlights in addition to the one's mentioned:
*NIU had an offense that required constant motion, constant slashing and a commitment to taking the ball to the rim. Our offense was, well...not sure. Four guys standing around the arch and one guy in the paint who was invisible.

*I gather it's SP philosphy to play man-to-man, but do you surrender a season trying to build that philosophy when your squad can master the basics of that scheme? Can't stop penetration and we don't help on the weak side. Maybe play some zone until you get guys on the team who can actually play man? Awful D!

*Got to lay the blame on the players as they're the guys on the court, but I think SP has to shoulder some too. I'm not saying we have the right pieces and I'm not saying we have great pieces, but the sum of the parts is greater than the output we're getting right now and that's a direct hit on the leadership. This is not a great squad, it may not even be a good squad--but it's better than this.

*Shot selection--horrid. Sense of urgency when down = none. No fight in this dog tonight.

*How does the enthusiasm of "Saul Ball" die so quick with these guys? Seemed like just a few months ago the guys were discretly saying how energized they were with an upbeat coach vs. JC---but they seem more miserable than ever now?

I've been in the camp of "this will all come together soon," and I don't want ot over react, but I'm thinking this could possibly get worse before it gets better? At this point, I have less clue than I did before and I had none before. Man, that was a rough outing.

I'm confident we mostly agree on the problem.

A solution this season is unlikely given the roster. Although, having no point guard worked for Akron last year. Until it didn't.

Mark Montgomery (NIU head coach) had more energy and passion than the entire Bobcat team & staff. Seriously that guy looked like his life depending on every single possession. The NIU team, bench & coaches had more drive and care to win than the entire arena.

It isn't just we aren't shooting well, we just don't have good shooters. I made the point a couple games ago, but when you consider what we lost was all high percentage shooters - Nick Kellogg, Travis Wilkins & Jon Smith. We have replaced their shots with weaker shooters taking weaker shots. It is simple math, our offense is going to suffer.

Coach said it in the post game - Ndour got 2 shots up in the 2nd half. I loved hearing him say at some point you have to recognize your shot isn't working and you might want to consider getting the ball to a guy who is as good as anyone in this league. DEAD ON. He said other things basically alluding to he has instructed them to do this and they just aren't doing it.

Aside from the occasional butterfingers, Ndour & Campbell are treasures. In the right system with the right distributors, there is no better duo in the league. And we are wasting it. It makes me sad considering the optimistic outlook for next year that Ndour won't be able to be a part of it. I'd love to see him get in there with Tony, Kaminski & Simmons.

I don't know the inner details, I just wonder how Taylor, Laster & Campbell in particular are taking it all. Are they aligning themselves with coach and looking optimistically toward the future, or are they being influeced by some unhappy incumbents who may not be too thrilled with the set up?

Remember, Groce was 15-17 in his 1st season. I'm accepting that this could be a rough year, but continue to hope they'll get better and maybe end up a bit like Groce's second year (9 seed champs).

Andrew,

I was looking at the similarities between Groce's first team and Saul's. Led in scoring by two seniors and a freshmen, head-scratching losses and seemingly times of disinterest amongst the squad, etc. The main difference I found was leadership. I haven't seen any from anyone on this year's team and I'm afraid the two who are, or should be, are on the bench waiting for next year, and the other is still finding his way in his rookie season. Other than that, I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.

100% agree. I said in the chat last night that if Campbell can develop a constistent 10-12 foot shot he is a 1st team All-MAC player. If D.J. Cooper is on this team he's one this year. I see people talking about Mo not working hard enough consistently and I'm not buying it. But I do see a player or two who know that on certain possessions there is zero chance the ball finds it's way into their hands anywhere near the basket.

To take that point further. When Groce was Here the first of July in 08 I asked a simple question to which he answered something about recruiting winners...I said what do you mean? A simple question came back "how many rings in the locker room?" I said 2....on one guy. He promplty went out and got winners. DJ won at Seton, Kinney at Centennial, Horne at Cincy, Nick at Columbus....all from programs that taught winning and throw in McKinley as a walk on from Scioto. Growing up in a winning culture is important. Leon and Tilly were great players but they never won at lower levels and were not part of a tradition. That is gone now. It is impalpable but guys who have never had it and NOT been hungry to get there again will never understand it. Read the bios of the current guys. I think Saul will find those winners but right now he is dealing with an animal he is having a hard time getting a handle on....Guys like Nick and Deej et al knew how to win and from day one there was a difference in the locker room. Groce's first season was markedly different because he did not have guys who understood winning and the passion, desire and excitement that it brings....as well as the urgency needed.... Saul is in the same boat IMHO.