Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: KSU: Non Expert Analysis
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perimeterpost
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Posted: 2/22/2015 11:26 AM
JC loved to pull a guy the second he made a mistake and grill him on the sidelines for it. Some people respond to that style of coaching, other people (like Ivo) collapse, and some just walk away (like J Smith). I personally don't like that style of leadership and am glad we have someone like Saul Phillips as head coach.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/22/2015 12:29 PM
Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks.

you are dead to me..... THere is no BBIQ on earth that supports this statement

I rarely call people out but this line of thought deserves to be explored.

If Tony were only standing on the edge and not doig work down low playing both the inside AND out I would see some credence to your statement but if you been to that many games and sre still making those inane statements I am truly worried.

Point out the people who should be taking them

19-78

24-67

13-37

24-81

I am not much a expert on 3 ball shooters but I can do the math in my head (you might want to use a calculator and fill in % )and figure out who I want shooting. BTW 2 are guards and 2 are Bigs....just in case the BBIQ running around up there in your head says bigs should not shoot 3s and guards should continue jacking them up.
Last Edited: 2/22/2015 12:31:35 PM by bornacatfan
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 2/22/2015 1:22 PM
What if next year's roster, offense, and summer skills improvement permits Tony to dribble penetrate when he catches the ball on the arc?

Next level. That's what.
mcbin
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Posted: 2/22/2015 3:31 PM
Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks. It doesn't make sense, any way you slice it this team is more talented than their record. I've missed 2 home games this year and can only listen to away games so there's alot of basketball I don't get to see. Maybe all that they are doing is part of the plan but to me it's been ugly.
I agree it makes me cringe when Tony shoots threes. I know he's the best or second best at it on the team, but it still doesn't seem right. But I do know it is part of the 'plan', SP has said as much. It's not that it's Tony shooting the three, it's that we have resigned to have little/no game anywhere near the basket if our best/second big guy is at the perimeter. However I think Tony/Mo getting very limited touches down low is not what is planned.

And I could not agree more that this team is more talented than their record. Maybe why I still hold out hope that we'll get it together at the last minute and make a run in Cleveland.
Last Edited: 2/22/2015 3:35:24 PM by mcbin
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/22/2015 5:14 PM
It is not like Tony is hanging out on the periphery. You guys make it sound like he is living on the edges waiting for the ball.

he does his work in close and rolls off a screen or in the offensive set to get a good look from the edge. Him making the most of an open look out there unclogs the middle and allows guards to penetrate. It also pulls his man away from the rim so he can neither defend nor rebound. Good gosh...that is the way the game is played these days. No one in Wisky yells at Kaminsky to "get back in the paint" His ability to stretch the floor in addition to his play in the paint is why they are so tough.

TC is averaging 7.2 RBs a game and has 47 off rbs compared to Mo's 57. Next highest on the team is 30.

If I knew sitting down in the paint waiting to see a pass from guys who are shooting and missing not seeing the how hard I am working I might be rolling off a few screens to the wing and making myself available. What's to lose? You ain't gonna see the ball in the post.
stub
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Posted: 2/22/2015 6:29 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I think Billy Hahn's team were worse to watch. And Dale Bandy's last team.
I think Billy Ball came in last in the MAC the year they were picked first.


And regarding Bandy's last year, at least it was fun watching him slam chairs.
Last Edited: 2/22/2015 6:35:03 PM by stub
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/22/2015 6:50 PM
stub wrote:expand_more
I think Billy Hahn's team were worse to watch. And Dale Bandy's last team.
I think Billy Ball came in last in the MAC the year they were picked first.


And regarding Bandy's last year, at least it was fun watching him slam chairs.
And nobody could sweat like Billy could sweat. (He was not hesitant to admit to this talent.)
OUs LONG Driver
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Posted: 2/22/2015 6:53 PM
The idea that height/size has anything to do with shooting ability is at the top of my pet peeve list right along with pointing out the disparity in # of fouls called per team.

If you can shoot from distance efficiently, do it. Simple as that, doesn't matter if you are 5'-5" or 7'-5".

Another couple reasons why this doesn't concern me...TC isn't throwing up hardly any that are contested (see Willis, Bean) or off balance (see Willis, Bean) and he also isn't shooting long 2's (worst shot in the game).
Cielec321
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Posted: 2/22/2015 7:33 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
It is not like Tony is hanging out on the periphery. You guys make it sound like he is living on the edges waiting for the ball.

he does his work in close and rolls off a screen or in the offensive set to get a good look from the edge. Him making the most of an open look out there unclogs the middle and allows guards to penetrate. It also pulls his man away from the rim so he can neither defend nor rebound. Good gosh...that is the way the game is played these days. No one in Wisky yells at Kaminsky to "get back in the paint" His ability to stretch the floor in addition to his play in the paint is why they are so tough.

TC is averaging 7.2 RBs a game and has 47 off rbs compared to Mo's 57. Next highest on the team is 30.

If I knew sitting down in the paint waiting to see a pass from guys who are shooting and missing not seeing the how hard I am working I might be rolling off a few screens to the wing and making myself available. What's to lose? You ain't gonna see the ball in the post.
Tony should stay underneath and get more rebounds from all the 3's our guards are missing, maybe that would solve it all
oldkatz
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Posted: 2/22/2015 7:35 PM
Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
It is not like Tony is hanging out on the periphery. You guys make it sound like he is living on the edges waiting for the ball.

he does his work in close and rolls off a screen or in the offensive set to get a good look from the edge. Him making the most of an open look out there unclogs the middle and allows guards to penetrate. It also pulls his man away from the rim so he can neither defend nor rebound. Good gosh...that is the way the game is played these days. No one in Wisky yells at Kaminsky to "get back in the paint" His ability to stretch the floor in addition to his play in the paint is why they are so tough.

TC is averaging 7.2 RBs a game and has 47 off rbs compared to Mo's 57. Next highest on the team is 30.

If I knew sitting down in the paint waiting to see a pass from guys who are shooting and missing not seeing the how hard I am working I might be rolling off a few screens to the wing and making myself available. What's to lose? You ain't gonna see the ball in the post.
Tony should stay underneath and get more rebounds from all the 3's our guards are missing, maybe that would solve it all

Rebounds from missed threes seldom fall into the paint near the hoop.
BobcatSports
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Posted: 2/22/2015 7:37 PM
Tony's 3's appear to be measured and in the flow of the his game. Wake me when he stops attacking the rim and starts to rely solely on turn-around fade-away jump shots. Tony and an occasional 3 ball is the least of this team's worries.
JSF
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Posted: 2/22/2015 9:02 PM
Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
It is not like Tony is hanging out on the periphery. You guys make it sound like he is living on the edges waiting for the ball.

he does his work in close and rolls off a screen or in the offensive set to get a good look from the edge. Him making the most of an open look out there unclogs the middle and allows guards to penetrate. It also pulls his man away from the rim so he can neither defend nor rebound. Good gosh...that is the way the game is played these days. No one in Wisky yells at Kaminsky to "get back in the paint" His ability to stretch the floor in addition to his play in the paint is why they are so tough.

TC is averaging 7.2 RBs a game and has 47 off rbs compared to Mo's 57. Next highest on the team is 30.

If I knew sitting down in the paint waiting to see a pass from guys who are shooting and missing not seeing the how hard I am working I might be rolling off a few screens to the wing and making myself available. What's to lose? You ain't gonna see the ball in the post.
Tony should stay underneath and get more rebounds from all the 3's our guards are missing, maybe that would solve it all
Stick to your guns, no matter how bad their aim.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/22/2015 10:59 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Stick to your guns, no matter how bad their aim.
Sounding more and more like a Texan every day. Did you say that with drawl? ;-)
GoCats105
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Posted: 2/23/2015 7:35 AM
If Tony gets to the point where he can pick and pop a three or set a back screen and then flash to the arc for an open shot, this argument will be laughable. There's a reason Saul is letting him shoot these, actually two reasons. (1) He's good at it and (2) to get him ready for the future. One of the best three-point shooters in the NCAA recently was 6'9"...Doug McDermott. You don't think of him as a big man but that dude was huge.
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/23/2015 9:12 AM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks. It doesn't make sense, any way you slice it this team is more talented than their record. I've missed 2 home games this year and can only listen to away games so there's alot of basketball I don't get to see. Maybe all that they are doing is part of the plan but to me it's been ugly.
Again, why does it not make sense for Tony, who is a good 3 pt shooter, to shoot 3's? Do you not realize how well he is shooting or do you just have something against big men shooting 3's all together?

Some of the best teams in the country feature big men who shoot 3's. Wisconsin with Kaminski, Gonzaga with Wiltjer, and No. Iowa with Seth Tuttle. It's 2015 you have to get used to it.



GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
If Tony gets to the point where he can pick and pop a three or set a back screen and then flash to the arc for an open shot, this argument will be laughable. There's a reason Saul is letting him shoot these, actually two reasons. (1) He's good at it and (2) to get him ready for the future. One of the best three-point shooters in the NCAA recently was 6'9"...Doug McDermott. You don't think of him as a big man but that dude was huge.


I'm glad I read through the whole thread before responding, because Frank Kaminski and McDermott were two guys I was going to reference. And if you don't like tall guys shooting three's, well, your head is gonna explode next year when both of our starting "bigs" are shooting them regularly.

Adding to that thought, if you want to see the style Saul is aiming for (sort of) look no father than the Wisconsin Badgers, who have two bigs that shoot a bunch from outside, as well as inside.


This year's bunch has flaws, that's for sure. Tony isn't one of them. Other than maybe a slight lack of lateral quickness, his game is progressing very, very well in my book.

Mcbin and I were discussing what DJ could have done with having Tony on his team....and what we hope Simmons will do next year with Tony, and all the new faces.
JSF
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Posted: 2/23/2015 9:32 AM
Just imagine how much more effective Dirk Nowitzki would've been if he stayed in the paint.
Last Edited: 2/23/2015 9:35:04 AM by JSF
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/23/2015 6:53 PM
As an aside, the first long-range shooter that I ever saw was tall guy on Marshall's team circa 1968. I don't recall his name right now, but I'd know it if I heard it (or herd it ;-). This guy regularly shot from NBA three point range, but he only got credit for two points. He was at or approaching 6-10. Does anyone recall his name?
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